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I just made the majority of my alts, approximately 25-30 of them, adepts of Granos to put him up to MP6, i wouldve done 30 cept i had time constraints to do it in one night.


-On a side note, i just lost MP6 myself due to not paying enough attention on getting actual adepts myself, if anyone's curious


I state this pubicly and i did it with the full intention of this being entirely public.According to the game rules there is nothing wrong with this, as i am not benefitting any accounts of mine.


Please discuss.


LE: This is referring to adepts, not the abuseability of alts

Edited by Grido
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So you made a whole bunch of your alts the adepts of Granos to prove a point? Why don't you just come out and say what the point of your actions are rather than making a big show of it.

You are clearly trying to force the powers that be to make a change to the rules, much like Granos did when he cheated whateverhisname was of a creature.

What rules do you wish to see changed, then? Something about alts or something about adepts?

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alts are meant to be independant accounts
adept of = is your mentor
if accounts are independant, and trying to develop seperately, then they shouldnt have same mentor, as that would be developing clones of yourself

the majority of people get friends alts and such to help them out with adepting, and i'm no exception there btw
i just think it's wrong that you should be able to just ask your friend for a few of their adepts to get you to the magical 30, to do so is like pretending that there's more people about than there actually are.

There are currently 6 MP6 (Princ Rheagar, sagewoman, Amoran, Pample, Me(dropped temp), Granos), each needs a minimum of 30 adepts to remain mp6, so that's 180 accounts for those 6 players, this would imply that there are 180 accounts running around most days, interacting with people, chatting happily and such. This is not the case, as i write this my toolbar is telling me there are 102 players online, and there's been no talk of anyone except these 6 people having adepts, ofc other people have adepts too...

MP6 isn't meant for everyone, it never was, it is meant to be a struggle to get there, and to stay there, not just a case of asking some friends to log in their alts for the week.

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A long, long time ago, Mur told me something about alts. It was when he still...you know, talked to people on a regular basis, n' stuff. I told him that my friend had made his alt an adept of his, and I was all serious about it and everything, but he explained the difference between game rules and society rules. Society rules are made by us, and they're usually enforced by us. This would be things such as the silence spell, regen rits at lower MP levels or even MP5, training grounds, and stuff like that. Game rules are handled by Mur, and whoever else he chooses to help him. This is things like bug abuse, big alt abuse, WP problems, and those kinds of things.

Alt abuse is on a threshold between the two, I think. Many people will say things like "I'll wait for Mur to tell me that it's alt abuse", but they should realize that Mur has better things to do, and shouldn't have to resolve our arguments. However, there are issues such as MRI and CrazyMike, or Lightsage with his heads contest fiasco, that only Mur COULD deal with.

I would also like to reference something Akasha said once, because it will probably come up. The conversation was about the Libs, and how they were used so Liberty could become MP6. Akasha said that the Libs were part of Liberty's role, and since that role was taken by Liberty, nobody else can do it. While I disagree with the logic, Akasha's word is basically official.

So, sure, if one or two of your alts are your adepts while nobody's looking, then feel free, but if you get caught, then, with the Kings' ability to jail citizens and Grido for everybody else, you may end up worse off because of it.

Right, I should mention, your friend's alts are still alts.

Edited by Pipstickz
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I agree entirely here.

I believe the rules should be changed to something like

"Alts may not be used solely to benfit a player or groups of players"

From murs descision on GGG alts abusing the system. It seems a small step to make training ground "alts" offically an abuse.

Well done Grido!

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Chewett maybe I missed something but what do training ground alts have to do with adepts?

edit:also according to your wording Chewy, alts wouldn't be able to trade items or creatures to anyone anymore but I digress this is about alts and adepts.

Edited by Darigan
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the entire issue of alts is all linked.

My suggestion was to have the rules on alts formalized. Gridos example is "alts solely benefiting one player or group of players". This i have "claimed" is wrong, and my evidence is that Mur has banned alts in GGG because they are not allowed.

Some people use alts well, Such as someone like Mcvite. She roleplays most of her alts, and the only "bad" thing she has done is try and reward them in a quest, which she now regrets. These alts arnt used Solely" to benifit others. Such alts such as gridos are rarely played, and if they are just used to abuse i would say thats wrong.

The key word in what i said is Solely. Every situation is different, But we should use our common sense when trying to decide between someone playing a role with an alt, and someone age farming or using them to train on.

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maybe my opinion is completely out of the question, or completely wrong, but as I can no longer issue anyway:)
you may need to change the rule to also be MP6, or open the opportunity for more players become MP6, leaving aside the adepts as a requirement, so use alts for this would be unnecessary.
it would also give a new breath to be mp5 players, because nowadays many do not get to play and have fun with their rituals or upgrading creatures.
or in other games reaches a point where new servers are opened to give people the opportunity to develop, here logically would not be the case, but open a new mp level of achievement for a select and powerful group of players who choke expectations of other mp5 (as I do not have much time to train, and now without the GGG, I became a useless one year old player)

Edited by Throm McLeod
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[b]*spamerish reminder - fix the healing level spells for mp6*[/b]

also, when you all talk about getting-mp6-harder-to-get-or-lose, why don't you make mp6 more rewarding along the way? :D

currently you have all sorts of requirements to become mp6 with such amount of disadvantages that it is ridiculous for someone to even think about getting mp6.

[b]*spamerish reminder - fix the healing level spells for mp6*[/b]

increased effect of the spells based on those levels would be pretty cool too (so the spells mean something to young mp5s too, not just newbie mp3s. My max-heat healings of 4000 Vitality aren't that important to mp4s even anymore, or just some older mp3s who finished the story mode)

[b]*spamerish reminder - fix the healing level spells for mp6*[/b]



back to topic: this ain't that wounding to the community Grido, of course alt rules should be defined in period of time and maintained, but this is not the only case of alt abusing, so why concentring on the most non-damaging one?

Edited by Rhaegar Targaryen
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The five MP6's we have currently in place are a responsible bunch (I'm including you, Grido). I don't see this issue as much of a problem, as I do not feel alts/adepts are being abused. I have some alts as adepts, but who doesn't? Alts are a part of life in MD, which is not to suggest that we just have to deal with them, but, to my knowledge, no one has exploited alts/adepts to reach MP6. If this was such an issue, wouldn't there be tons of MP6 protectors running around? I understand that just because something has not happened in the past does not mean it will not happen in the future, but this whole issue seems a bit nit-picky.

It is very difficult to maintain MP6, although less difficult to attain. It takes constant vigilance to stay a Protector, as Grido proved:

[quote name='Grido' date='12 July 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1278986948' post='63850']
-On a side note, i just lost MP6 myself due to not paying enough attention on getting actual adepts myself
[/quote]

This vigilance comes in the form of a sort of constant state of recruitment. I cannot speak for the other Protectors, but I am always on the lookout for people to help and mentor. This is something I enjoy, which is, I think the reason most of us are MP6. So while I may have alts as adepts, the vast, vast, vast majority of my adepts are people who are new to MD or people who are Necrovians. So while alts/adepts factor into my count, I don't think any of us rely on:
[quote name='Grido' date='12 July 2010 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1278992077' post='63853']asking some friends to log in their alts for the week.
[/quote]

MP6 is difficult; it requires dedication, perseverance and overall, a desire to put others before yourself. You are right, it is not for everyone, but I hold fast to the belief this issue you have pointed out is really much ado about nothing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

[b]About next MP Level[/b]
The next stage is a special gamestage. Not all players reach it. During mindpower 6 stage players are considered protectors and can cast friendly and offensive spells to help their worshipers. As a protector you will not have many oponents to fight with but you will be more involved with group play. In MP6 your creatures or millitary progress is no longer important, but your popularity is. If you somehow fail to fulfill all the requirements for MP6 you will be droped back to MP5. MP6 is a temporary level. [u][b]Cheating or exploiting the spells or the adepts/worshipers is a serious crime and mp6 players are constant monitored for such activities, if you do such things you will get banned forever,w without warning.[/b][/u] MP6 is not the last level, but its a different level.

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Grido does make a valid point though and I think I understand what he is trying to say. For example lets say I use my main account and make myself an adept of lets say Granos. Now due to an absent thought in a lapse of judgment create an alt. The question is whether or not that alt could be a adept of Granos as well. If I am so far right up to this point it raises another question. If I where to create an alt could that alt be an adept of a different character than the one I am already an adept of.

I do have to agree with Grido though that this is another type of alt abuse that is inside the bounds of what the rules currently say is acceptable.

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