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Excommunication Of Blackthorn And Blackwood Forest


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For acts of treason, I hereby sentence Blackthorn and Blackwood Forest to be excommunicated from Loreroot.
The king of Loreroot was elected fairly and legally, therefore is not a ‘false king’ or ‘usurper’. Inciting rebellion is an act of treason. Refusing to accept the king is contrary to the rules of citizenship. As I have already said, if you can’t or won’t accept the king you are in contravention to the rules of citizenship. You should not be in the land.

Anyone may voice their objections to my actions, but inciting rebellion is too much.
There are ways to go about things, rebellion and civil war are not the way to go.
You will never have a situation where everyone will be happy with a situation. You cannot have a few people try to usurp the rule of law and the voice of the people. As king I will not allow this to happen. I am subject to the will of the people, not an angry few, who themselves don’t seem to have ever accepted the will of the people to begin with.

Some may feel that I am simply removing any opposition. I am not. I am acting as is appropriate against people that are clearly committing acts of treason. Anyone is free to voice their unhappiness. I am not ‘out to get’ any group or individual. You have a voice and are free to use it. Acts of treason, inciting rebellion and creating feuds are not acceptable though. They only damage Loreroot and create hurt. If this was let go unpunished then no future king or governing group could ever function. Everytime someone felt they didn’t like the outcome of elections or actions taken, then we would have unrest.

If people feel that I have become tyrannical and lost the plot it is up to you to voice that. Indeed I plead for you the people to stand up and voice your opinions on the matters at hand. Loreroot is not just my domain, it is the home of many. So far I feel that I have the support of the majority, but many have thus far been silent. You should speak up and let your voice be heard.

As justification of the charge of treason, I submit this extract of a conversation at Bob last night.


[spoiler]
[07/06/10 23:51] BlackThorn:it seems wr has come again
[07/06/10 23:51] BlackThorn:The usurper of Loreroot has been called out
[07/06/10 23:52] :redneck nods to blackthorn
[07/06/10 23:52] BlackThorn:it seems betrayal is not something Firsanthalas can keep hidden forever
[07/06/10 23:52] Blackwood Forest:my fellow brother
[07/06/10 23:52] :Blackwood Forest holds Rhaegars shoulders
[07/06/10 23:53] :Princ Rhaegar nods to his brother and taps his shoulder in return
[07/06/10 23:53] redneck:theres going ot be war?
[07/06/10 23:53] Blackwood Forest:you won´t be alone!
[07/06/10 23:53] Princ Rhaegar:I spit on the day that whelp got borned in this realm.
[07/06/10 23:53] Princ Rhaegar:I am sorry to bring this to you all...
[07/06/10 23:53] Princ Rhaegar:those who aren't willing to step up, I won't hold grudge against.
[07/06/10 23:54] Princ Rhaegar:but I will take my teeth to Firsanthalas and I will do my best to end his pitifuly reign.
[07/06/10 23:54] Princ Rhaegar:Fire and Blood
[07/06/10 23:55] redneck:whos going to war loreroot and necro?
[07/06/10 23:55] Blackwood Forest:brothers in arms
[07/06/10 23:55] :Ailith stands and places her hand on Bob
[07/06/10 23:55] Princ Rhaegar:no redneck. Civil war of Loreroot.
[07/06/10 23:55] Princ Rhaegar:a sad day.
[07/06/10 23:56] Blackwood Forest:a very sad day
[07/06/10 23:56] Blackwood Forest:you won´t be involved my friends *puts a hand on Bob*
[07/06/10 23:56] BlackThorn:the day has been long in coming
[07/06/10 23:57] BlackThorn:history does not forget...and niehter do I
[07/06/10 23:57] :Princ Rhaegar smiles
[07/06/10 23:57] Princ Rhaegar:it has been an honor
[07/06/10 23:57] Princ Rhaegar:to be part of something with you all, brothers.
[07/06/10 23:58] Princ Rhaegar:if I die, I will die for what I believe in, knowing that I couldn't have chose a better company than you.
[07/06/10 23:58] BlackThorn:It ws Firsan the ass who betrayed Raven to Yrthillian long ago..
[07/06/10 23:58] redneck:civla war loreroot fighting lorerootians?
[07/06/10 23:58] redneck:firsanthalas is an asshole>>
[07/06/10 23:59] Blackwood Forest:dont use that kind of language redneck!
[08/06/10 00:00] Princ Rhaegar:I hope history indeed won't forget, my brother.
[08/06/10 00:01] Blackwood Forest:try to make your mind open and clear but intelligent
[08/06/10 00:01] redneck:ok sorry i just like aying my opinion>>
[08/06/10 00:02] BlackThorn:we must gather our army Lord Rhaegar
[08/06/10 00:02] BlackThorn:It is a good opinion
[08/06/10 00:02] redneck:princ why were you excommunicated?
[08/06/10 00:02] Blackwood Forest:read the forum redneck
[08/06/10 00:02] Blackwood Forest: [Forum link]
[08/06/10 00:03] redneck:kk
[08/06/10 00:03] Blackwood Forest: (brb)
[08/06/10 00:09] Princ Rhaegar:i will need to depart my brothers
[08/06/10 00:09] Princ Rhaegar:my determination will not fade.
[08/06/10 00:10] Princ Rhaegar:take care of yourselves...
[08/06/10 00:10] Princ Rhaegar:dark days await.
[08/06/10 00:10] redneck:thats wrong><
[08/06/10 00:12] redneck:princ i would be furious alwso><
[08/06/10 00:14] :Princ Rhaegar smiles
[08/06/10 00:14] Princ Rhaegar:life is wrong, my friend.
[08/06/10 00:14] redneck:im not to good now to fight i odnt have tokens anymore but i od have a 5 digit attack now>>
[08/06/10 00:14] Princ Rhaegar:you would join our cause?
[08/06/10 00:14] redneck:yeah
[08/06/10 00:15] Princ Rhaegar:then I welcome you warmly, friend. Now that we are shaping future of many.
[08/06/10 00:15] Princ Rhaegar:Know*
[08/06/10 00:15] redneck:yup
[08/06/10 00:15] BlackThorn:even if Firsan the ass kicks us all out...we will never stop untill he is no more
[08/06/10 00:16] Princ Rhaegar:glad to see you so determined brother.
[08/06/10 00:18] Blackwood Forest:can you heal me brother?
[08/06/10 00:18] BlackThorn:my blood is on the sacred ground of Loreroot...you will ever have my fealty Prince Rhaegar
[08/06/10 00:19] Princ Rhaegar:of course
[08/06/10 00:19] :[Spell] Blessings of Savelfuser - Blackwood Forest
[08/06/10 00:19] :Princ Rhaegar taps Blackthorn's shoulder
[08/06/10 00:20] Princ Rhaegar:i feel a hell of a lot easier now
[08/06/10 00:20] Princ Rhaegar:when the burden has been lifted from my thoughts
[08/06/10 00:20] Princ Rhaegar:and my enemy revealed himself
[08/06/10 00:22] redneck:cant wait for my new avatar princ will look cool ;)
[08/06/10 00:22] Blackwood Forest:good night all
[08/06/10 00:22] :Blackwood Forest lays to the wall and snoozes away
[08/06/10 00:22] Princ Rhaegar:hahaha, all the best with it, my friend.
[08/06/10 00:22] Princ Rhaegar:good night my brother. may you stay undisturbed.
[08/06/10 00:23] redneck:night
[08/06/10 00:23] Princ Rhaegar:Great Ghost will protect you from tain of our home.
[08/06/10 00:23] Princ Rhaegar:taint*
[08/06/10 00:23] Princ Rhaegar:I'll be going as well
[08/06/10 00:23] Princ Rhaegar:will be sleeping here...
[08/06/10 00:24] Princ Rhaegar:we will stay in touch, redneck *smiles*
[08/06/10 00:24] Princ Rhaegar:good night to you all.
[/spoiler]

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What - my former king - makes you do to trow me out? I might be a good friend of Rhaegar, and I might support a friend, but how I support him and if this will affect you, your kingship or his so called rebellion is not proved and declared in any case. You act cruel and put me in prison for what? Spying on conversations in no mans land? What does it tell you? I might support my friend maybe with cookies? If this goes out to personal level of abusing your powers as king (i know you don´t like me same as him), this is not ok. Please define your treatment from mine clear and fine, and judge over but fair - cause this seems not fair to me. I request to be put our of prison until this isn´t decided!

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Ok. You have participated in a very public display of intent to incite rebellion and civil war in Loreroot.
I would like to add that I have repeatedly said that people are free to speak to me and express their opinions.
I have also left a significant amount of time between the event and the reaction.
You or anyone else are free to question my authority, but not the legitimacy of my position. You can seek to have me removed by appropriate means, however rebellion, is not appropriate. It is not an attack on me personally either, but on an entire land.
If you are willing to state that you recognise the throne and obey the rules of citizenship that is fine. This doesn't mean that you have to agree with all my decisions or suck up to me.
You openly pledged your support to Rhaegar and his cause. That is an act of treason. You never made any contact with me to give me any indication to the contrary.

If you feel that I have been unfair and that you are not in support of a rebellion then say so. I will gladly revoke the excommunication. I am not afraid to admit if I am in error. However, given your public declaration and nothing to the contrary, my action was justified and indeed warranted.
You are free to disagree with me, you are free to say so, but you are not free to be involved in rebellion and insurrection.

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[quote name='Firsanthalas' date='08 June 2010 - 02:15 PM' timestamp='1275999306' post='61353']
Ok. You have participated in a very public display of intent to incite rebellion and civil war in Loreroot.
[/quote]
Can you please show me this, where this accusatorial is written, similar as your log?

As for my understanding, I got punished because I am friend of a public enemy. It is similar for me like in WW2 times, where the Nazis jails all friends of Jews only because of being friends of them? They have not been involved in anything, similar to me. I wont say what I am, I am not the one who judges over myself. I want you to proof my action and to proof that I have ever spoken out a treatment against your or Loreroot. This can go out to a court. Let people decide If I am a "rebel" or not. If they do, i will sit my days in jail. If not, you will apologize and rewind what you have done to me.
Does this sound like a fair conversation? I guess so.

You asked me I should have contacted you therefor, but what for? Got me? Until you can´t prove any real treatment from my side, you might not imprison me.

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I will repeat. From what transpired it appears to me that you have thrown your towel in with Rhaegar and his plans for a rebellion. If I am error all you have to do is say that I am in error. I consider this to be rather magnanimous.
I am telling you that I am willing to say I was wrong, apologise and correct the error.
I honestly cannot see how I can be anymore fair or just. Some people may even say that I am mad to admit that I may have been incorrect.
I am not all knowing and all powerful. I am a human and can make mistakes.
Yet your response seems to be to call me a nazi?
Am I truly that bad? Am I truly so unreasonable a person?

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No I haven't ment to call you or anyone else a Nazi, it was just the first but best example for this kind of judgment in my eyes. Don´t hung up on this, please.

I´d like to talk to you in privacy about this please.

Edited by Blackwoodforest
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[07/06/10 23:52] :Blackwood Forest holds Rhaegars shoulders
[07/06/10 23:53] Blackwood Forest:you won´t be alone!
[07/06/10 23:55] Blackwood Forest:brothers in arms

Just noting the chat. Blackwood is a guardian of tree and a good friend of mine. I have never known him to be hostile twards anyone except those who injure or try to kill Tree. However the chat does see quite incriminating to the fact that blackwood agrees to side with Princ. I would like to speak with you privately Blackwood. Please send me a forum pm with your YIM name.

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[quote name='Firsanthalas' date='08 June 2010 - 04:25 AM' timestamp='1275996302' post='61350']
For acts of treason, I hereby sentence Blackthorn and Blackwood Forest to be excommunicated from Loreroot.
The king of Loreroot was elected fairly and legally, therefore is not a ‘false king’ or ‘usurper’. Inciting rebellion is an act of treason. Refusing to accept the king is contrary to the rules of citizenship. As I have already said, if you can’t or won’t accept the king you are in contravention to the rules of citizenship. You should not be in the land.

Anyone may voice their objections to my actions, but inciting rebellion is too much.
There are ways to go about things, rebellion and civil war are not the way to go.
You will never have a situation where everyone will be happy with a situation. You cannot have a few people try to usurp the rule of law and the voice of the people. As king I will not allow this to happen. I am subject to the will of the people, not an angry few, who themselves don’t seem to have ever accepted the will of the people to begin with.

Some may feel that I am simply removing any opposition. I am not. I am acting as is appropriate against people that are clearly committing acts of treason. Anyone is free to voice their unhappiness. I am not ‘out to get’ any group or individual. You have a voice and are free to use it. Acts of treason, inciting rebellion and creating feuds are not acceptable though. They only damage Loreroot and create hurt. If this was let go unpunished then no future king or governing group could ever function. Everytime someone felt they didn’t like the outcome of elections or actions taken, then we would have unrest.

If people feel that I have become tyrannical and lost the plot it is up to you to voice that. Indeed I plead for you the people to stand up and voice your opinions on the matters at hand. Loreroot is not just my domain, it is the home of many. So far I feel that I have the support of the majority, but many have thus far been silent. You should speak up and let your voice be heard.

As justification of the charge of treason, I submit this extract of a conversation at Bob last night.


"Citizen entails a number of things.
First of all you are saying that you agree to obey the rule of that land and also to do what you can to defend and help it.
The next thing is that you will take on the bonuses and drawbacks of the land alliance. So you will gain some bonuses to stats, but also the land timer and ap,ve,vp that comes with that. However, you are not in an alliance.
If you understand this and are still happy to proceed let me know.
One more thing.
I can only make one person a citizen every 3hrs and you must be in the same location as me at the time.

If you are in an alliance in Loreroot you are already a citizen and need not apply. Equally if you join an alliance in Loreoot that also means you become a citizen. So essentially joining an alliance also means you join the land as a citizen.

If you are confused and want to know if you are a citizen its simple enough. Check where it tells you your MP level and it will show it there."

[/quote]


Nowhere in your own definition of "citizen" do you state one must obey the king and every word that he utters. Nowhere did I find published the "rule of the Land” or the "rules of citizenship". I spoke out [b]not[/b] against Loreroot, but against the actions of a man not worthy to be king. No where do I incite others to attack Loreroot. I swore fealty to Rhaegar...never to you, and I serve the people of Loreroot, and the Savelite church. Not you...and I have vowed to protect it. Not you...and that is what we are doing...protecting the land and supporting its people, all of its people, not just the ones you like, from an enemy posing as our king. I have committed no acts of treason.

The moment you allowed Your RL friend Yrthillian to attack Loreroot, and in particular Raven...without publicly condemning his actions...you betrayed Loreroot. You were, at the time, a member of the high counsel, and the ambassador for the GOTR...and yet you were nowhere to be found... Yrthillian stated in the forum, that there were some he would [b]not allow [/b]to be "King of Loreroot" without bringing war to our land, of which Raven was named...but that he would also support some within the ranks of the guardians to be king...It seems he supports you Firsanthelass...the one member of the counsel that did not object to Yrth's decree or his threats.

The leader of Golemus decided who would and who would not be "king" of another land. Is that how the other Kings of this realm took power? I think not. Oh yes I know there was an election...but with the threat from Golemus looming, should the people of Loreroot elect the "wrong person" to the throne. That is why you are named usurper... the Taint of your betrayal will never leave you Firsanthelass. No doubt you will deny it...but the record of your actions and inactions is there for all to see.

Rhaegar learned of your treachery when he was researching the LR history. You have disliked him ever since and stood in his way, time and time again, to bring about positive changes and activities to LR and its people. Just as you have stood in the way of others. That is why you attack him and why he was forced by your tyranny to stand up and say "enough." You may hold the position...but you are no King. It is time for a change.

Fearful of every action Rhaegar and the satellites take...you demand to know everything we do within our own alliance...(no you may not read savel's preacher book to see if you like it or not). Now you threaten to banish the Savelite church from Loreroot. Why? You imprison a member of the church for simply being online and caring for his leader. Why? You excommunicated him from LR. Why? I guess once having betrayed another, you must always fear betrayal. I am guilty of speaking out against a man who is not fit to wear the crown or Loreroot. Blackwood Forest has done nothing...still you condemn him. Proving that you are a tyrant.

You spend your time and effort insuring your position ever fearful of those around you, instead of working to better your lands and people. Who will you kick out next Firsan? Will you kick out every one who is Rhaegars friend? Will you kick out everyone who doesn't agree with you? What about those who criticize you...will you kick them out too? What about those within your own alliance? We have friends there too you know. Who can you trust Firsan? OH yes that’s right...your RL friend Yrth, we must not forget that threat... I wonder will golemus attack Loreroot should we throw the puppet off his throne? I know what you can do firsan, If you throw everyone out you can be king of Loreroot all by yourself.

You currently have the power to "excommunicate me” and I accept my two week sentence. As those who know me and my habits...I rather like it here...more time for me to draw and write...as for your excommunication...I am now and will remain a member of Loreroot, and the satellites. You have done nothing but weaken your own realm. Rhaegar remains the leader of the Savelites, albeit in exile...you may take away the symbol but you cannot change the reality. Rhaegar is a leader, just as you are not. He is a man of honor, just as you are not. Position changes nothing...title changes nothing.

We, and there are many of us Firsan, do not bring war upon Loreroot, or its people, or any of it's alliances. We are coming for you.

BlackThorn


As a note outside of character...I am rather dismayed at the poor and neglected condition I have found the game to be in since I returned...I have seen so few new players and even fewer active veterans. Part of the problem as I see it, is due to there being very little to role-play about. I understand Mur that you have a great need to control us for your own purpose...but I still do not understand why. You have Imagination as one of the principles of this realm, but we are told not to express it in this way or in that. The sheer number of Rules is astounding, and to be honest, I do not have the time to keep up with them all. Imagination is about freedom not control. So why so much control and intimidation? I am not writing this to disparage you but to ask in an open an honest way, why? Why can we not just play the way we want, however we want. I have read what you have written about the subject, and more...still I do not understand you or your need to control us. Why do we need kings, or a jail...not that I don't like this one...could use some curtains though, and a window to go with it...? I understand you are behind it all, but I still cannot understand your motives. At least I hope I do not...for I am acting under the assumption that you want the game to succeed. From what I see however, it seems to be dying.

Jon-

Edited by Muratus del Mur
closed/fixed quote started at the top
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First and foremost, I would like to say that Blackthorn is a player that I respect very much. He was the player who inducted me in the GOTR. I still remember the day he called me away from the dojo to GOE. It was one of the most memorable days of my life in MD.

It is most unfortunate that I must speak up against him today.

@Blackthorn

There is always two sides to a story. During the days of Raven’s leadership in GOTR, there were a lot players who are not happy with him. Raven made decisions that was not accepted by many.

Just as Ammy had the same problem, Firsan too faced that issue. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe even Mur faced the same issue.

Leaders will always have to make decisions and unfortunately, not all will accept it.

You say Firsan will kick out all that is against him? Well, without naming names, I know of a few that is against Firsan as a King, and even Firsan knows it, but he allows them to continue to be in Loreroot, allows them to continue annoying him with questions and actions.

In a way, it a check and balance as these enemies of Firsan keeps him on his toes. Note that this group are enemies of Firsan, NOT enemies of Loreroot.

They question the actions of the King but never at any instant they endanger Loreroot. When they question the King, it is to his face with heated debates.

No openly criticising rudely in the Forum.

No inciting of war.

No talk of civil war.

That, Blackthorn is the issue.

You will always have my respect for what you have done for me, but on this point, I would have done the same if I were the King.

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[quote name='CrazyMike' date='08 June 2010 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1276055415' post='61409']
First and foremost, I would like to say that Blackthorn is a player that I respect very much. He was the player who inducted me in the GOTR. I still remember the day he called me away from the dojo to GOE. It was one of the most memorable days of my life in MD.

It is most unfortunate that I must speak up against him today.

@Blackthorn

There is always two sides to a story. During the days of Raven’s leadership in GOTR, there were a lot players who are not happy with him. Raven made decisions that was not accepted by many.

Just as Ammy had the same problem, Firsan too faced that issue. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe even Mur faced the same issue.

Leaders will always have to make decisions and unfortunately, not all will accept it.

You say Firsan will kick out all that is against him? Well, without naming names, I know of a few that is against Firsan as a King, and even Firsan knows it, but he allows them to continue to be in Loreroot, allows them to continue annoying him with questions and actions.

In a way, it a check and balance as these enemies of Firsan keeps him on his toes. Note that this group are enemies of Firsan, NOT enemies of Loreroot.

They question the actions of the King but never at any instant they endanger Loreroot. When they question the King, it is to his face with heated debates.

No openly criticising rudely in the Forum.

No inciting of war.

No talk of civil war.

That, Blackthorn is the issue.

You will always have my respect for what you have done for me, but on this point, I would have done the same if I were the King.
[/quote]

I appreciate your kind words, you are a good friend.... but I would appreciate even more a more careful read of the situation. I have made no crime against the land of Loreroot or it's people. far from it, I have always supported Loreroot and I always will. I say Firsan has, both in the past and even now since he has been king, acted in a criminal way toward both individuals and loreroot itself. He has excommunicated an innocent man and put him in jail. what was Blackwoods crime? He cared for a friend after he was vicsiously attacked by a tyrant? how long was it exactly from the time Mur gave to firsan his new King powers before he attacked Rhaegar with them?

Quote from Forum "mur"
" what about this:
- king can allow new citizens in based on their intention letter
- king can kick people out of the land (remove citizenship) only if they did something against the land. That allows people to be part of a land but also be against its leader and be immune to revenge on this reason, unless they do somethign wrong for the land itself (land image, military, treason, abuse, etc)

in other words, citizenship is gained by making the king accept you, but cant be removed same way" what about this then? apparently if you criticize firsan in no man's land you can be excommunicated and sent to jail without so much as a question being asked. and if Rhaegar attacked firsan and firsan alone...then why is he excommunicated?

Rhaegar was his chief competition durring the "election". Rhaegar is his chief Rival...so he has made a point of denying Rhaegar's desire to improve things here in LR, time and time again. Firsan acts in his own best interest, by attacking and excommunicating Rhaegar, not in the interests of loreroot. no matter what Rhaegar said or did in anger, a true king would have acted in the best interests of his land and it's people, Firsan has shown he is incapable of doing that. He made no attempt to reason with any of us, indeed he did not so much as say a word to me or question me or Blackwood in anyway.

Whether people were dissatisfied with Raven or not is hardly the point. He owed Raven and GOTR and Loreroot a duty, one that he chose not to fulfill. Firsan was complicit in Golemus's attack on Loreroot. If in no other way, then by failing to act as ambassador and stop the war, or as a counsel member and speak out against Golemus's attack. Ah yes, but that would not have been in HIS best interest, now would it.

How did I ever endanger Loreroot? I did not...I spoke out against the unjust actions of a tyrant. I criticized Him AFTER he decided to excommunicate Rhaegar and send him to prison. for my role, I have bound myself to Rhaegar, and for good or ill, I will support whatever action he so decides is best. I have not in any way incited war against the land of Loreroot, nor did I speak to any member of loreroot to start a civil war. I have taken no action what so ever against my homeland, I have only spoken out against Firsan and Firsan alone. And it causes me much pain to hear you claim otherwise. .

I do not support Firsan as King and I have made no secret of that fact. Until he attacked Rhaegar, Blackwood, and myself and threatened to excommunicate the entire Savelite church from Loreroot, I was content to let him "play king"; (after all who am I but a lowly Bard) but only out of respect for King Mur's decision to allow such a pimple of a man to call himself King. Still I remained silent my opinions about his kingship and counciled others against taking any action against him.

But I have known Firsan for a long time....and he has always acted out of his own best interest and never out of what was best for Loreroot. Rhaegar on the otherhand follows a Knightly Code layed down by Savel himself...he is sworn to uphold what is right and to help all those who seek his healing. He has remained MP6 so that he could perform his healing duties, even though that kept his Loyalty low and endangered his possition within the savelite order. He placed others above himself...these are the actions of a king...one who will place the needs of others above his own selfish interests. He has struggled to stay true to our Code while enduring the selfserving darts of firsan. but it is a hard cross we bear..."to always do what is right"...and so he was forced by Firsan own actions to finally stand up and rid Loreroot of his taint. please re-read the chat Firsan posted now in this light and with this perspective. then I think you will see it is not something we desire, but something that we must do to remain true to our Code. We must do what is right no matter the personal cost..and not what is right for us...but what is right for Loreroot and it's people.

IF that means that Rhaegar is guilty then so be it...I am too. for I am also a Savelite....as I said he is my liege and I will follow him because he is most worthy. Firsan has weakened his own land because he cannot wait to abuse the power that Mur has given him by excommunicating one of its greatest warriors, leaders, and men. And I dare say some would say the same for Blackwood and myself as well. Firsan is the one who attacked the people of Loreroot...not me, not Blackwood, and certainly not Rhaegar.

Edited by Blackthorn
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[quote] By submiting this form you agree to obey the laws of the land you selected and obey its ruler.[/quote]
This is on the citizenship application page. Furthermore, it stands to reason. A citizen of any country must agree to accept the rules of the country and it's leadership. In any democratic state people vote against the government that is elected. Some people even run against that group. People are free to speak their mind and say that they don't agree with policies etc. But you can't turn around and say that you do not recognise the government, yet continue to claim that you are a citizen. Yet, you cannot simply state that you are not a citizen and you don't have to obey the law and pay taxes etc.
People are free to disagree with me. I do not toss people in jail that oppose me. However, I cannot allow people to refute my position and say that they are loyal to an alliance leader and not the crown. This is not even a personal issue, it is a duty that I have to the position of the crown, the people and the law of the land. The king is a democratically elected position. That has to be protected, otherwise I am allowing an assault on democracy itself. You or nobody else can claim leadership to your alliance leader over the crown. If I were not king, Mya would be loyal to the crown first and me second. So would all the Guardians.
A further point on excommunicating people and me removing my opposition. I have had a constant battle of wills, ego, personality, views or whatever you want to call it with Rhaegar in particular. I have and will continue to have differing views with other people too. However, I could have simply jailed Rhaegar at anytime, if that was my desire. I didn't need tools to do this. I simply had to make a request, as Peace did sometime ago. When Rhaegar defied a royal decree and refused to accept the crown and make the claims he did, I had no choice but to remove him. I could not let such behaviour go. As I have said, he should have left if he couldn't abide the election results. And as you have said yourself, you and he have decided that I am a traitor and other things. It seems clear that you are not interested in anything that I have to say. You have made up your minds. I tried to work with Rhaegar for a very long time. I have defended him on the forums for the world to see and I have chastised him, when he has been foolish.
I have spoken my mind at all times.I have made my thoughts and feelings clear to people, even people I was at odds with. You can say that I pushed Amoran from the leadership of the Guardians for instance. But there was nothing underhanded in that. We did not see eye to eye. We both had issue with each other at the time. There was nothing hidden about it. There was never any attempt to seize power by nefarious means. No clandestine invites to outside parties. Afterwards, we attempted to rebuild some trust and heal wounds. By your logic, I would have simply tossed her to the wind, removed her as an enemy. I didn't. I believe that she fell foul to nonsense and acted out of character to her usual self. We both hurt each other and we both have different views on things. But I respect her and I try to be fair and listen, even when I don't like what she has to say. As Mike said, it is checks and balances. She helps keep me grounded and see other points of view.

I never attempted to remove Raven, despite what you think. There where times that I was unhappy with his decisions and in fact he ignored my council on some diplomatic matters. I feel that had he listened to me a lot of things could have turned out differently. To claim that his departure was my fault because I failed to stop a war is really silly. You might as well blame every diplomat for every war that has ever happened. Furthermore, it was you that helped to kick start that whole mess. You, not me. You really should take responsibility for your actions and not pass the blame to scapegoats.

Concerning Blackwood. I have said that I excommunicated him for seemingly siding and supporting an illegal rebellion and attempt to start a civil war. It looked to me (and others I might add) that he was throwing his towel in with Rhaegar and you. That being said, I have said that if I was in error, I would reverse the decision. He doesn't have to kiss my boots and promise to blindly obey me. BUT, he does have to accept citizenship and therefore the position and sovereignty of the crown. I am waiting to hear back from him and I hope that there is nothing more than a misunderstanding and that will be made clear.
Excommunicating the Savelites. I never said that. I gave the Savelites the option to remove the entire alliance from Loreroot. THE OPTION. I was showing that I did not blame them and had intention to disband them or take them over. I even said that Rhaegar could lead them, but not within Loreroot.
I think that is more than fair. It seems that Marvolo has chosen to keep the Savels as part of Loreroot and I am more than happy to hear that, as most people in Loreroot are I am sure.

Edited by Firsanthalas
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I would like to point out, that I never wanted to start a rebellion or revolution. I always wanted and will help a friend in need, this might have been difficult to see. It is sad things turned out that way (as I sad before multiple times.

I never wanted to harm Loreroot or even the now poor Savelites. As I see history little by little I am getting involved in a big piece a dung.

To say to Firs, I think it was unfair to put me in jail and I like to return to my former state.

I rather like to be lorerootian again,
I rather like to be a savelites again,
For which i accept the rules of Loreroot.

I am sad my reputation between all players now got bad because of this, this is something which cannot be rewinded.

Thank you all for your support my friends and you good words to me. I wont forget.

To conclude, I speak for myself here, not for any others.

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My decision to excommunicate Blackwood was based on the fact that he appeared to be in league with a group set on rebellion and refusing to accept the laws of citizenship and Loreroot. I would like to say that I did discuss with other people before I made the decision. Some may say that he never said 'I want to rebel' or 'I do not accept the crown'. However, he did seem to pledge support to Rhaegar while such talk was going on and he didn't seem to play down of object to such things either.
But, let us put semantics aside. I accept that Blackwood has declared that he accept the rules of citizenship. I also accept that Rhaegar is his friend and his alliance leader of old. I respect his feelings of loyalty to Rhaegar and his feeling to support a friend. I have no issue that he is unhappy about things either.
My action was not personal. I apologise to Blackwood if feels that I was attacking or punishing him personally.
I request that Mur remove Blackwood from jail and declare that the excommunication order is revoked in the case of Blackwood Forest. I also feel that he should be allowed to return to the Savelites Church.

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Offtopic posts have been moved to http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/7242-offshoot-from/ if people wish to discuss the topic listed there as opposed to the discussion on the Excommunication

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