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[u]@ Rhaegar:[/u] I did not betray the Savelites, I betrayed YOU and You Alone

And it's the best thing I ever did in MD
I'm Proud of it!

The other stuff in all your posts is not worth replying too

[u]@ Jazira: [/u] Don't let the ones that can't get over the past bother you, you're doing a good job.

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[quote name='Ivorak' timestamp='1284161051' post='68176']
I believe this is the only attempt to be constructive, but I'm afraid it doesn't make any sense. Why should someone act before thinking? (As I think you seem to have stated.)

I think Jazira is putting forth a solid effort, even if I disagree with a few things on a personal, or emotional, level. I would just like to bring up one concern: where is the "church" in the Savelites Church? My understanding of a church is that it is a place (or congregation) for worship. I see that you plan sermons, but none have the element of worship.

If you are intentionally minimizing religious elements, could you clarify your intent?
It means exactly what is says. To me it seems that she, and others, have all acted before thinking about what the alliance is truely about. I also think that Jazira has put a lot of effort in her ideas, and I respect that, but I just think the ideas should be based on the history of the church.

[u] @ Jazira[/u]
I am sure there are many people that can help you with finding out about the Churchs history, you just need to ask [i][u]lots[/u][/i] of people.

[quote name='Firsanthalas' timestamp='1284194433' post='68182']
I am kinda sick of hearing this rhetoric about Rhaegar and the past.
Lets give a few history lessons shall we.
First up, Rhaegar was let into the alliance along with other people when Grido and Z tried to rebuild it. He did not rebuild it from nothing like Jazira is now attempting to do.
Secondly, Rhaegar himself seemed to change the direction and ideas for the Church on several occassions. At one point he started to take up residence in the Tribunal Temple and he spoke about using it as a base for the Savels. That seemed to just peter out after a while. Then he wanted the Savels to be historians in Loreroot, then he started the avatar shop. There is more, but they are the big ones I can think of right off the top of my head.
Thirdly, he's a blockhead with as much subtlety as a bull in a china shop. He has zero tact and succeeded in royally getting up a lot of people's noses with his crap. He still does. He had an issue with me from day 1. Why? Because he listened to and believed venomous crap that was still boiling over from old wounds in Loreroot. No matter what happened, he never ever got past that. In short, he was a source of conflict within Loreroot and outside it too.
I put up with Rhaegar for as long as I did for one simple fact. I was trying to be fair. I did not want my personal feelings towards him to cloud my judgement and I wanted to give him a chance. Many people felt that I was too soft and I believe that Rhaegar himself started to believe that I was somehow weak and he could push me as much as he wanted. Wrong on that score.
He's a control freak. He seemed incapable of delegating tasks and only seemed to want to work with people when he felt like it or if he wanted to. By and large he showed little interest in working with anyone outside the Savels.
He openly fostered a belief in at least some of the Savels, that if they were in the alliance before the kingship elections, then they didn't have to recognise the king. For any leader of any group in Loreoot to do such a thing is unacceptable. I also found out that things I said concerning his members were either not passed on or twisted. And he insisted that he deal with his members, not me.

Activity of the Savels...
Towards the end of his tenure, there was little or none. Most of the members seemed inactive and at least one member seemed to spend more time outside the alliance than actually in it (not a personal dig by the way, merely the way things seemed).
When I booted him there was almost no reaction from them. Infact, some of them seemed completely oblivious to what had happened. Personally I was disappointed. I had expected more of a reaction, any reaction.
When Marv took over he tried to contact the members and got almost no response until he kicked people.

Savelite items....
Rhaegar aggressively sought the items that he felt belonged to the church. He was very insistent (to put it mildly) that they belonged to the church. Where are they now? He refused to return the ones he had to Marvolo, when Marvolo took over. I guess that they only belong to the church if Rhaegar is running it. Maybe it should be called the church of Rhaegar?

Alliance location..
Rhaegar himself stated to me very clearly that the Savels belonged in Loreroot and would never leave.

Savelite memorial....
Yeah, I find this a mixture of funny and sickening really. For starters it is really a homage to himself and one or two others, as well as a two fingered salute to myself and the rest of Loreroot. He's missing at least one name of an older member from that list and he has included names of people that had long gone before his demise and also some people that were barely there or did anything at all. The Savels are also not dead, so having a 'memorial' is in poor taste in my opinion.

The ultimate irony though, is that the alliance should have a memorial, because it should be put to bed in my opinion. But it seems that people in MD have an inability to let go of the past and move on. If this new incarnation of the alliance does not make something of itself it will be going to alliance heaven. Make no mistakes about it.
As for a memorial, that should be something that is done by the MD community (or at the very least the land of the alliance), not by one or two people with an axe to grind.

Rhaegar had his chance. He blew it royally, so stop this nonsense of saying he should have it back. It is time to give someone else a chance or put the alliance to bed once and for all.

Firstly, this was not a place to have your personal rants about one person, in this case Rhaegar. You should learn to let the past lie and get on with the future, as you were saying Rhaegar should have done.

Secondly, you accused Rhaegar of being a "Control freak".
It seems to me that [b][i]you[/i][/b] are the control freak, if anyone dares question your word, or say anything against you, you become a dictator, so yes, in short [i][b]you[/b][/i]are the control freak.

Finally- [quote name='Firsanthalas' timestamp='1284200009' post='68186']
Pip, you are a spanner. You love spouting off. Off you go and do something constructive for a change instead of taking pot shots when it suits you.
[/quote] In a way this proves what I said about you being a control freak. Someone goes against what you say and you become angry, annoyed and rather childish. Infact, you probably will with this post. Also this comment "You love spouting off." is rather ironic seeing as yourself had just posted an essay on how you dislike Rhaegar.:P

Edited by Sasha Lilias
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blah blah, blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah

Is it MD's new premise to have arguments on the same issues over and over again?

This topic merely enforces that some of you dont like some others of you. But we already know this because you have complained here before.

I am closing this topic. If you want to dicuss this i want a NICE topic, that isnt mainly about what firs/rheagar/insert as applicable did or didnt do for the savalites. I will be closing each and every one of these topics that degrade into pointless "finger pointing"

have a nice day :)

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