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I became an alt....


TTLexceeded

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Well here is the thing that happened. I was away for a week and i had really slow internet there. Also i had an "accident" and couldnt log in for about 4 days. I asked my friend Daes to log in and use the free credits because i did not want to lose all my progress in the game. Now i am his alt. Meaning i cannot attack him. One important reason i play the game is because he plays with me. I would not like to stop the game or start a new character because of this incident. I didnt really know i was violating a rule until now with what i did. I want to sincerely apologise and ask with all my heart to change this. I dont really know if its the correct sideforum to post this. Please reply asap. Again i am sorry
With Regards
TTL

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Sadly, this is a side effect of the precautions to prevent alt abuses. There isn't really anything you can do about it now (unless you happen to both get a new internet provider and new computer, and even then it might not work), however don't quit just because of this. Combat is only one part of this game, and there are plenty of people to interact with, not just one friend.

PS: You haven't committed a crime, and you aren't going to get thrown in gaol for it ;) It's an automated restriction to prevent abuses, and while it has its downsides, for the most part it makes the game far better.

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Hmmm just to clarify...
1. The technology does not allow for manual override?
2. Manual override function is a low priority improvement and has not been implemented yet?
3. If one request was honored, 100 would follow?
(edit: 4: It is the policy, accept it)
Which one is the answer? It seems to be an overkill penalizing many honest players with irl MD friends (well, and not enough care/ knowledge) and leaving other people (mobiles, dynamic networks) free to do as they wish

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A manual override is definetely possible... And besides that if i wanted to cheat i could use proxes and other things to alt abuse the game. The thing is that while i play with this irl friend combat is an important thing as well. I want to experiment a lot and he is the only person i want to experiment with since we talk about combat in md (irl life) all the time. I doubt it has monitored my computer code. Its probably just an IP thing. All i am asking is for an override.... I doubt 100 will follow. I also had a pretty good reason for not beeing able to log in ( i was beat up by cops in a demonstration and had to stay in the hospital.) I doubt nothing can be done. Sometimes i think rules should be bended (or even broken). Thats all.

P.S. I am pretty sure that if i wanted i could reverse it (illegaly)

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1. The technology does not allow for manual override?

ANYTHING can be changed in the database as long as you have access to it and you know what to change and how to change it.



2. Manual override function is a low priority improvement and has not been implemented yet?

It's not even an option so asking if it has a priority is useless.



3. If one request was honored, 100 would follow?


What do you think?



@TTL*: threatening that you'll leave or that you can reverse it "illegally" will not help.
If you want to break the rules or just bend them then go ahead. Just be sure that you are prepared to face the consequences if you will get caught. Nobody said it's illegal to bend/broke the rules.
I am sorry for the reason that made you not being able to log in but sometimes life is harder for some then for others...

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(just a side remark ad. 1: If the game is supported using direct DB access and people who 'have access to it and you know what to change and how to change it' then it's a miracle it's not crashing twice a month... That would explain, why such a request would be outright rejected, though...)

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It was not my intention to threaten to leave. Nor to break the rules. I just said i can override it to make the point that it can be changed. Leaving is just what i will do if it is not fixxed. Its not a threat its just a decision. All i am asking is to consider bending the rules for this incident. If your reply dst is the official reply then thank you for your time. Sorry if my last post was confusing. I say it again i have no intention of bending the rules my self. Thats why i asked it here. All i want is to know if there is any chance of you bending the rules. (Leaving is not a threat its merely my decision if my request is not granded )
Apologys for any misunderstandings.
TTL

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[quote name='xrieg' timestamp='1296733216' post='78401']
(just a side remark ad. 1: If the game is supported using direct DB access and people who 'have access to it and you know what to change and how to change it' then it's a miracle it's not crashing twice a month... That would explain, why such a request would be outright rejected, though...)
[/quote]
Most... functions of any type... use a database >.>

There are very few (as a %) sites that don't base almost all variables off of a database >.>

I don't get why you are saying doing the normal thing would cause it to be susceptible to frequent crashing? Or even its relevance to the topic >.>




More on topic: Mur's alt tracking network is pretty thorough, and proxies and the like never seem to have any success in beating it. If you want to be silly feel free, but as dst already said, be ready for any consequences (for example, permanent bans on all "your" accounts, which would include your friends accounts since they are marked as alts.)

Far as the combat experimentation goes... there used to be a section on the main page which suggested a way to play the combat system offline. It was pretty neat, and I wish it was still up (I played it with quite a lot of people, actually. Brought in a few friends to MD). See if someone can post the rules for that, it has the explanation for how to setup any type of fight you want to experiment with. Hopefully that will address your combat aspect of the issue.

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Well, the issue at hand is...you willingly told the other person to do this for you, so instead of asking us perhaps you should have thought about the consequences of your own actions first?

Admittedly, it doesnt help anyone that we bar account interaction like this, but the filter is there because of abuse that has happened in the past.

What dst said isn't the official meaning of the highest instance (since the game owner/creator actually does participate here), but I do not think he would make an exception for you like this.

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@TTL*: My reply is not an official one. I have no power to decide on such matters. My opinion is based on personal experience in this game*. If you wish to have an official opinion ask one form Mur or the council.

@xrieg:
[quote](just a side remark ad. 1: If the game is supported using direct DB access and people who 'have access to it and you know what to change and how to change it' then it's a miracle it's not crashing twice a month... That would explain, why such a request would be outright rejected, though...)[/quote]

Just a side remark: If I were you I would not make such remarks without knowing how things work or how the db is supported/accessed/by whom/with what purpose/etc. Cool?

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1. I was not informed nor did i read about this rule (maybe its my fault but since i begun i have done so much reading and its difficult to find these stuff out).
2. I always believed that the rules exist to protect nor to destroy people in the game.
3. As i , by my own fault, made a mistake requesting this from my friend i am also asking to be granded a secon chance (even if i have to create a new character)
4. If the oficial reply is i cannot be granded this favour then i will accept it.
5. Way back when there was no wish shop people could wish many many things and they would happen (i know that from people i met at md), why cant i now make a wish and take this restriction back? (the wishes involved replaying the story, renaming etc etc).
6. If other people have the same problem i have i think its only fair to be given them a secon chance as well.
7. "Bossing" around without having the athaurity of giving an official reply just for the fact that you know more because you have been here more is really not something you should be proud of. I am sorry shadowseeker that i do not think every consequence on every act i perform like you probably do. I am guilty destroy my fun in the game....

P.S. I dont even know how to ask mur of an official reply or the council i thought posting it no the forum will give me an official reply

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I was reffering to shadowseeker when i said bossing around not to your reply and your help. I said thank you for that already. I just dont like the attitude of shadowseeker saying "I am more experienced than you, i know the rules. Its your fault. You should have thought about the consequenses". I respect you dst as you tried to tell me that it is unlikely to change. Bossing around was not reffering to you... Read it more carefully. (i dont want to ruin your good mood nor your willingness to help me).

P.S. I just thought that if you cannot give me an official reply then shadowseeker cant give me an official reply either.

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You openly allowed another played access to your account to log in, Its happened before and it will happen again. However precedent has shown that the alt warning will not be removed from anyone.

Proxies wont work, nor changing your IP or nuffink, Iv tried them myself. The game knows all.

Im sorry, but i very much doubt it will change since it hasnt been done before.

I advise anyone else to just leave this here as a reminder, If anyone with "authority" wishs to comment then they will. Otherwise it should be left like the other topics.



PS: Xrieg, you are trying to help but your statements about things without knowing anything technical are merely ludicrous and factually wrong.

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What I gave you was the inofficial official meaning: I cannot say "Mur said XXX" because I haven't heard him saying it nor would i bother him for such a thing, so I said it in the closest manner to it, basically following every other opinion here and saying you have no chance.

It's not that we mods like to pick on newbies, it's that we all think the same thing and bothered to reply.

If you dont like me bossing around here, fine, then next time add a disclaimer to your topic asking that you do not wish an answer from me, once I read that I'll ignore it.


Well, that having been said, [council], try that email. But I am willing to bet quite a fortune you will not receive the clearance.

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[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1296756837' post='78420']
PS: Xrieg, you are trying to help but your statements about things without knowing anything technical are merely ludicrous and factually wrong.
[/quote]
I certainly hope that the remark that 'ANYTHING can be changed in the database (...)' is not the way everyday MD support works :-P Glad to hear it is not.
It seems my 'if' was overlooked - I would never presume to make definite statement about the product without seeing a line of code/ documentation.

PS please no capitals in my name :-( it's xrieg

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Ignorance of the law does not exempt you from it.

Everything that has been said here is pure speculation, this is your only option: send an email to the address shadowseeker posted and put forth your request.

It is not unheard of that the alt status was reset, in the past the alts stats of all accounts were cleared, but I will tell you now that it is not going to happen soon or as a 'feature'.

This goes for all players that get other players to log them in: It might not be illegal but you will become an alt and suffer the consequences. As such you will lose many options, some well known and some not too obvious. Active days actually have a meaning and it is in your best interest to keep it only by yourself.

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  • 3 weeks later...

My Sister Icedrgon and i had that problem as well and we can no longer fight one another in creture battles not even when we created an alt, even though we used seperate accounts. so instead we fight others and have moved on, even though its unfortunate.

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people have been override in the past but there is also an announcement that i can quote here.

[quote]
[2010-08-01 21:24:09 - Stage 10]
To avoid confusion, unwanted penalties and such, avoid giving wp to work colegues, people playing md from same computer or network, brothers, sisters, etc. If my alt checker sais you are alts, you are alts. period. I don't care if you are not but you look like you are. If the alt checker sais you are it means you can abuse same things alts can. So that you know, i can determine with a shocking precision if you are just using the same computer or if you are indeed two different people using same computer. There is however, like in everything, a chance it is wrong. .. to be clear .. that chance does not count in your favor. Avoid geting penalised and you will be fine. If you get in jail for something you didnt do but you cant prove you didnt, its your bad luck.[/quote]

So that's it your stuck. If you end up in jail sure you could fight getting out of jail (ONLY) but that didn't happen and since you didn't abuse it likely wont end up there.

Also you cant complain that you haven't seen it. Mur has had it painfully clear that you watch all announcements and read the restrictions. By failing to comply to that and by signing up you are accepting all rules regulations and ect. Anything that happens after signing up is your own fault and although it may seem unfair it is the only way to obtain and maintain a stable world.

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Being an alt isn't so bad, provided your expectations are reasonable. I play one of my two alts (Keith) so heavily it sometimes seems like my main. I can absolutely guarantee you that living with alt restrictions will not deprive you of anything MD has to offer.

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I will try to explain this in a more general way valid for everybody. For the crimes of a few, rules are created to affect and protect the many. Now please find your place in the following scenery and tell me how could i, or an automated system, differentiate between true and false when some people do this:


- abusing alts but pretend 'honestly' that they are not alts and act like victims of the system when in fact they are one and the same but just bluffing
- when one case can be considered wrong alt association and #fixed# , everybody will swarm to claim that too.
- It is not fair to lock two accounts for one association forever, but technically it is difficut to time such a lock, or even impossible to do otherwise without allowing alt abuse but only on certain dates

My alternative solution is a project i am working on (playerdetective.com) that in theory has a way to determine alts with an unbelievable accuracy and is able even to isolate two or more people using the same computer. Even so, any system has an error percentage and the people that will go in that percentage will still be dissapointed.

Conceptual solution
due to how md is designed to be, the ultimate medicine for any problem is cyclicity principle...to speak in game terms. This means in this particular case the following

set alt association dynamical , increasing lock time but allowing a cooldown time. This will add cyciclity to the abuse process but will not be syncronized process and this means cheating will be possible in segments and not in groups... but... md is not made to sustain cyclic processes, conceptually speaking. Evntually the spotted alt pairs will syncronize and it will end up with bulk abuse periods followed by inactivity periods. Not to mention the enormous effort to make the altchecker in this dynamic way


Human check alternative
a comitee of judges with jurisdiction over alt associations only, like a guild able to clear alt logs based on words and reason. Penalty for if you lie this commitee is permanent ban/account rmoval. Checks would involve disclosing personal informationa and presenting proof that two distinc people are using same computer. There can be time logs to check if those people where online at the same time and that would mean you lied. Checking the logs automatically is very difficult at this moment, not to mention they are incomplete, but a human look would spot abnormalities


i thought about this many times, because playing between friends is not alt abuse, playing with yourself is....how to solve it without a concept change that would affect everything?

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