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[quote]
BUT there is a player that is amusing themself by coming into the ggg and casting spells that remove a players rit list for a period of time and then using damaging rits to destroy those rits. [/quote]

Does it really? Because I don't think it does... I'm certain it only changes the offensive ritual.

And I'm merely going where my targets go: If they are at GGG, so be it.

Should I cast the spell at GoE (which I won't at current battle rate there) I wouldn't hear anyone about it and if it would not be allowed to use these spells, what's the point in spending WP's on them?

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[quote name='Indyra' date='04 June 2010 - 01:52 AM' timestamp='1275627125' post='60956']
Sorry..i;m lazy and didn;t read the entire thread..but as much as some of you would like GGG closed that won;t stop players to "move it" i another location ...the way is there ..they know how to do it...they can just move to their own private parties ...what will you do then ...haunt, stalk , break their rits if you catch them ? ...i agree that there are some serious stats grinders who we don;t see outside of GGG..but closing it won;t be a solution...yes new player are attacked and "killed" by vets ...so what ? it's called natural selection .. help to much)
[/quote]
Some people may find in some remote locations and continue using the style GGG, beginners will have difficulty in finding it, but despite lots of new people into the game, the number of people online is always same, as we have already seen some of these veterans were banned for abusing alts, indeed where is the fun in killing newbies? If indeed there are new players, they run out of the game, knocked down and not come back. Nor do I see funny in using a wall of dragons as a defense, which few players have access, in my case I use the GGG only for upgrading the creatures, as you can see from my days of activity, do not own anything supernatural, and if some Players have more time to utilize the GGG and getting stronger, is not what this is about the game? who has the most money paid for the items, who gets more playing time train more, and if there dont have much role play, its because some people dont talk too much, and will not talk anywhere if dont like...
anyway if a player SET TREE with a 0% in def 20 + times, and not use *target dying* the style of GGG can not be broken.

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You think that's GGG style? :( Let me tell you a story that happened 2 years ago. Actually it is not a story but a fact: Willow shop was full of players with 1 crit defenses (mostly Santa) or other non-dying crit. Or random (the lazy ones like Glaistig for example). So what you say there has happened quite some time ago. Until some things got changed. All you'll manage to do is inventing hot water. But to be honest, it doesn't bother me at all. As long as I don't see the current GGG "system".

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Lifeline pointed out pretty much all the objections i'd have risen, so let me look at the topic from a different point of view:

the problem we're talking about is not, as a few might think, it's most prominent symptome (if you insist to call it that) the ggg, but, as i see it, it's just the natural evolution of MD's society. an abridged history of MD society from my humble point of view; likely quite verbose, cento-esque and biased:

like most of the old folks i started in MD's age of survival; the old days, the grim days, the all-or-nothing days when blood was spilled galore. and i liked it! it often wasn't 'convenient' play, but the general thrill made up for it. when willows changed from a murder-rit testsite and slaughterfest to an all-you-can-cut lumberjack contest (reason being the "trick" dst mentioned eariler) and MR training became semi-public, not to forget the dojo being slowly being established, the MD society as a whole, at the very latest, moved on to the age of cooperation. most played coop before, but now it developed to [b]the[/b] general practice. this was when HC was deceided by which team you had behind you, when even the strongest had a tough stand against a decently organized group. but even that age is past. now we're in one of the last ages any society might enter, an age of post-scarcity: where wins are freely available for everyone, VE/exp is measured by several 100k, where vet fighters have to homegrow their own competition because the natural circulation/ resupply is so low (the fightclub is a nice example here :( ).
the problem is that if there is nothing left to achieve or worth achieving, the way leads back into idleness or the insignificance of infantile disputes when there is no greater cause to put your energies into.


now, my point is that the current situation is not a monocausal problem (evil ggg). it's really nobodies fault, it's just the way things go, basicly had to go. since this is not 'the culture' and we don't have other, more primitive societies nearby to meddle with at will, we have to look at [b]our intern[/b] options to get things going again:

creative destruction, like no one suggested (well, it had to go further than just removing ggg to be really effective and giving lasting changes, but it's the general direction) is generally a viable option, basicly opting to start a new cycle from the beginning.
i doubt if that's really possible with the 'new' combat system as is though.

stepping back to a former age without divine intervention (new/changed mechanics) or a purge-by-fire approach might not be possible, if even wanted, so let's see what to do to make the best of what we have now:

quests and tournaments that try to bring back some of the old feel [i]in a controlled environment[/i] seem to be the best shot i see here. when the difference in power can be measured by exponents and overkills (yeah, the multipliers again), a more natural, primal state might only be achieved by artifical means.


[size="3"][b]conclusion / TL;DR :[/b][/size]
if nobody is around to hunt down or otherwise interact with because everyone is sitting at ggg, the easiest solution might be just to give a nice motivation for people to roam around again. if it's all that boring and pointless to grind at the globe, it shouldn't be too hard to supply an interesting alternative :P

also, to pre-empt the most likely objection:
"why should i have to be the one to motivate them? can't they find more interesting things to do themselves?" - no, that's the main issue in post-scarcity societies: everyone is spoiled and content with their highly convenient ways ;P

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[quote name='dst' date='04 June 2010 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1275663903' post='60990']
GGG is a community started project. It's not Mur's job to interfere. He already did enough for it, don't you think
[/quote]


WELL then if the community wants it then why do a select few want it gone????????

well then lets stop all this nonsense and put it to a vote.

let the people voice their opinion and let it be done.

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Reply to DST post:

I do appreciate the efforts of those that created the things that we enjoy in MD.

I appreciate Burns's form of protest, and his attempts to create somethign different. I actually egged him on yesterday.

My remarks were carefully directed towards those (No One in particular) that would tear down the game, without offering an alternative. The GGG damage has been done, and I commented on how hard it is to wander around trying to find targets now - as things are today. His actions will drive away players, not bring back "the good old days".

My remarks were carefully directed towards COMBAT opportunities.

My remarks were carefully directed towards pipstickz's implication that knowledge can overcome the huge advantages of age and credits ("Learn to fight") as if the natural pecking order was my fault, and his position in it was due to his scholastic nature.

Just wanted to set the record straght. Thank you.

Claws forward!

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Ok. So we do a poll. Who will vote? The mp3s? mp4s?
Ok. So we do a poll. You win and GGG stays. How will you protect it?
Ok. So we do a poll. I win and GGG is closed. Can you guarantee there will not start a new GGG?

You really don't get it. If I or No one wanted to destroy the GGG we would have not started the thread. You simply can't stop us from doing it if we would want to. But if we were to do it then you'll scream and yell that we are being unreasonable.


Yes, it is a community project. That's why it's even harder to maintain it. We, as a community should be dealing with the problem. But no! You run to Mur and ask for his support. Typical!

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i hear the same thing over and over agian.

5 people crying a fit over the other 30 people who enjoy training. It is not only a place to train, but also a place to enjoy company. All I hear is "noone does anything anymore". Well there is almost always polite conversation going on at the GGG. Or at least until a violator comes in attacking people and complaining about the situation.

Clarification of a few things

Burns is only guilty of not setting defensive rituals.
No One is attacking all the young MP5s and breaking their defenses.
Redneck is attacking everyone and breaking defenses.
Lightsage is attacking everyone and breaking defenses.

See a pattern? When the MR's jumped ship on the GGG me and Chewett picked up the pieces in order to keep it going. We see the good that it does for the realm. What will happen when the GGG is gone? Same thing when I was a young MP5.

Everyone hiding in sanctuaries idle. No they don't hide in sanctuaries and rp, they hide and idle. So that in no way improves RP issues.

People run attacking MP's in the order of age. Ancient attack old who attack new. Mass losses come up just like back in the day and people new people hide due to stat loss or quit. Back in the day, when these whiners are talking about, there was no stat losses. There were people with over 2k losses over wins. Now that there are stat losses new MPs get mass losses, start losing what few stats they have, then leave.

If someone can come up with a decent solution I am open to options. Otherwise it seems to me another case of the crybabies

*edit* funny how this starts when I am off IRL very busy. My 20th wedding anniversary is the end of the month, I am currently doing 3 roofing jobs this month, and have been extremly busy for the past 3 weeks and will be until July.

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Bah! You really don't get it, don't you?

The thread was made so we could discuss things. Not to whine, not to cry , not to nothing (yeah..bad grammar :P).
Tell me phantasm, what will you do if all the players mentioned in your post+me come to GGG and attack everyone? You send us to GoC, right?
What happens when we return? You do the same. What happens when you run out of casts on your object? For this I have no answer. And I bet you have none also.


You want a solution? I already gave you one. Break GGG. Split it.



Funny stuff:me Indyra AND Ailith are the only women that posted here :P
LE:*sits in the corner of shame for forgetting about Ailith*

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@DST

i personally cant promise anything. Im just trying to find a solution that may satisfy ALL of us, you ggg "brakers" and us ggg "abusers"

"Running to Mur" yeah maybe you could view it that way. Looking for a "higher power" to sort through all this crapp is how i view it.

Like i stated earlier, my 2 year old does this say exact thing: kicks and screams, cries, does everything in his power to may everyone else around him uncomfortable until we cave in and give him his way. :P

"Typical"

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[quote name='MRHoly One' date='04 June 2010 - 08:49 PM' timestamp='1275673797' post='61004']
Like i stated earlier, my 2 year old does this say exact thing: kicks and screams, cries, does everything in his power to may everyone else around him uncomfortable until we cave in and give him his way. :P

[/quote]

And I bet that in 90% of cases you do cave in.:P

Anyway question is: what do you prefer? Screaming and yelling or the silent "breaking" stuff? Cause I can do both. And trust me:if I do the silent breaking...nobody will know it was me. And I am not bragging.

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Yeah I do usually cave. I'm a big softy when I comes to my kids.

Brutely honest here. I don't reall don't care what the outcome of ggg is. I just can't stand the outright and blatant disregard for other players that is going on ATM.

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[quote name='MRHoly One' date='04 June 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1275675018' post='61008']
I just can't stand the outright and blatant disregard for other players that is going on ATM.
[/quote]

What blatant disregard? Just because I do not agree with something does that make me disrespectful?
You really lost me here...

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[quote name='dst' date='04 June 2010 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1275673482' post='61003']
Bah! You really don't get it, don't you?

The thread was made so we could discuss things. Not to whine, not to cry , not to nothing (yeah..bad grammar :P).
Tell me phantasm, what will you do if all the players mentioned in your post+me come to GGG and attack everyone? You send us to GoC, right?
What happens when we return? You do the same. What happens when you run out of casts on your object? For this I have no answer. And I bet you have none also.


You want a solution? I already gave you one. Break GGG. Split it.



Funny stuff:me and Indyra are the only women that posted here :P
[/quote]


You don't get it. I am asking those who wish to see the GGG torn down, what they expect to happen? Things will magically fix, Rp will fall from the heavens, and all combat will become a thing dreams are made of?

The way I see it is it is no different then those who tear down others for "crappy RP'. Destroy everything someone doesn't like and everything will be destroyed. There is always something that someone doesn't like, therefore if we all were to get our way the whole place would come crumbling down in a huge pile of anarchy. Or is that what you seek to accomplish?

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[quote name='dst' date='04 June 2010 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1275675322' post='61009']
What blatant disregard? Just because I do not agree with something does that make me disrespectful?
You really lost me here...
[/quote]


Yes. Disrepectful. As you so stated. The community established the ggg. For the most part the community as a whole abides by the rules. Save for a select few. No need to finger point huh? So the few that are coming in to take advantage of the communities tree rits to gain wins on the name of "protest" are being disrepectful in my eyes.

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You have ways of punishing them. Why don't you use them?

And what you say it's true (you don't care about GGG) why are you arguing? (and the reason you gave me is not valid...enough).

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[quote name='dst' date='04 June 2010 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1275677410' post='61017']
You have ways of punishing them. Why don't you use them?

And what you say it's true (you don't care about GGG) why are you arguing? (and the reason you gave me is not valid...enough).
[/quote]



Oh ur making this easy for me.

I don't attack because I'm respecting the rules and other players.

I want it open because I like the training.

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Several changes to the honor system have been proposed, also to the tokens and everything else.
But they don't gather momentum because 80% of the population don't give a crap about it.
Why?

Tokens play no role in GGG.
Being balanced is the worst thing you can do in GGG.
Crit-boost? What's that?
Token... Crit-Boost... Combinations...??

When Willow's stopped, people got into stat-loss because they were already way off before stat-loss existed.
I'm fairly certain that a lot of people will get into statloss very fast when GGG stops, because about a quarter of its users have been at GoE and literally asked to get 300-400 more losses, for the purpose of not having such problems with their honor in GGG.

But really losing 1000 times takes a lot, a whole lot of time. Before people get into that range, from balance, there will be a solution to that kind of things.

Options to GGG?
Were there any options offered to the people who were at Willows? Which was closed due to the pressure of a few?

But of course i'm a nice guy, so i'll offer a few:
Actually cooperate with people, not robotically auto-attack, and pick fights with people on your level, or lower than yourself
Ask for help of those who are stronger than yourself
Don't idle in the open (something GGG-users shouldn't find hard)
Only very few people are always using unbeatable rits, avoid them
Hit-and-Run, as evil as it seems
[spoiler] It's also very very simple to kill all your creatures, that saves you from attacks. A few people do nothing else. All it costs you are your creatures with natural regen, and then you can at any time revive a few creatures and start a new hitting series.[/spoiler]

That's a lot of things to do, in case it gets closed completely. Which i find rather unlikely anyway.
I'm fairly satisfied once only MP5 are allowed in GGG.

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[quote name='MRHoly One' date='04 June 2010 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1275677863' post='61018']

I don't attack because I'm respecting the rules and other players.

I want it open because I like the training.
[/quote]

So...let me understand:you don't care about GGG but you care about people. How is that? Cause GGG IS people. Without people it would be the same as <Insert scene name here so you'll not say I am not a democratic person :P>

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So what does GGG do to these oor MP3 and MP4? they gain stats to win the HC or to beat one in five of their fights? What then?

GGG helps RP? How? oh wait "Set", "Not Set", "Burst Up", "Burst Down"

Like i told you Phantasm i have nothing against GGG i go there once in a while because i can get the 400 Wins my Angien Needs to UG, or my SW, and i can get those in two days vs 2 months.

And the reason i could careless is because when those MP3, MP4, and MP5's get out into the "real world" they might have INSANE stats but i can beat a single tree def, which is all that they learn in GGG.

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[quote name='dst' date='04 June 2010 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1275673482' post='61003']
Funny stuff:me and Indyra are the only women that posted here :P
[/quote]

Check out my post from this morning. I can assure you I am most definitely all woman :P

[quote]Were there any options offered to the people who were at Willows? Which was closed due to the pressure of a few?[/quote]

[quote]That's a lot of things to do, in case it gets closed completely. Which i find rather unlikely anyway.
I'm fairly satisfied once only MP5 are allowed in GGG.
[/quote]

Incredibly good points, and I'd agree with that last point, Burns. I still also hope that any changes can be dealt with amicably. A pipe dream I know.. but one can only dream...

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Short as I cannot reply to you all (the same thing 50 times):
1. Reasons for doing this:
- to make ppl understand their place, noobs should be compared with noobs, powerful with powefull
- to make ppl realize that 3 weeks to get to mp5 is not a good thing: YOU LEARN NOTHING
- ppl start to think that ggg is MD
- abuses of ggg protective team
and after that :
- lack of ppl to attack & defend against
- ppl lack the knowledge to defend & attack
- ppl complain when attacked as this is a capital offense in MD
- ppl complain that ppl become too strong - but strongest come from their own ggg team

2. Alternatives (of, too many):
- split in smaller groups
- change character of ggg
- move to common location and learn to survive
- learn to defend
- ask politely for easy wins
This is not a "one fits all" choice, you can even select more / all


3. Why would be good for MD
- ppl should know to really fight and set really nice def rituals, no matter their at / def rituals.
- ppl should be able to walk in MD and find ppl to be able to talk to them
- and most of all because the defenders of this perverted ggg became too annoying and abusive (MRD started all this yesteday)


4. What are my closest targets:
a. gain the permission for all to attack freely at ggg
b. remove any powers given to enforce ggg
c. enjoy some good battles
d. gather some friends to have even more fun
e. who knows, maybe someone will ask to help him with some nice defs (didn't happen in more then 1 year)

5. How can it be done (what I plan to do) :
- destroy as many defs as possible
- stay there and to attack whenever I want with whatever I want
- if someone uses their spells on me, i will ask help from others to come and join me as you only have limited nb of uses
- bring back to life some DEAD creatures like knator & loreroot archer


hmm, i will continue later on this

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How about we all just deal with the GGG. It's clearly part of MD now. We have to suck it up and live with all the stuff with it.
If you hate the GGG and have any kind of problem with the GGG send me a pm. I'll convince you why to use the GGG.

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GGG, Dojo/SG, GoS,..they all just a location,the essence is what they doing in there, You all may close even guarding that places in each access and everyway u may thinking of,but the demand will always around,You all can't prevent players to train with any style they want because thats not againts any rules in the realm...

GGG just for MP5? thats the most shallow suggestion and if i may say.. A joke! Mp5 already got they're advantage with the Exp reducing feature,they can train FOREVER in any ways and style they want! Dont say anything about money and token, thats really amateur statement, u all vets are the most bright player in the realm, why u all should be panic and cry like a baby coz other player grind they stats and fully tokening their creats? Let them gather all the power so in the future they can kick ur arse..Fair enough i think..

The MD is grow to a better and easiest way everyday, u start from the bottom and through a long hard way..thats ur problem, if u start as a new player now (maybe some already did that), u'll know how easy to get a strong status in this realm right now..Far far different from ur golden era.

I'm (Poppi Chulloz) dont get anything from GGG coz i never train there, so i dont care if u all close the place or whatever, but i'm not thinking about you, i'm thinking about they who need that place..

This game is FUN! Every inch of this is FUN! You all the people that bring a funless to the ralm! Blaming, Crying, Excuses..Endless topic.

So the last thing from me, You Can not..One more time..CAN NOT preventing any player to train with every style and everywhere they want, why? Because its Legal.




[color="#FF0000"][b]Ps: I'm (Poppi Chulloz) My self will guide the MP3 and MP4 but NO MP5! to get their win count training, and as i said before, you all over ruled veterans can't ruin the trainees unless you all get over reacting and using ur alts for bullying them (again), so please act as a mateur and experienced player. [/b][/color]

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