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Stop Ggg


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I don't understand the concern of the MP5 about GGG. I spend a lot of time there, and I rarely see any MP5.actually, at GGG, there usually are 3-4 MP4, occasionally 5-6. Indeed, a while ago, there were alot of MP5, but not lately.
Since at MP4 there is no way to loose personal experience, GGG is the only option to train, in order to have any chance to play the game when advancing to MP5. Gaining stats through usual fighting is limited by the exp cap. It is not fun to train all day at GGG for several years. It is actually boring. But is the only way.Otherwise I am sure I will be able to defeat few players at MP5, and will eventually quit the game.
Those MP5 who are against GGG have only one reason to close it: they want new weak players to get to MP5 asap, so they can slaughter them easily. They want easy wins.This is the real reason. In other words, they want to make the whole MD a training ground for them, but with no rules (where only veterans will train, and the younger players will act as training dummies). But this is not going to happen, with or without GGG. No one is going to play this game for the only purpose of giving easy wins to veterans.I guess everyone have better things to do than play as dummies for the veterans.
I advise all MP4 to make an alt (at least), and get to MP5 with that alt, instead of ruining their main account. If they can manage to play with the alt, then they can advance with the main account. The game is very unbalanced at MP5, since it allows ppl to train there as much as they want with no exp cap restrictions. Mp5 players will say that GGG makes the game as much as unbalanced as MP5 is (or even more). They are wrong. because of the exp cap, players who grinds stats at MP4 won't harm weaker players, since they don't need anymore exp (if they would need exp, they wouldn't train at GGG). And if they want experience, they can get it at GGG from bursts anyway.

If you want to destroy GGG, I would suggest to reset the game first, then make all MP not able to loose personal experience (so that MP5 veterans will be forced to move to MP6, and so on). Protect the new players before destroying their only hope. Or you will have no more new players that will play for more than 2 months.

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ba no more GGG to Mp5 i only see Mp4 in that location and thanks for send me to the GoE, veterans only use drachoms angiens max......
to get stats from me ???? ^_^

they dont learning, or teaching how to fight but a lot of how to run, a Sanctuary its = to logo out, if you are not talking with someone :)

the hard way kill weak people when you can get a lot of tokens principles and pay via phone buy +attack or df

are you bored with the click well kill someone then run to sanctuary, and back in 8 min its too fun :)

Give solutions like Fyrd (his quest i dont c a lot of players when they do that)
yoshi, cutler... ;)


:P if u read this u get a hug

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Constructive criticism, huh?

Well, nice try, but you're wrong.
If people advanced as they should, the constant influx on mp5 is enough to not get smashed too often.

The few fighting veterans can be avoided.
Just lately, as in since 6 months, it happened that people didn't advance. I know whom to blame, but blaming doesn't make things better.
So, of course the people who advance get smashed badly, there are too little targets on mp5, we need to take the same over and over again.

It is at this point impossible to play MD properly, because the 2 people who advance each week can't stand against anybody in mp5, naturally, and give up and create an alt.

Once 10 advance each week again, the cycle will work properly once more.

Anyways, that was in response to Bronzo, here's what i'm here for:

From this point onwards, ggg is non-existant on any mp-level but 5.
I have the tools, and i have the will, to be very cruel to each and every mp4 who still is there.

I've left them a note, even:
[quote]Note to all MP4!
So, there are still many MP4 around here.

That's okay, no problem, train as you wish.

I would like you to know that i, Burns, will come in every now and then and give out free xp to you. Roughly 1 million.

You might wonder how, but, that's none of your business. All you need to know is that you won't know when or how my gift is going to hit you ^_^

Also, if i get a complaint from people being threatened into setting ggg-defences, or attacked for not being set, i will give an even higher gift to those threatening and attacking.

For all the others, no, you don't need to stick to the rules of GGG, no matter what anybody says. No, i won't hit you because you are here to tackle the ones who still defend it, i know my black sheep. [/quote]

I'm not particularly proud that i have to resort to terrorism to stop this abuse, but, you know me, i don't stop from using such methods when i fight for something that's right.

Advertising this change starts immidately, i will let every mp4 know that ggg doesn't exist anymore. If i must, i'll send a PM to [u]every[/u] [u]single[/u] [u]one[/u].

PS: For clarification, no, i don't have authority to do that, i don't own GGG. As long as the staff doesn't officially agree to that, this is an act of terrorism.

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well, that leaves me only one solution: do nothing else but voting for several years until I get all crits, tokens and boosters from MD shop for my main MP4 account (eventually reset the shop, to get more), and play several alts (which won't get to MP5 either) in this time (or play other games in this time). eventually age some angiens and trade them for coins, with which to buy some more tokened crits. But this way, I will stay more time at MP4 than I would have stayed with GGG working. maybe others will do the same.
How does that sound? no one can make me to get to MP5 any time soon, and no one can make me get to MP5 while I am weak. No one can be forced, not even by terrorism. and by the time I will get to MP5, probably most of the current MP5 veterans will already be MP6 or even more.

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[quote name='Burns' date='27 June 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1277672419' post='62791']
Fortunately enough, you are only partially right.
I can't force you to enter mp5, correct.
I can stop you playing mp4, though, and i can do that very effectively^^
[/quote]
[color="#008000"]What about to those who have never even entered the GGG. Players like me who learned of the GGG and said: Its not worth my time. I've never gotten out of MP3, but then again I also quit for over 2 years and just came back. From what I've read from your latest posts is just threats to stop people from enjoying the game. Yes. something like GGG is a good way to increase characters, but really. its easy enough enough now for us lower mp's to get creature increases from just walking around. The only problem is for you mp5's that have to use the GGG. Mp4s that use the GGG and never leave are never seen, and are not really conversing with anyone and are doing absolutely nothing. They could most likely just be alts, but yes you can stop them from playing mp4, but you won't just stop them from playing that if you use force. You will make them quit the game and they will never ever get to mp5. Does this sound like a much better solution?[/color]

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@Bronzometh

As i see it you will never catch up with the (fighting) vets while on mp3/4 (nor later really) only thing what you achieve is that when you finally go mp5 with your tokens and stats you will become one of them from newpie point of view and until that you are a pain for new ones at mp4

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well i agree with the rules for mp4 maybe in alliance they can

no more GGG in the mood

no more Mp4 (non alliance) (alliance yes becaus they have abit more RP i think)

no more Mp3

maybe no more burst if u want one u should try to ask for the burst via pm

please more solutions if i critic well u do the same with the (past) GGG

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[quote name='Miq' date='28 June 2010 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1277683458' post='62804']
@Bronzometh

As i see it you will never catch up with the (fighting) vets while on mp3/4 (nor later really) only thing what you achieve is that when you finally go mp5 with your tokens and stats you will become one of them from newpie point of view and until that you are a pain for new ones at mp4
[/quote]

Why would I be a pain for MP4? with all my crits and tokens I will have in the future, I will not terrorize any MP4. I will try to help them as much as I can instead (those who worth being helped, of course - don't want to help someone who might become as Burns in the future). I even started to grow angiens for newbs with my alts. they are still too young to be of any use to anyone atm, but when they will be 120 days old, they will be usefull, and new players will be able to train some good crits before getting to MP5.

I noticed that Burns allows GGG to exist for MP5. This might be tempting for MP4 to get to MP5, hoping they could use GGG there. That's what I was thinking after I first red his post. But then, I remember that there are some MP5 players that constantly destroys MP5 defensive rits at GGG. So, in fact, there will be no GGG for MP5 either.As No One said in the first post, he wants GGG closed. Didn't mentioned he wants it close only for MP3 and MP4. Besides, GGG is almost as non existent for MP5 for about a week, since I rarely saw any MP5 there in the last week. as for MP3, I never saw more than 2-3 ppl there, and I was encouraging them to advance to MP4 (because some of them intend to stay at MP3 for a long time). There were actually only several MP4 constantly using GGG (about 5 palyers).
GGG is not the reason why ppl don't want to advance to MP5. there are alot more MP4 players than those 5 GGG grinders. You should find the reason why they don't want to advance to MP5, and not be concerned by 5 players. Even though the reason is quite obvious, you just cant see it (or pretend you don't see it, and blame GGG).

You will not achieve your goal by closing GGG, simply because GGG is not the reason why ppl don't want to go to MP5.

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Absolutely correct, GGG is not the reason why people don't want to advance.

However, GGG is the reason why people can play endlessly without advancing.
And what they do, and what you do, is quite simply scaring newbies away. You complain that mp5 is so hard. What d'you think how a new mp4 feels when looking at nadrolski's tree with 5k defence? Huh?
Does he think 'Oh, what a nice guy, he lets me have a free win or two', or do they think 'OMG, he has 5k defence, i have 20... I can stop playing now, i'll never beat that'?

When they advance to mp5, they know that they enter the fighting level, where the vets lurk. Where they will get smacked around the head repeatedly before they understand what to do. Where they'll even lose to the dead idlers for a long time. Where they will encounter drachorns, tokens and angiens.
When they advance to mp4, they don't even know the lorerootian creatures, and are far from understanding tokens, drachs and angiens. And yet, they have to deal with vets with stats, tokens and creatures some (rather most) mp5 never get.

And that's why i can't and won't leave you be. Not because i need targets, i have enough, and i won't be around much to kill them either way.
But because YOU frustrate newbies after a week, not after 2 months. The difference is that after a week, a frustrated player leaves, after 2 months, a frustrated player has tools, knowledge and friends to overcome the frustration and get deeper into MD.

And in response to all the rest: I've been talking to people far too long. I've been talking for ages. Reasoning bounces off their egocentrical picture of the world like rain off the lotus leaves. The time for idle chatting is over. It sometimes takes extreme measures to change a flawed system, like an ally-takeover, or a 3-day trip to MP6 to get 2 hour movelocks. This time, it's the forceful disbanding of ggg for the newbies.

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[quote name='Burns' date='28 June 2010 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1277708552' post='62828']
And what they do, and what you do, is quite simply scaring newbies away. You complain that mp5 is so hard. What d'you think how a new mp4 feels when looking at nadrolski's tree with 5k defence? Huh?
Does he think 'Oh, what a nice guy, he lets me have a free win or two', or do they think 'OMG, he has 5k defence, i have 20... I can stop playing now, i'll never beat that'?
[/quote]
Ask them what they think. I'd be willing to bet that they think the former more.


But if mp4s join an alliance for a preview, they will see drachorns & tokens galore (validating their suspicions). Of course they will stand no chance against most attacks, and at the current rate they never will by using only public creatures & methods, without spending a fortune in the MD Shop. (The only reprieve are angiens. And now with the combat change, they have been made far less effective.)

Ask the mp4 trainees what they find more intimidating: Supercharged drachorns they cannot get, or trees with defense? I've had 420+ active days, and I'm not even halfway to a GG, silver-wise. I just now got enough credits for a rusty.
I thank Mur for avatar creation; I'll be able to get a rein for my 3rd Christmas.


By attacking right and left for stats, mp5s have an aura of heartlessness imposed by the system. I don't know of any vet mp4 who is a threat to most other mp4s. I don't mean combat-wise; I can name several, including myself, that most mp4s stand no chance against in battle. My point is that no superpower mp4 uses his power against other mp4s, because there is no benefit. I.e. no threat.

Most mp4s stand no chance against me (but I don't go around attacking them; I won't get any benefit). Now consider that I stand no chance against most mp5s, who do attack me. This shows you the sheer enormity of the gap, which is, I think, the main reason mp4s don't go to mp5.


Close the gap; fix the combat system. The problem of fearful mp4s will never be solved by force.

Bronzometh is a typical mp4; guys, don't neg rep him for his solid points.


<edit: imprudent question removed>

[quote name='Burns' date='27 June 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1277672419' post='62791']
I can't force you to enter mp5, correct.
I can stop you playing mp4, though, and i can do that very effectively^^
[/quote]
<edit: rudeness removed>

By doing this, you are not pushing people to mp5. They won't go. You are only pushing people into alts. If you terrorize the alts, they'll leave for good.

<edit: rudeness removed>


EDIT1: Ah, wonderful, the -rep is coming to this post. :P
Why? Have I made invalid points? Have I not explained something fully? If so, correct me. Don't -rep just because you don't like the content.
EDIT2: Nevermind edit1. :P

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[quote name='apophys' date='28 June 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1277742971' post='62868']
P.S. I hear that the method for an mp5 to attack mp4s is a bug... you're not abusing bugs, are you, Burnsy?...

EDIT: Ah, wonderful, the -rep is coming to this post. :P
Why? Have I made invalid points? If so, correct me. Don't -rep just because you don't like the content.
[/quote]

I agree with most of your points, However i dont like how you put them across, it was a touch more than rude. And accusing him of abusing bugs because you dont know HOW he does something is more than childish.

For that you get a -rep for me. Just so you dont complain about hidden people -repping you i have told you.

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Thank you, Chewett. I did not realize my imprudence.

I'll try to make it less rude; it was not my intention to flame. :P

I was not trying to accuse Burns of bug use; I just asked... to make sure... Okay, maybe that question would have been better in a PM. I'll do that. ._.

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And there goes one neg rep from me, too

Of course you can't see anything but drachs when you don't look for anything but drachs.
Allies are awesome elite groups, you won't find many ally-people who don't have a bunch of superpower creatures.
Had you ever been to mp5, you'd know that ally-folks are the most awesome elite creme de la creme of mp5, while the rest... they know how to spell drachorn and angien. Sometimes.

And just like dst doesn't need to use her power to be intimitating, you don't need to use it.
By your mere presence, you show people your superiority. And they don't know how to deal with that when they are fresh out of mp3.

[quote]Ask the mp4 trainees what they find more intimidating: Supercharged drachorns they cannot get, or trees with defense? I've had 420+ active days, and I'm not even halfway to a GG, silver-wise. I just now got enough credits for a rusty.
I thank Mur for avatar creation; I'll be able to get a rein for my 3rd Christmas.[/quote]
GG drachs are a goody for people who don't need it anymore. The same goes for reindrachs. Neither of them is necessary for a good fight, as most people who get their drachorns smashed every once in a while will gladly tell you. And, they get smashed quite often.

This very attitude is the problem, even. You don't want to be an mp5 because you are not that great there. You know that you can't beat everybody there, and therefore, let it be. Everybody starts that way.
But, MD is built to challenge that idea, let it grow, and then badly smack it around the head with a big stone after 2 months. By then, you are supposed to realize that you ARE NOT the best, and will never be. And that you will lose against some fighters, at all times. And then you are suppsoed to either leave or grasp the beauty of MD.

GGG, and people like you, delayed that point to the age of 2 weeks instead of 2 months. At that point, only very few have already understood the beauty, and a lot of people with high potential leave, because getting the best fighter is impossible, and nothing else is there to do in their young opinion.

In case you haven't read it out of my post, the neg rep was for pretending to know. It's not a problem to not know, as long as you know that you don't know. You think to know just because you are so old, but that is not the case. You only see what you want to see. That is not a good base to debate with me.

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[quote name='Burns' date='28 June 2010 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1277753146' post='62884']


GGG, and people like you, delayed that point to the age of 2 weeks instead of 2 months. At that point, only very few have already understood the beauty, and a lot of people with high potential leave, because getting the best fighter is impossible, and nothing else is there to do in their young opinion.
[/quote]

[color="#008000"]This is not due to just GGG. That is where you are wrong. Even at mp3 for new players. When they first start to get to where people can attack them and they are just exploring the game. Trying to figure things out and keep getting randomly attacked by players and never able to keep full vitality ever they get annoyed in about 2 weeks and quit or learn to deal with it. These players may never even see the GGG, but yet your putting all the blame on just GGG. where most mp3's never even go to in the first few months, because they are just too busy exploring everything to even know a place like that exists.[/color]

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MD will never have hordes of new comers every day. It would not be as unique as it is, if it did.

Now, having said that.

Mur has not been pumping money into advertising either. That is the real reason behind the lack of newbies sticking around.

MD has many filters, and those filters prevent players from playing. They are not patient, they want special effects, and they do not require the mental capacity to play.

Yes, there are other contributing factors to this, but honestly, the GGG was not as big a problem as others claimed. It was a problem, but not a large one.

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In response to Burns' paragraph about ally-people, I am in an alliance, but there are lots of people who can beat me up. The difference is, I generally avoid them if I don't want to lose, which is rare because I know how to protect myself. I've beaten Burns, and even dst in fights (when they were using training rits...shh don't tell >>), and they've beaten me. I don't mind. The game isn't about winning fights, it's about balance, unless you've forgotten.

MP5 is not supposed to be easy. You are not supposed to be able to just advance and be able to beat anyone you fight with. That's what growth is. That's why you can reduce EXP at MP5. The reason you're still scared to move up is because you're probably capped and aren't growing or getting stronger. You're just sitting there, and until you advance to MP5, you're not going to get any stronger.

As for Reins, Rusties and tokens, those are easy enough to get, if you either support the game (buy them), vote for free credits diligently, trade for credits, or even just get lucky.

If you don't like tokens, and don't want to buy them, then that's your choice, but don't complain when the players that have tokens start beating you up. You have the choice of getting tokens.

If you think of MP levels as skill levels in a chess competition, beginners play against beginners (MP3), moderate (or whatever it would be) plays against moderate (MP4), skilled players play against skilled players (MP5), and the masters (vets) play against whoever challenges them (alliance members). Applying this to MD, right now, beginners and moderate players can become as good and better than the skilled players and masters through GGG. If a moderate player beat a master, would the judge (in this case, Burns) allow the moderate player to continue playing against other moderate players? If you can beat all the other moderate players, and become a skilled player, should you be worried about the other skilled players? Yes! They will beat you, because you are used to playing against moderate players, and you won't know as many techniques as the skilled players. Just because a few skilled players beat you, do you give up on chess forever, or do you practice more, get better, and come back to challenge the skilled players again?

[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/7195-stop-ggg/page__view__findpost__p__60943"]See here[/url] for a possibly clearer explanation.

Yes, that was a long post/rant. Haha.

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[quote name='Burns' date='28 June 2010 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1277753146' post='62884']
Allies are awesome elite groups, you won't find many ally-people who don't have a bunch of superpower creatures.
[...]
ally-folks are the most awesome elite creme de la creme of mp5
[/quote]
I guess being an ally mp5 without superpower crits makes me special, then... and thanks for the compliment... :D
Oh, yes, I rose to mp5 a little while ago. :S
Sorry if it looked like I personally was afraid of mp5; I was speaking for the mp4 who rise to mp5 without even reaching the level I am at.

Balance is overrated, Pip. And I've beaten Phantasm when he was going random. :P

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='28 June 2010 - 12:26 PM' timestamp='1277746009' post='62871']
I am curious, what solutions do you propose, apophys? Bronzometh?

Or anyone else who has been flaming this topic for the past two weeks?
[/quote]

I personally see the GGG as a symptom of an unbalanced combat system. Fix the system and the GGG will evaporate.

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I soooo love this: "fix the system and bla bla". This is like:give me my candy back or I will not play with you anymore.
You people CANNOT adapt!
I was angry when I was a fresh mp5 and I reached max xp and I had to wait for Mur to reset it. I was sad when he implemented skill damage, alt checks, <insert other nasty restrictions here>. When each of these were announced I said to myself:"this is the end. I will not be able to play anymore". I was soooo wrong!!I'm still amazed how good I adapted. And I've learned that if I have patience everything will be solved. "Violence" is not the answer (except when it comes to bugs). And your attitude of "fix it or I will leave" it's just childish.

Do you think that it's normal for an mp4 to have [size="5"][b][color="#FF0000"]10k[/color][/b][/size] attack? I find it horrible!
I will support Burns with every tools I have and I will help him as much as I can.


@apophis: I missed your post today (I saw it after you edited it but I've asked around what you said in it) and I was shocked! You call yourself a vet but you have no idea what Burnsy was talking about? This is the [b][color="#FF0000"]PERFECT[/color][/b] example of what GGG does to players!

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[quote name='VertuHonagan' date='29 June 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1277763106' post='62895']
[color="#008000"]This is not due to just GGG. That is where you are wrong. Even at mp3 for new players. When they first start to get to where people can attack them and they are just exploring the game. Trying to figure things out and keep getting randomly attacked by players and never able to keep full vitality ever they get annoyed in about 2 weeks and quit or learn to deal with it. These players may never even see the GGG, but yet your putting all the blame on just GGG. where most mp3's never even go to in the first few months, because they are just too busy exploring everything to even know a place like that exists.[/color]
[/quote]
But is clearly stated by statistics older then you that most players decide to play (or not) around week 2 (if they get that far). There was always a problem for not having new players and [color="#00FF00"]since GGG even less ppl got to MP5[/color].
Getting kicked was never THE problem, the problem is accepting / acknowledging the lose & win relationship.

[quote name='apophys' date='29 June 2010 - 08:08 AM' timestamp='1277791706' post='62915']
Sorry if it looked like I personally was afraid of mp5; I was speaking for the mp4 who rise to mp5 without even reaching the level I am at.

Balance is overrated, Pip. And I've beaten Phantasm when he was going random. :D
[/quote]

If people would stop speaking "in behalf" and speak for themselves everything would be better.

Also, Balance is overrated as you are not on the edge. (aka : you don't care)
When negative effects happens to you, you will "see" (aka: complain) that Balance is not well thought.

Everything should be dynamic : changes, wins / loses, rituals. If you try to make is static ... it gets boring (like a book you read 10 time).

Anyway, these were today's 2 cents. Have fun.

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[quote name='Bronzometh' date='27 June 2010 - 09:07 PM' timestamp='1277665671' post='62782']


If you want to destroy GGG, I would suggest to reset the game first, then make all MP not able to loose personal experience (so that MP5 veterans will be forced to move to MP6, and so on). Protect the new players before destroying their only hope. Or you will have no more new players that will play for more than 2 months.
[/quote]

This is from my first post. Someone asked me for solution. I suggested the solution in my first post. Resetting the game would be too much. I admit this is not a good solution. but making all MP to not be able to loose personal experience, would be a good solution.

some ppl say that MP4 newbies will be scared by seeing and MP4 with 10K attack. maybe they will, but they will soon realize they have no reason to be scared, since that MP4 with 10K attack will not harm them. And if they didn't come to GGG, they didn't even notice him. More than that, that MP4 with 10K attack (Nadrolski), will actually help them, because he also have about 200K vital energy (400K with burst), and he often give the burst to whoever needs experience for their creatures. Actually, did anyone ever said he/she is scared by Nadrolski, Apophys, The Phoenix, or other MP4 that grind stats at GGG? And if someone said he/she is afraid of them, did he/she gave solid reasons? I can tell you that they NEVER attacked me outside GGG (except Nadrolski, who attacked me once or twice during last HC competition, because I had some heads).

as for MP5, ppl actually have reasons to be scared by those with 10K attack (or more), because they will actually be killed by them. and there will be more and more ppl with huge stats at MP5, and newbies will be attacked more and more.

I played alot of MMORPGs. indeed, in most of them, high lvl players can attack lower lvls, but usually they don't, because they have small gains by attacking low lvl players (so, they don't have reasons to attack them). actually, they loose something by attacking them (either waste time, or energy - something similar to APs here, but probably more important). But here, old MP5 players loose nothing by attacking younger players (except honor maybe, which is not a big deal). This is the big problem with this game. Old players are encouraged to attack young and weak players, a fact that I never saw in other games. I know this game is unique, different from all the other games, but to keep it balanced, there must be a protection system for new players, as other games have. there is a protection system for MP3 and MP4 (the personal exp cap, which doesn't allow ppl like Nadrolski to attack weak players, since he already is close to exp cap). But there's nothing to protect MP5 newbies.

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