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Rangers Of Loreroot


Jubaris
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[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1275924085' post='61252']

I didn't want it to go through the process of papirology and editing so it becomes something I don't want to be at the end, with a good experiance of everything else denied earlier due to possible 'complications'.

[/quote]

(Papirology)?????

I believe this is the meening of it and makes no sence in this post.

[b]Papyrology[/b] is the study of ancient literature, correspondence, legal archives, etc., as preserved in manuscripts written on papyrus, the most common form of writing material in the ancient civilizations of Egypt, Greece, and Rome. Papyrology includes both the translation and interpretation of ancient documents in a variety of languages, as well as the care and preservation of rare papyrus originals.


(On topic)

Please clarify the asbove as it make you last comment in a form that is not understandable.

Edited by Yrthilian
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This will be a lengthy one, but I need to explain myself to avoid as much misinterpretations as possible.
This went too far anyway, but we're where we are.
to make few things sure: this is my opinion, and I'm trying to make improvements for my homeland here by starting some things and not "charging" at anyone (Firs) to get killed or whatever. I answered arrogantly cause I got sick of the situation, and this is how I think about it.

@ Yrth:
heh, it's kinda ironic that you correct my typos or bad expressions since I noticed you care less about that :D

meant it as going through the whole process of scanning, editing, modifications, 'replacement parts'.


@the rest:

now, I understand and know that they are perfectly right from your points of view, Mya and Mike, if you take things for granted, we have a King, obey him to the word, etc. In my opinion, he got elected, thus he needs to work his way for people to respect his title for a reason. Loreroot has 3 developed alliances, that are active, have their own structures and background. How da hell should we voice our ideas, opinions, anything, if we don't have forums of our own, if we don't have a council where MORE people would share THEIR own thoughts and reasons, since loreroot is made of a 3 different factions! Cause that is a difference with Necrovion for example. Not sure how it goes with Jester, but before, Khalazdad's dynasty, they are chosen by the shades to represent them, shades who are the ultimate power of Necrovion, so they can fit the land how they want basically, its like it was theirs completely, private property, you can't defy the shades, they're > you, etc. But Loreroot doesn't have something like that, and to drop a, in essence divine figure (cause that's basically the definition of a king, you can't doubt his actions... etc.) and expect everyone to play along, 'you just happen to be the perfect one, god forbids if you have different opinion then him, he shapes our future' is close to absurd... It's different if you have a figure who would be a representative of Loreroot for Mur, who would be able to react quickly, make own decisions etc, different than the 'supreme ruler' who basically owns the land. Loreroot [s]doesn't[/s] shouldn't be that way, since you can't form idea of one man and alliance into a 3 different ones. Firsanthalas, I think, knows that well (it's up to the human element of the kings feature after all to make them more fitting towards their land, not the feature itself.), and his answer to it wasn't to do something to unite the essences of factions in a way, but just to avoid getting in conflict over it at all, doing nothing. (cause, on Loreroot's government structure, he did nothing. Congratulations for his own personal works of coop with Kriskah, and similar, but this is not about that.)

Firsanthalas says he can be easily approached. Ok. I won't deny he was good with some things. But in all of the suggestions and talks, there was a tone of skepticism, like 'what he wants to accomplish with this now, what's the catch'. Do you Firs, saw me as danger or what I don't know, but I noticed it and it evolved into this, cause of that skepticism you built skepticism for you in me.

the way I see it, as being supposedly one of people in Loreroot who can be counted as having some decision power, this got denied cause, it wasn't a bad idea, but I haven't asked for approval. The way I see it, there aren't number of individuals who can make some decisions for the land (of Loreroot, all lands have different nature) other than the king himself (if the thing doesn't contradict the nature of the land radically - and this haven't, why wouldn't fitting representatives be able to create things?), tho it should definitely.
Well that's the problem, idea got banned cause the "supreme ruler" didn't approve it, for everything related to Loreroot must be approved by him, which sucks (:D) due to diversity of LR people and its specific nature.

don't think he didn't know about all those issues, he did cause I talked about with him, he just had lack of will to get troubled by it, to actually make a structure or forums to announce his things to all of us (and I don't know the exact details of the past events when LR forums were a problem, but to avoid confusion, this is not running away from MD, making secret stuff away from public MD forums and so on, it's just kinda lame if everyone else can see what are you trying to make in your own homeland, or when idea is in progress and not finalized and needs help of other individuals, it doesn't have the same effect if it's announced in MD with full project finished, and due to major difference in time zones of LRians, you can't expect people to meet up and talk in game - that would certainly be much more realistic and better in any case for the game.)

Loreroot has many people (maybe most populated of lands in MD) and 3 independent alliances, with many creative minds going to waste if they are not pushed into the right direction, the options opened for them, etc.
That's my point and I hope this incident will have a result as improvement of things and realization of the issues in Loreroot.


[b]edit: I don't want to replace the king, I just want some things to change. If I believed that Firsanthalas is a (total) failure then I would act right a way. He just needs to wake up [/b]

Edited by Rhaegar Targaryen
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What the hell? This seems nothing but a mindless rant against firsen :D

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1275932050' post='61277']
In my opinion, he got elected, thus he needs to work his way for people to respect his title for a reason.
[/quote]

he got elected QED he already HAD the respect for that title, because YOU voted for him.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1275932050' post='61277']
Loreroot has 3 developed alliances, that are active, have their own structures and background. How da hell should we voice our ideas, opinions, anything, if we don't have forums of our own, if we don't have a council where MORE people would share THEIR own thoughts and reasons, since loreroot is made of a 3 different factions!
[/quote]

So do something about it! Talk to him! or start your own unoffical one

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1275932050' post='61277']
Cause that is a difference with Necrovion for example. Not sure how it goes with Jester, but before, Khalazdad's dynasty, they are chosen by the shades to represent them, shades who are the ultimate power of Necrovion, so they can fit the land how they want basically, its like it was theirs completely, private property, you can't defy the shades, they're > you, etc. But Loreroot doesn't have something like that, and to drop a, in essence divine figure (cause that's basically the definition of a king, you can't doubt his actions... etc.) and expect everyone to play along, 'you just happen to be the perfect one, god forbids if you have different opinion then him, he shapes our future' is close to absurd... It's different if you have a figure who would be a representative of Loreroot for Mur, who would be able to react quickly, make own decisions etc, different than the 'supreme ruler' who basically owns the land. Loreroot [s]doesn't[/s] shouldn't be that way, since you can't form idea of one man and alliance into a 3 different ones.
[/quote]

You quoting what a "King" is or isnt has no real point on the matter, They are called Kings but they have been DEMOCRACTICALLY elected. If you didnt want firs, it seems you are in the minority since he was VOTED into power. He wasnt put there, Each and every king were elected. Are you saying that he needs to gain more respect from already having being voted in as king?

Each and every LR person had a vote, im hopeing all of you used it, and You all had the chance to pick someone. If you Rheager wanted to be king, why didnt you go for it? Each land has one "god" like figure that can do what they like. They are not going to be perfect, but you voted for them, and since there was no other real competition in LR you are going to have to like it.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1275932050' post='61277']
Firsanthalas, I think, knows that well (it's up to the human element of the kings feature after all to make them more fitting towards their land, not the feature itself.), and his answer to it wasn't to do something to unite the essences of factions in a way, but just to avoid getting in conflict over it at all, doing nothing. (cause, on Loreroot's government structure, he did nothing. Congratulations for his own personal works of coop with Kriskah, and similar, but this is not about that.)
[/quote]

You seem to be out and out criticizing him here, If so i suggest you make a topic like "Firsen - bad king" or make a coup for Kingship, You cant have a back seat going "he is a bad king" and then not doing anything about it.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1275932050' post='61277']
Firsanthalas says he can be easily approached. Ok. I won't deny he was good with some things. But in all of the suggestions and talks, there was a tone of skepticism, like 'what he wants to accomplish with this now, what's the catch'. Do you Firs, saw me as danger or what I don't know, but I noticed it and it evolved into this, cause of that skepticism you built skepticism for you in me.
[/quote]

Again, come on. Either sit back, shut up and accept your king, Or openly rival him and not be rude about him in snide little comments inside a post.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1275932050' post='61277']
the way I see it, as being supposedly one of people in Loreroot who can be counted as having some decision power, this got denied cause, it wasn't a bad idea, but I haven't asked for approval. The way I see it, there aren't number of individuals who can make some decisions for the land (of Loreroot, all lands have different nature) other than the king himself (if the thing doesn't contradict the nature of the land radically - and this haven't, why wouldn't fitting representatives be able to create things?), tho it should definitely.
Well that's the problem, idea got banned cause the "supreme ruler" didn't approve it, for everything related to Loreroot must be approved by him, which sucks (:D) due to diversity of LR people and its specific nature.
[/quote]

If you didnt notice, The Main GG alliance all didnt want Yrth, they went against him, They didnt sit down and accept what he said, they did something different, and it worked very well. You dont HAVE to follow what he says, It just means it might be harder, but if you are stopped by someone who you quote as seeing you as "as [a] danger" then you surely dont have enough perserverance to follow through. Just because the land of LR doesnt offically sacntion it doesnt mean something cant be run. Your own personal efforts or endevors can be totally different from your place in your land.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1275932050' post='61277']
don't think he didn't know about all those issues, he did cause I talked about with him, he just had lack of will to get troubled by it, to actually make a structure or forums to announce his things to all of us (and I don't know the exact details of the past events when LR forums were a problem, but to avoid confusion, this is not running away from MD, making secret stuff away from public MD forums and so on, it's just kinda lame if everyone else can see what are you trying to make in your own homeland, or when idea is in progress and not finalized and needs help of other individuals, it doesn't have the same effect if it's announced in MD with full project finished, and due to major difference in time zones of LRians, you can't expect people to meet up and talk in game - that would certainly be much more realistic and better in any case for the game.)
[/quote]

If you didnt relise, Prettymuch every alliance has a hidden section that only their alliance, and Mur, can view. Now if you doubt that your king is not talking to everyone in the land, then perhaps you need to ask him for one of these such forums for all of loreroot?

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1275932050' post='61277']
Loreroot has many people (maybe most populated of lands in MD) and 3 independent alliances, with many creative minds going to waste if they are not pushed into the right direction, the options opened for them, etc.
That's my point and I hope this incident will have a result as improvement of things and realization of the issues in Loreroot.
[/quote]

If your "creative minds" are "going to waste if they are not pushed in the right direction" then you lack Perseverance, self planning and if you are relying on your king to tell you exactly what to do then you are severely mistaken what an Kind is mean to do

yes this is a rude topic, But its a response to a rather snide and undermining post about Firsen.

Edited by Chewett
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[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
What the hell? This seems nothing but a mindless rant against firsen :D
[/quote]

yes I see what it turned to be. Sad but true.

[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
he got elected QED he already HAD the respect for that title, because YOU voted for him.
[/quote]

correction, "I" didn't vote for him.

[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
So do something about it! Talk to him! or start your own unoffical one
[/quote]

You haven't been reading, of course we talked.

[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
You quoting what a "King" is or isnt has no real point on the matter, They are called Kings but they have been DEMOCRACTICALLY elected. If you didnt want firs, it seems you are in the minority since he was VOTED into power. He wasnt put there, Each and every king were elected. Are you saying that he needs to gain more respect from already having being voted in as king?
[/quote]

making someone a leader for life is hardly democratic, and MD isn't democratic as the king feature wasn't democratically brought, the democratic thing about that was that people were able to choose the options. That's not the problem here.

in any case, he was chosen to be king, meaning to lead Loreroot, it's not about rewarding people for being most achievable in their land, but to be the ones who would make the things happen for their land, that's the part of gaining respect as king.

[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
Each and every LR person had a vote, im hopeing all of you used it, and You all had the chance to pick someone. If you Rheager wanted to be king, why didnt you go for it? Each land has one "god" like figure that can do what they like. They are not going to be perfect, but you voted for them, and since there was no other real competition in LR you are going to have to like it.
[/quote]

obviously, I'm trying to point that out and change that.

[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
You seem to be out and out criticizing him here, If so i suggest you make a topic like "Firsen - bad king" or make a coup for Kingship, You cant have a back seat going "he is a bad king" and then not doing anything about it.
[/quote]

I'm criticizing him here so he can work to improve things that are going wrong or not going at all! It's not a matter of a personal dislike or anything like that, I'm hoping this will turn out to be productive.
It's up to his reactions to my thoughts how the things will evolve, as you noticed, this only had started.

[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
Again, come on. Either sit back, shut up and accept your king, Or openly rival him and not be rude about him in snide little comments inside a post.
[/quote]

wow, don't know but this reminds me of an invitation to prove my intentions from virtual world to reality, only you are taunting me with doing things in game instead of in forums... wow, really impressive Chewy :D
as I said, I 'attacked' his behavior for him to work on changing some things. What will follow from his answers will shape my decisions.


[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
If you didnt notice, The Main GG alliance all didnt want Yrth, they went against him, They didnt sit down and accept what he said, they did something different, and it worked very well. You dont HAVE to follow what he says, It just means it might be harder, but if you are stopped by someone who you quote as seeing you as "as [a] danger" then you surely dont have enough perserverance to follow through. Just because the land of LR doesnt offically sacntion it doesnt mean something cant be run. Your own personal efforts or endevors can be totally different from your place in your land.
[/quote]

yes, due to Grido's friendships and similar, he stepped up after Yrthilian kicked him out, and teamed up with other discontented GGers, so that really isn't a good example of a good-timing-revolutionary-squad.


[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
If you didnt relise, Prettymuch every alliance has a hidden section that only their alliance, and Mur, can view. Now if you doubt that your king is not talking to everyone in the land, then perhaps you need to ask him for one of these such forums for all of loreroot?
[/quote]

I don't really trust entirely the objectivity of moderators of this forum. It is natural for humans to be curious, I'm sure you were too in your own moments.


[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
If your "creative minds" are "going to waste if they are not pushed in the right direction" then you lack Perseverance, self planning and if you are relying on your king to tell you exactly what to do then you are severely mistaken what an Kind is mean to do
[/quote]

it isn't about him commanding people on what to do, it's about making options for people to step up.
Creating some kind of lands plans on infrastructure (or whatever plans there could be for a king to make for the land), goals, and next part is easy, organizing of the land towards making those goals. Yet, there is no plan.

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....um ya Hi....Rhaegar, I respect you. In the short time I've been here, you have become a good friend, but I feel as though you are making a mountain out of a mole hill as it were. Somehow I think you've had all this animosity built up for quite a while towards things. I could be wrong but it just seems to me like this is a whole lot of back logged anger toward Firsan. I've gotten to know several people here and among all of them Firsan seems like one of the most fair minded and calm people, making him an idle choice to lead. I'm also under the impression that you haven't actually talked to him about deep rooted issues that you have or any ideas that you've gathered, instead letting it all fester into what is now a two page topic that has become a rant. For the sake of stability and sanity. I ask you please lay down the sword and come to the table and discuss your ideas with Firs. He may disagree with some of them but he may also offer advice of how to make things better. I would hope this does not come to a head and things are taken too seriously in and out of game. Thats my piece sorry if it's not my place.

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To reiterate, and clarify, the Eclipse is not a separate faction from the Guardians. Frictions between our members have arisen, but we work to resolve them as quickly as possible. Loreroot prides itself on diversity, but there is an important caveat: [i]personal differences will not shape Eclipse policy.[/i] We of the Eclipse support the king, period, end of story. Does the king make mistakes? He is human. We do not discuss his mortal frailty with outsiders (and I, who am not renowned for my kindness or patience, tend to quash grumbling in Eclipse ranks entirely).

I grow impatient with this discussion. It makes Loreroot seem weak. I have asked you politely, Princ Rhaegar, my friend and ally, to desist. You have decided not only to disregard my advice, but to sharpen your criticism. You undermine the king's authority with this public "discussion", and I cannot abide that. I like the idea of the Rangers very much, but my duty is to Loreroot and its king first. Consider the implications of your words, and seek another avenue of approach.

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[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1275937198' post='61285']
making someone a leader for life is hardly democratic, and MD isn't democratic as the king feature wasn't democratically brought, the democratic thing about that was that people were able to choose the options. That's not the problem here.
[/quote]

He isnt leader for life, you can ask for a election if you think people would vote for someone else.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1275937198' post='61285']

I'm criticizing him here so he can work to improve things that are going wrong or not going at all! It's not a matter of a personal dislike or anything like that, I'm hoping this will turn out to be productive.

It's up to his reactions to my thoughts how the things will evolve, as you noticed, this only had started.
[/quote]

There is a difference from being helpful and suggesting and prompting people, and being rude. You are being the latter of the two. And it doesnt really work as a persuasion to do something.


[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1275937198' post='61285']

wow, don't know but this reminds me of an invitation to prove my intentions from virtual world to reality, only you are taunting me with doing things in game instead of in forums... wow, really impressive Chewy :D
as I said, I 'attacked' his behavior for him to work on changing some things. What will follow from his answers will shape my decisions.
[/quote]

Unless you havent read what i wrote, to me there is a lot of difference, One impleys phsyical violance and the other is trying to get you to stop complaining and do something, Massively similar.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1275937198' post='61285']
yes, due to Grido's friendships and similar, he stepped up after Yrthilian kicked him out, and teamed up with other discontented GGers, so that really isn't a good example of a good-timing-revolutionary-squad.
[/quote]

Wow, and he managed to do something, wheras you? have just complained yet. When something happened he didnt like, he took action and made something happen.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1275937198' post='61285']
it isn't about him commanding people on what to do, it's about making options for people to step up.
Creating some kind of lands plans on infrastructure (or whatever plans there could be for a king to make for the land), goals, and next part is easy, organizing of the land towards making those goals. Yet, there is no plan.
[/quote]

Yeah, and every king has all these plans in infrastructure. All of the kings has done similar. So personally claiming that he hasnt done very much, Is rather poor since all the other kings have done similar amounts. Perhaps you forget the part he played in getting the regen timers and alliance stat modification?

Your entire post reminds me of the MD'ers that go "MD is boring, There is nothing to do" Now i get really annoyed about these people, My response to them is always along the lines of "If MD is boring, Make some fun or Leave, We do not force you to stay" You dont have to Work with the current system, you can work against it, change it, Or just accept it and do nothing.

All the people who complain that its boring and this and that are just being a misery. LEAVE if you think its boring, we do not make you play.

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[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]Rhaegar, we had an inter-alliance meeting a short time ago. At no time did you mention the Rangers idea. That was when you should have mentioned it. Firs asked several times if we covered everything. I liked the idea, but I cannot support it at this point.

I do not blindly follow Firs either. It may appear that way, but I'm not Firsan's 'yes man'. If he tosses an idea at me, I tell him what I think about it.

People seem to be under the delusion that Firs can just say, "Hey, Mur, do this" and he does it. That's not the way it works. Sometimes Mur says 'yes', and sometimes he says 'no'. I realize that the Rangers really doesn't have anything to do with Mur, but I bet some of your hostility toward Firs is because you aren't getting what you wanted from Mur.[/font][/color]

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@Mya: sometimes i just don't say anything, but i listen. I have lots of requests pending that i might or i might not eventually solve, that i might or i might not eventually explain why not. Just wanted to add the middle point of the yes/no thing.

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[quote name='Chewett' date='07 June 2010 - 02:21 PM' timestamp='1275934895' post='61280']
Each and every king were elected.
[/quote]
Untrue.
There were only three elections. Yrthilian was placed on the throne as the king; he was appointed to the position, not elected.

There was a vote taken to see if he should remain as the king, yes, but that was a wholly different event than the real elections that occurred for the other three lands.

It is important that it be known that Yrthilian was never elected by either the citizenry of Golemus Golemicarum nor of any other land.


Regarding the issue at hand:
"Princ" Rhaegar has shown that he is not a loyal citizen of the land of Loreroot, openly defying and insulting its ruler. There is really only one solution to the crime of high treason.

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Really.. it's come down this way huh?

Funny thing is how Rhaegar stated that he had discussed the idea with Firs and was turned down for a reason, yet Firs stated here that if Rhaegar had talked with him, this mostly wouldn't have been a problem.

I do not know who, but someone's had a short term memory loss. Maybe both parties should step back a bit and review their previous actions/words in case either of you remembers other forgotten stuffs.

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Ud, there was a meeting held a while ago. Rhaegar, Clockmaster, Amoran, Tarquinus, Mya and myself were there. As Mya said earlier, there was no mention of any 'Rangers' group brought up.
Princ did bring up an idea a long time ago about an elite group, but I rejected that for very simple reasons. I don't want to go into it, but suffice it to say that the purpose of this group would have resulted in a lot of arguments, not just within Loreroot, but beyond it too.
For the record, setting up a group of people to assist with training was discussed. However, there was never any mention of forming any kind of guild at all. It was also said that we would meet up and evaluate things later on (I may be in error here, but given that Mike is currently in jail and his name was mentioned, I am sure that is correct).
I don't need to justify myself by the way. Princ's words and actions are here for everyone to see. If defying and threatening the king, saying you don't accept them and are not a citizen of the land is not a declaration of treason I really don't know what is. A citizen doesn't have to agree with me, they don't have to like every decision, but they do have to acknowledge the ruler. If they can't or won't do that, then they have no place in the land. On a final note, you can say that I am taking this personally. However, as king, I have a duty of care to the land and the title of king. It would be a failure for me to not prosecute such wanton acts of treason, which would weaken and devalue the position of king.

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This is all my personal vision not the views of the Children of the Eclipse.

I spent quite some time with Rhaegar on the Rangers which was just ready to be announced.
Whats WAS it about. Collecting strong fighters to bring together their secrets and knowledge
to make eachother stronger, not only that but to create strong fighters by having students.
Honestly I think if I personaly had announced it instead of Rhaegar their wouldnt have
been such a big deal about it. However I didnt. and its shut down simply because you
Firsanthalas wasnt asked? I didnt realise we are not allowed to create groups for the
betterment of the entire land. Infact I dont know what I can and cant do at all. Would it
have been so hard to pull aside and say something like "hey if you want to make groups and
such can you run it past me first please i dont want any crap in OUR land" really?

This infact was the first of three planned groups, That in my opinion and of others I have
spoken with would have been really good for UNITY instead isnt it funny this has led to
war?

I really couldnt care less about the insults that followed simply because the whole
issue could have been settled with a simple calm conversation. Instead the announcement
was taken as a personal insult. due to Rhaegar and Firsanthalas' checkered past.

At the end of the day. I will no longer teach anyone in Loreroot apart from my own
Knights should I retain my position. IF this comes to war. I wont fight, Id sooner leave
untill its over.

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Sparrhawk,
You or anyone else are free to work on a project such as you have. What you have to realise, is that nobody can simply start announcing things such as guilds of a land, or titles as being final or a matter of fact. Also, I am one person, you are many. It is simply not possible for me to be checking in on each and every person to see if they might have something cooking. I just can't, it isn't possible. You each have alliance leaders, then there is me. YOu can discuss things with your leaders and ask them to discuss it with me, or you can simply ask me directly. Rhaegar himself said that he didn't bring it to my attention because I would shoot it down. What is he now a mind reader? That in itself is an admition that he sought to undermine me. I cannot allow that. It is not a case of me trying to get credit for the work or ideas of other people. I don't do that. Look at the crest/logo/coat of arms. Had I seen it I could have pointed out the potential for problems it would cause. This is exactly the kind of thing Rhaegar slams me for.
The sad fact remains, that this whole debacle arose because some person or persons decided that they know best and have no need to answer to any higher power. They do. Had they done so, we would not be having this discussion right now. I think it is pretty unfair to try to blame me for someone elses mistake. I have never intentionally shown you any disrespect. I have said to people that I value your martial strength and contributions to the land. But I do feel right now, that you have little if any respect for me.
I don't understand the need to work on things in secret. I am sure that there are people who can attest to the fact that I do lend my support to things and do not seek to take-over or obstruct them.

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Here is a thought.

Lets for a second imagine that the King of Loreroot is Mur.

Decisions, developments, decrees, plans are not executed fast enough (sounds familiar?)

Will the reaction still be the same?

Probably (like what we are seeing in MD)

But the point of the matter is that Firsan is King, elected by both citizens and non citizens of Loreroot and approved by Mur.

Just because Firsan is not Mur, words become harsher, politeness is thrown out the window.

Just like Mur, Firsan too face the same problems of running a land.

But doesn’t he deserve the respect of being the King if not the same respect accorded to Mur?

I personally feel the idea of Rangers has its merits but executed without going through the proper channels. True that bureaucracy shouldn’t be a hindrance but it has reasons for being there.

The jailing was based on the reaction received after the King’s announcement. Not because of that idea itself.

I believe the Rangers idea can still be executed, but a sit down with everyone (King and leaders of Loreroot)to discuss it first is a prerequisite.

Lets not cloud our feelings with jailings that was done.

Lets move forward.

Set a meeting to discuss the matter.

If the meeting itself is an issue, send the working paper of the rangers to the King.

Let the King get the feedback from the Loreroot leaders.

I would love to join the Rangers, but let it be a legal one approved by the powers that be.

*smile*

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I have felt disrespected by this whole thing I feel I have a right to feel that way.

The MD way has always been DONT ask for things to happen just go and do it
I cant magically know this is different in Loreroot without being told infact id love
to see this list of rules.

You speak of respect and how it must be given. Respect works both ways and respect is
earnt or lost not given. Firsanthalas I respect the fact the greater population of
Loreroot believed in you to become king, it is why I have never critisised you publicly
before even though I may have gripes.

My opinion remains. a kind word would have been much more effective. and would have in
my opinion prevent what has happened. Firsanthalas you and Princ Rhaegar both want to
work for good of loreroot and because of the past and grudges neither of you from what
I have seen or heard speak to each other if they dont have to. My posts may seem more harsh
against you if you want to know why here is the answer, You are the King of Loreroot for
good or for ill. Position of power have power alot of it at times. but more is expected
of you because you have this power. shoot me down for having my opinions disagree I do not
care but read what I have said and think about it.

The Rangers will not exist. It was as much my idea as it was Rhaegars, even though
he was to have nothing to do with its runnings using the idea or any of the other two
group ideas to me would be wrong. If anyone wants to create something with the same vision
they can feel free.

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Sparrhawk,

The issue is not the idea, it never was. The idea has merit. The issue was the manner in which it was simply declared as being official and the reaction afterwards. They say that the road to hell is paved with the best intentions.
For starters, if a guild or group is supposed to be somehow representative of a land, then it must go through a process whereby others can see it and give their opinions. If you wish to build a house or start a company, there are things you have to do. Planning permission, registering, patent checks etc etc. You cannot work on something and then simply decide that it is official. It doesn't work that way. Take the COE. The COE did not simply exist officially one day because one or two people decided it was a good idea. (I know this is an extreme example and not entirely the same, but you get the idea).
There is a tendency for people to get an idea and want to push it through quickly without really considering the consequences. Furthermore, if people are running around working on projects or plans without telling people, how do you know that it is not going to interfere with other things going on? You could have two groups working on essentially the same thing simultaneously, yet independently.
Consider the land as a company called Loreroot Inc. You have the department managers, Tarquinus, Marvolo, Mya, The Sybil and a few others perhaps, and then you have the MD, the king. A company organises itself and determines what resources and personnel go into different tasks, like R & D, or product creation, marketing etc. You may be on a development team, but other people in the company will be involved at some point, be it packaging, branding, marketing, pricing, or whatever.
It works because there is management and communication. If the R & D department decided to take it upon themselves to research, develop, manufacture and market a product and then distribute it without anyone else knowing what would happen?
The issue is not about control for the sake of control, but for the sake of the sanity and image of Loreroot Inc.
You don't want the stock value of Loreroot Inc to tumble and leave it open to a hostile takeover or near bankruptcy do you?

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[color="#2e8b57"][i]Guys...

Its heartbreaking to see the leaders of a land that I love so much, bicker with each other. Please sit down and talk about this, put your egos aside and just say sorry I f'd up and move on. Rangers of Loreroot would have been a fantastic idea, its a pity that it didnt go through the proper channels. Firsan is king of Loreroot, and should at least know the goings on of his own land. If he didnt he would be criticised as not be vigiliant enough. Sparr you are a reasonable chap, and you are a good fighter that I respect. Your skills are valued, and it would be beneficial to LR if you and Firs could talk this out.

[/i][/color]

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My issue remains.

I cannot know something is one way without previous being told.

What example can I use. My country is technically run by parliment who answer to the queen.
If I wanted to start the New Zealand snorklers guild I could no problems. No one owns the
name New Zealand. The Rangers never claimed to have king support. It was infact stated
after it was non-governmental and unofficial.

I have no ego in this. I am talking about an issue. Which wasnt chosen by myself to be
aired in public as it started that way it should end that way.

If I am the only one to stand up and tell my king his farts dont smell like cinnamon
then I am here and no one can say I didnt stand for what I believe.

It is obvious we have differing views on loreroots structure. but if you move that aside
there still remains the fact that as a citizen I wasnt aware of that.

I am accused of secretly planning groups to help Loreroot. I talked to a few people.
I gained support of people and I had many interested. but lets turn the tables.

LRs biggest issue since I have been apart of it has always been transperency. I was here
during Ravens rule, During the high council where the Knator Commander wasnt given his
due respect. During the Golemus war. things havnt changed alot. Just like back then
you dont know whats going on if your a common citizen the only difference is back then
there was a forum where you might pick up a few breadcrumbs.

Transperency and communication are still an issue. If you want all your citizens to act
a certain way you have to communicate this to them, since you became king I havnt heard
anything of what you plan to do, been asked any opinions and I can only conclude in this
the general public or "common citizens" havnt either. I dont doubt you have things brewing.
but as usual its all secret also. The general public the common citizens voted you as king
and they deserve to know what it is you plan to do with our land.

But I am the only one to see all of this or at least the only one who will stand up
and say no this isnt right. Well im standing alright and I can tell you im not smelling
cinnamon.

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Sparrhawk.
I am not accusing you of planning anything in secret. I am simply saying that it was never brought to my attention before being made public. You say that Knator Commander was not respected, yet it seems ok for that trend to continue? Announcing any guild, governmental or otherwise while using the name of a land gives the impression that it is official or endorsed. Right now, Mur has forbidden people to use the name or part of a name of a land for a single person. Yet it is ok to use it for an entire group? And one that, as you say yourself is supposed to be unofficial? Can you not see the issue here at all?

On a final note about guilds. Only Mur can setup a guild. We can setup a group in the hopes that it will be recognised as a guild in time. But ultimately that power rests with Mur. So anyone declaring guilds could result in Mur's wrath.

And I say again. You cannot expect me to be able to speak to each and every person in Loreroot individually. When have you ever sought to speak to me? When have I ever refused to speak to you? As for transparency, I am transparent. I do speak to the leaders of the various alliances in Loreroot. (The fact that it is public knowledge that Rhaegar and myself have had problems since day one illustrates that fact.) I make my views very clear to them and they let me know too. Suddenly announcing guilds is not transparency is it? And it is disrespectful to the king.
One of the issues that has plagued Loreroot is this sense that people can do as they please with no consideration for the impact it may have on their fellow citizens, MD in general and Mur even. You may even think that this is not a big deal, but that is where it starts.

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Call it a group, call it a guild, call it a gathering, call it a fairy circle, put any spin
on it you like. You can compare to anything you please but at the end of the day it doesnt change
the fact that you have ignored the point in everything I have said. You have never made it clear
what a citizen can and cannot do. This whole situation is proof that this has not been made clear.
There has been no communication on this. You can say all you want, I am at fault and I will accept
that. I accept that if you had been told first this might not have happened. But at the same time
it would not have happened if I knew I could not do it.

And the fact remains that no common people know what is planned in LR. I would like to know
and I can guarantee if you ask the general population if they want to know you will get the
majority saying yes.

I know about the Rhaegar issue as he is my friend and we talk, everyone else knows as it has been
aired out in public numerous times. That is not leadership transperency.

I have said everything objectively but none of it has sunk in.

I don't understand why you refuse to admit any fault.

There are two kinds of kings.

The first surrounds himself with "yes men" who will glorify his every action. They turn even
his passing of gas into an epic sonnet.

The second seeks council from those who are not afraid of the king, from those who will speak their
honest truth. Those who will tell their king its not polite to gas their chambers with
such a noxious odour.

Fear does not breed loyal citizens.

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