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Tombola


Kamisha

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The PBC Tombola has passed and you can see the [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/9247-tombola-winners/page__pid__80716#entry80716"]results here[/url] but that's not what I am here to talk about. Other than the winners and a lot of fun after words it is safe to say that there is going to be another Tombola and it is also rather likely that its going to be Western Union payment method. It is just a great way to get the community together but then again there is an ugly side to the tombola that showed its self.

An interesting Phenomenon arose and that was the payment amounts. For example I who payed $100 as one payment there where a large amount of people repeating the minimum payment that in fact likely in some cases surpassed mine. Now I am fine with people spending money on a game. I do it occasionally but in order to just get the extra tickets I find it some what morally wrong. I'm not going to say Mur said anything because it is always dangerous to take somebodies words out of context but I will go as far as to say he did express his disappointment with that behavior. So he wants to implement a new rule to sort of regulate this.

However it is likely that there will be a couple thing overlooked and we don't want to ruin the spirit of the tombola. Likely the next one wont take place until sometime after the April MD party so there is plenty of time the theorize as to what to do.

Now there are a couple things to keep in mind. One of the main parts of the tombola is anybody can participate with any amount of payment. Meaning a person who can only afford to give up 10 dollars has a chance as well as the person willing to part with 100 dollars. There has to be an incentive to pay maybe a little more as that's one of the key roles of the tombola. Pay server costs and advertising bills. There also has to be a reason for people who are not top payees to show up. I think that's all of them.

The reason that I post this instead of leaving it just up to mur is because of two reasons the first being that mur cant account for every little tiny possible loop hole. Nobody really can or has the time. The second one being is mur is also trying to insure fairness during the tombola that's why he brakes up the payment by methods and once again he cant account for every little detail and no one person can.

So that's it. I have some ideas though I come across barriers so i will keep them to my self until I figure them out. Anyways lets see what you got and what problems you might find.
Now its 2AM and I have to get up at 10. So I will leave you to it. I may add a poll later in order to host some of the more popular ideas.

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[quote name='Kamisha' timestamp='1300258610' post='80730']
Now there are a couple things to keep in mind. One of the main parts of the tombola is anybody can participate with any amount of payment. Meaning a person who can only afford to give up 10 dollars has a chance as well as the person willing to part with 100 dollars. There has to be an incentive to pay maybe a little more as that's one of the key roles of the tombola. Pay server costs and advertising bills. There also has to be a reason for people who are not top payees to show up. I think that's all of them.
[/quote]

My idea would be to give out just one ticket per paying player (regardless of amount). I guess more players will take part if they know that the chances to win are equal. I also guess that the additional money which comes in just because of the tombola might be even higher.

[quote name='Kamisha' timestamp='1300258610' post='80730']
The reason that I post this instead of leaving it just up to mur is because of two reasons the first being that mur cant account for every little tiny possible loop hole. Nobody really can or has the time. The second one being is mur is also trying to insure fairness during the tombola that's why he brakes up the payment by methods and once again he cant account for every little detail and no one person can.
[/quote]

I never understood why fairness is ensured by braking up tombolas by payment methods. You could also break up the tombola by first letters of players (say first tombola a-n, second tombola m-z). What I would like to see is one (well many ;) tombola for all payment methods even if it requires more preparation.

However, its the fun that counts, isn't it? As long as the tombola attracts many players every solution is good. :)

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Having credits should be a motivation by itself.

The motivation for more credits is being able to purchase more from the MDShop.

IMO, the Tombola is just a bonus.

I agree that all purchasers should have only 1 ticket, no matter the amount or the frequency of purchase.

I believe that Mur will be starting a shop for credits spent. Another motivation to have more credits.

I like Tombola because it is an event that brings players together, but the Tombola should not be about who has the most money.

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How about everyone who paid up the minimal amount of credits for Tombola, gets the equal chance for the main prize as anyone else who participates in the tombola (no matter the amount of money), while the biggest spenders also get secondary prizes for investing the most money during tombola... Like top 3 spenders. I think that would be correct for main-prize-equal-chance concept and it would be correct to those who invest more money

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[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1300271119' post='80736']
How about everyone who paid up the minimal amount of credits for Tombola, gets the equal chance for the main prize as anyone else who participates in the tombola (no matter the amount of money), while the biggest spenders also get secondary prizes for investing the most money during tombola... Like top 3 spenders. I think that would be correct for main-prize-equal-chance concept and it would be correct to those who invest more money
[/quote]
I've also been thinking along this line of thought, mainly in relation to the winners that aren't random but that mur picks himself.

The other option is to have every $5 increment be worth 1 ticket (for paypal Tombola)/$10 increment be worth 1 ticket (PBC Tombola)/$5 over the first $50 be worth one ticket (Western Union). This should reduce the amount of people paying the minimal amount upto the amount they would otherwise have spent (A practice that I admit I am guilty of).

One thing that I DON'T think would be a good idea is giving extra tickets to subscribers (for subscription payments), as this will lead people to join and cancel subscriptions just for tombolas. Subscription has its own benefits, which are quite impressive, and don't need any further benefit at all.

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I'm sorry I did not get what the concern is.

Is it that players got 1 ticket for each payment made? If so, and if you want to incite players to spend more, just give 1 ticket for each 10$ (or whatever amount seems ok) spent as Kyphis suggested. But i probably got it wrong and the problem must be elsewhere!

The point I personnaly don't understand with the tombola is: why is it splitted by payment method? Usually in similar games going for incentive you get either a tombola for whoever spent cash (whatever the payment method is) or a tombola specifically sponsored by a payment site (aka PBC or paypal or....) for whoever used their site for a shop payment.

I got the feeling here, that paying players are segregated based on their payment method, and I can't see the benefits for MD owners.

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[quote name='Passant the Weak' timestamp='1300296939' post='80752']
...The point I personnaly don't understand with the tombola is: why is it splitted by payment method? Usually in similar games going for incentive you get either a tombola for whoever spent cash (whatever the payment method is) or a tombola specifically sponsored by a payment site (aka PBC or paypal or....) for whoever used their site for a shop payment.

I got the feeling here, that paying players are segregated based on their payment method, and I can't see the benefits for MD owners.
[/quote]

The split for payment method is supposed to segregate players by the payment method available to them. For example I can pay only by the method of pay by cash and if I go out of my way western union. I am barred from PayPal due to my lack of a checking account or a credit card. Every person here I believe is barred or removed from some of these methods. There for in order to order out fairness each person paying a different way is given equal chances on the same gift. That is why this time an order was not really established because all the main prizes and suggested prizes where open and order should not matter who chooses what.

I don't totally understand the method my self. It may be because it was just limited to PayPal the first time. So it will even out by giving everybody in there payment plan group a chance them mash it all together. I really don't know so I will leave it at that. If Mur wants to explain it feather or better he can, if not we just have to accept that as well.

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As I'm not fluent nor advanced in English I'll try to point my thoughts one by one.

1 - EVERY player, no exception, is allowed to have one ticket for the Tombola (Everyone have the same chances, it's a lucky game... isn't it, Mur?)

2 - Secondary prizes by category: Like... users with the most credits bought gain one new ticket for these prizes... let's say... the TOP 5 or 10 at buying credits can participate to another 3 prizes. (It's fairness, isn't it?)

3 - You can make other secondary categories as you wish, don't get so closed minded, I know many people here can suggest at least a random category for each Tombola. (That would be really interesting... and random. I like it.)

4 - If you go this way... you could make the Tombola for every type of payment, not just limited to one, as everyone that payed would equal to 1 ticket. Only the secondary categories would take more time.

5 - Booby prizes Tombola: The ones that didn't win anything and the ones present at the moment gains a ticket for this one, it may have few good prizes and lots of bad prizes... you could make the prize random, just generate name every prize a number and randomize it so it would be the prize for that person. (Includes everyone, not getting chance to choose the prize but you could get something GOOD with a little luck)

Well, I think that it could be more elaborated... though my thoughts that THIS would be a really nice Tombola for fairness and makes it keeps the soul of a real lucky game. What do you all think?

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The tombola is like a regular lottery. So those who pay more (contribute more money to the game) have a higher chance of winning the tombola.

I think it was meant to be this way.. is it fair that the people who pay more money to the game have a higher chance of getting rewarded for it? I think so.

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i wonder... if next time i keep to the advertised 3 winners method and period. Would everyone be happier? Because now i gave prizes to absolutely everybody participating in the tombola and somehow it seems to me you are still...'unsatisfied'.

Maybe its because after 20hours of work i get a little angry , or maybe i am right, idk, but for now i think this 100% winning rate wont happen again.


Anyway, I couls't read all of this (sorry about that) but i will answer to the few passages i did read.

- tombola per payment method is fair because some people have no way of participating to the tombola even if they can support md through an other payment method. Shifting around from paypal to paybycash to whatever will be next, not only gives a chance to everyone but also changes the odds of the tombola. Some payment methods are rearely used, so those have a huge win chance. If i mix all together it will be always the same big amount of people that could get a ticket, again, and again.

Ok, lets not call it fair.. i am kind of bored to justify why i think something is fair or not in md, take it as it is, you will defenetly enjoy it more if you do. Probably then you will understand what my point was.


I was thinking to make fixed clear and written rules for the next tombola, but wait...who is forgetting how things work here? me or you or both of us? You will have to trust me, because my honest intention is to keep things ...interesting (lets not say fair). I am basically uncoruptible and just to be sure i added the "highest payer" category to avoid any possible temptation that someone says one day, "here is 1000$ give me a wining spot". I gave random prizes to those that didnt win anything, granulated the remaining ones and put in other extractions and other and other and then in the end i called them "consolation prizes". Its actually totaly unfair, but if i hear one of you complaining why an other one won while he won also i will ripp his head off. Envy on a festive event simply doesn't fit in my notion of morality.

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I thought this topic was about trying to figure out a way to decrease the number of people who used the minimal payment option to increase the number of tickets they got, and as a result to decrease the amount of cash that was lost to transaction fees >.>

I don't really see anyone here complaining "Hurr, tombola isn't fair!" >.>

No one is complaining about the methods you have used, to segregate the tombola's by payment type (while this confused me until the event, even I think it is a great idea to keep things fair, now that I understand it).

[NOTE: I am only commenting on what is in this topic, since you made your post here and therefor seem to be saying it about the people here. If people are saying that in the Realm, I haven't heard it, but I agree that it is unfair of them to do so. These aren't prizes after all, but gifts]

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Personally I can understand where Mur is coming from though. I mean if I put together an event that was meant to bring a community together. If I organized gifts and brought out something for everybody to who came to leave with something and somebody comes out and calls me out saying that they didn't show up but they demand retribution it would be unfair to include that person because then everybody who didn't show up I would have to treat equally.

I see now that I might have been wrong to start this topic. I may have had good intentions but like most things it eventually turns into a blood feud.

COULD A MOD PLEASE CLOSE THIS TOPIC before this turns into something that is no longer within control.

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