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Day of fear - Quest analysis


Nimrodel
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Seig's Day(s) if Fear  

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Please vote people. Many people seem to be dissastisfied with the quest procedings, I'd like to adress the council regarding the votes.

The quest feedback form isnt public. This one is. Hence the voting.

Edited by Nimrodel
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I did not join the quest because I did not had the time for participating and honestly I did not understood what it was all about.

But I have my complications with understanding most of the quests made by players so this might be my own personal issue I have with quests in MD since the beginning. So it says nothing about this quest in particular.

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"Do you expect some sort of intervention for higher powers regarding the various issues faced in the quest?"

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]The only reason I said no was that even though it was poor, boring and not at all as good as expected, it was [b]our[/b] choice to join.[/color][/font][/font]

Edited by DARK DEMON
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I wanted to join the quest, but my current character situation prevents me to, and also knowing that Seigheart will be hosting the quest was enough for me to not participate.

We will all have our chances winning the same prize from a better and proper quests in the future, or with prizes worth more than the spell. The quest itself had absolutely nothing to do with fear, it was irresponsible, disorganized and chaotic. I also fail to see the point of asking the players about their strengths and weaknesses, to me it just added that "omg it sounds so cool" effect, and the last turn-off would be the nonsense voting of who should live / die that relies on how popular / likeable the person is, there are no character tests or whatsoever. This is by far the worst quest I have ever seen, no offense.

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[color=#808080][i]I did not join because didn't have enough time to treat it seriously even tho the sponsored spell doc made me double check my schedules.[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]Tho seeing/hearing how it was conducted makes me doubt the creators did treat it seriously in the first place.[/i][/color]..

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I was most disappointed from the fact, that the actual winners were known to Seig right after the 3rd (or 2nd? I failed to see the logics) part of the quest. After that everybody was pretty much on their own...

And I didn't even managed to come to the 2nd part :D I admit this is partly my fault, but waiting for 72 hours at one place and just making a list, which was ready for 1 minute, isn't my vision for a quest.

Last, but not least, I was meant not to participate in the first place, but I couldn't knew that Seig was looking for us to find a deep fear inside us, which I don't remember I have ever felt. (I am sorry to repeat myself, but I had to state this again)

The sole fact that Seig searches for solution for his own fears, but waits for us to give him the ideas how to overcome them, is just a pity...

Edited by Fire Starter
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[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1364213747' post='134443']
Love the COMPLETELY biased poll.
[/quote]

I would agree that the poll is biased and would suggest you create one that is neutral and therefore may produce helpful responses for you and others. The only elements of this poll that are useful are actually the comments.

[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1364216129' post='134447']
biased? Lol. Why do you think it is biased? Even the people who didnt join the quest say anything bout it being biased. I know why you found it biased. Becoz majority of the votes are against you.
[/quote]

It is biased. There is no argument about that fact. The poll is entirely prejudiced against Sieg and should be rewritten if you want any actual credibility. Either that or you believe the poll is neutral, and then you need to learn a little more about leading questions.

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fine chew. Set up a neutral poll. The options in this poll were what people told me directly, bout what they thought bout the quest. Since you think it is biased, and i don't know how to set up a poll, please set one in the exact same format.. I want those exact questions answered.. Please teach me.

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[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1364216883' post='134449']
fine chew. Set up a neutral poll. The options in this poll were what people told me directly, bout what they thought bout the quest. Since you think it is biased, and i don't know how to set up a poll, please set one in the exact same format.. I want those exact questions answered.. Please teach me.
[/quote]

From your reaction, i get the impression that you feel that it is entirely neutral and fair. If so then there is little point in me trying to convince you, since i am wrong.

If you are truely interested in learning i suggest you look up a likert scale, what leading questions are and more general information gathering techniques. But i do not have time to worry about attempting to make a poll nice and fair, but i will merely state that this one isnt. My opinion is just that, my own view. It doesnt mean anything to anyone else.

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I also agree that it's biased. I didn't join the quest because I was told to expect the worst and I trusted Seigheart to keep his word on that part. Mind you, depending on how things go, maybe I should have joined--but that's another story.

The closest option (that's not 'other') to this reason (ie. 'Didn't join because of the potential consequences') is 'I didnt want to be trolled participating in seig's quests like before' and that is definitely biased. It would be better to put 'feared the consequences of joining' and leave it up to people to say why they feared the consequences.

Clarification: I chose 'other' since 'didn't want to be trolled' wasn't accurate.

Edited by Change
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How many times do i have to tell you chew, that unlike you, i am very rarely sarcastic? If you have time to say that the poll is biased, i'd suggest you explain what part of it is biased. Like what change said. That's how i learn. Forgive me, i'm too stupid to learn just by reading.

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[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1364196394' post='134404']
The quest feedback form isnt public. This one is. Hence the voting.
[/quote]
Then why not just copy the current quest voting form, Likert scale and all? That would solve the following issues in one fell swoop, but would be much vaguer. Besides, I can’t think of a good way to convert the reasons for joining/not joining questions onto a straight five-point metric.

Perhaps this poll is unsalvageable or doomed by its very nature, but I’ll take a shot. Chew and others please poke holes in this where constructive.

1) Why did you join the quest?
> “Because Mur sponsored the spell doc” has undertones of “I thought Mur would protect me”. Something like “The potential reward outweighed the potential consequences” is perhaps almost overly biased in the opposite direction, so maybe “For the reward” would be preferable.
> “Because I thought since someone big was sponsoring, the quest might not be a troll quest like the ones before”
Equally unbiased would be “In my greed for the spelldoc I didn’t look before I leapt”.
Redundant though this option is, it’s a specific opinion that several people seem to hold. Possibly: “The sponsorship allayed my concerns.” Those who chose this option could detail their concerns below.

2) Why did you not join the quest?
> “I didnt want to be trolled participating in seig's quests like before” could be split in two (these are checkboxes and not radio buttons so this should provide more information): Change’s “I feared the consequences of joining” and a Seig-specific “I was wary of the organizer”.
> Add “I didn’t have time”.

3) How was your quest experience?
> Copy the Quest Voting page for this one.
Troll is an offensive word, and name-calling does your own image no kindness.

4) What all did you find good in the quest? (tick the ones you think were done well)
> “None - Did nothing at all about this quest impress you? (please check this option if you think the quest didnt deserve any kudos at all)” to “None - I disliked every aspect of the quest.”
I think this rephrasing more accurately reflects the harshness of the respondent’s stating that they disliked the event from start to finish.
> If you’re really interested in fairness then I suggest having people rate organization, adherence to theme, quality of challenges, aptitude of reward, judging, and enjoyment EACH on three- or five-point scales. You may wish to combine some of these positives to keep down the length.

5) Do you expect some sort of intervention for higher powers regarding the various issues faced in the quest?
> What you consider “various issues” others might view as simply part of the quest. “Did you expect higher powers to intervene in the running of this quest?” should suffice.
> Those that didn’t join the quest probably also have an opinion about this. How about:
- Yes, and I joined
- No, and I joined
- Yes, and I didn’t join
- No, and I didn’t join


Even with these modifications, the whole idea of this poll being public feels somewhat ‘off’ or cruel, and the criticisms leveled so far seem less than focused on constructiveness. We won’t “all have our chances winning the same prize from better, proper quests in the future” if people are scared off creating them or participating based on the negative feedback that this quest received.
— —
Q4, “Other”: I liked
- that this quest got people talking and thinking in a way that I haven’t seen happen publicly in recent times—in a very “MD” way.
- the twist of killing those people voted to save.
- seeing a new location.
- the question posed in Stage 2.
- the challenge of reviving myself and attempting to help resurrect others.
- that Stage Four was kept a secret. I consider this also to be a clever twist.

I disliked waiting, although waiting is for better or for worse very present in this realm.


I’m very curious to see others’ entries and for some insight into the scoring mechanism involved.

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Thank you very much for your input Zyrxae. But I've decided to take a break. It's weighing too much on me.

I don't know how to sugar coat my words or write cleverly. I am handicapped that way. Everything I write has to be straight forward and direct. People seem to be taking that for rudeness and spite. Hence I think I am incapable of creating polls. I did this hoping that even if higher powers wouldn't intervene, at least other people would be prepared for what will hit them next time. Call me a hypocrite. Call me biased. Whatever. But this is an honest confession.

If someone wants to take it up from here please do. I'd be happy to see someone create a successful poll and bring to light why this quest was wrong at so many levels.

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[quote name='Zyrxae' timestamp='1364238905' post='134457']
3) How was your quest experience?
> Copy the Quest Voting page for this one.
Troll is an offensive word, and name-calling does your own image no kindness.
[/quote]

That i actually find quite nice, as it's based on one of the more popular fictions of today. Reminds me of good days :))
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Ordinary_Wizarding_Level#O.W.L._scores

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[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1364240285' post='134460']
That i actually find quite nice, as it's based on one of the more popular fictions of today. Reminds me of good days :))
[url="http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Ordinary_Wizarding_Level#O.W.L._scores"]http://harrypotter.w...l#O.W.L._scores[/url]
[/quote]

[i][color=#808080]I find it even nicer based on even better (in my humble opinion) series of books.[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]Mumintrolls (trolls named Moomins)[/color][/i]
:D

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a9/Moomin_kuva.JPG/300px-Moomin_kuva.JPG[/img]

Edited by Shemhazaj
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I didn't sign up because I have an up and down past with Seig and I didn't want to bother with the stress that participating in one of his quests always brings, and not even competitive stress like in heads, just pointless argument stress. Then my laptop stopped working altogether, so good choice me.

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[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1364216334' post='134448']
I would agree that the poll is biased and would suggest you create one that is neutral and therefore may produce helpful responses for you and others. The only elements of this poll that are useful are actually the comments.



It is biased. There is no argument about that fact. The poll is entirely prejudiced against Sieg and should be rewritten if you want any actual credibility. Either that or you believe the poll is neutral, and then you need to learn a little more about leading questions.
[/quote]

Can't agree more. Totally biased.

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I joined the quest because it sounded interesting, because of the spell doc, and because the CoE is focusing on dark emotions at this time, and at the heart of such emotions is fear.

I think Seig over-committed to this quest, judging by how long we had to wait between his appearances. I have a great deal of personal freedom and sometimes can stay logged into MD for 24+ hours non-stop. Waiting for somebody to show up and provide direction for about 30 minutes at a more or less random time, and to do so for several days, taxes the patience. I was starting to get numb when the second challenge was issued, and by the time the third challenge came around I was too apathetic even to contribute a kind word to my fallen comrades.

I don't think the second challenge was worded very well, because my response to it took the challenge at face value: roleplay a situation like this. I was well aware that my cursory treatment of the objects involved would not be satisfactory in terms of the strength of an essay, but I felt I wasn't really being asked for an essay - not clearly, anyway, and I wasn't too inclined to indulge elaborate hypotheses about something that is as wholly subjective as fear. I could have given Seigheart the benefit of the doubt and expounded upon the theories I exchanged with JadenDew, AmberRune, lashtal, Syrian, and Nava, but I chose to take the instructions literally. There is an element of grumpiness in that decision, I freely admit. What? I'm in a box? Hmm. Let's examine more carefully and then get out. Not going to do anything being stuck in a box. And this is where the disconnect hits me with respect to roleplaying and how some people in this game choose to view it: I didn't do what I would do. I didn't do what a scholar researching fear would do. I did what Tarq would do, and Tarq is arrogant and impatient (more so than I am, I think). But it's at best a simplification to say Tarq contributed little or nothing to the quest, since with lashtal's help I spearheaded the translation of the dog-Latin and prompted the rewording by JadenDew that Seigheart said was so dead-on. Seigh might not have noticed that I was around for the better part of the quest, but I was, constantly, mostly listening, but offering interjections when it seemed useful or appropriate.

The third challenge really turned me off. Revive the dead people? Really? That felt like being invited to a party and then being told you needed to stay and help clean the house afterward. It is clear to me that both the second and third challenges demanded a great deal from the participants but represented very little preparation on the part of the quest "host". That seems lazy to me.

In all, I think the concept of the week of fear was and is a good one, but I don't think it was well presented. If the quest cannot "run itself" based on clues, clickies, and what-have-you, the host should be prepared to be accessible and prompt in responding to participants' requests. I would like to see a bit more imagination used for the challenges: fear is a rich subject, and I don't think this quest went any further than ankle-deep into the water in terms of exploring it. If you want people to roleplay around the concept of fear, [i]you must give them a storyline[/i]. No story, no (or bad) roleplay.

I feel I've been nothing but harsh in this analysis, and that is not my intent. I was very encouraged to see sparks of interest among players, participants and non-participants alike, and I think it says a great deal that the DoF questers were able to stay together and keep discussion alive as long as they did. Seigh deserves credit for giving that impulse a chance to be acted on, and I would try to characterize my remarks in the spirit of "lessons learned".

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There is my feedback, if its usefull ....

I [b]did not participate[/b] because

1: Those of you who pass, will be rewarded a special Spell Document, Black Water (from Mur).
[Big reward, but usually in MD those quest mean "torturing" participant]

2:Those of you who fail... May Mur have Mercy on your Soul!

(There are real repercussions to failing, so be prepared to complete the examination. I will not reveal the repercussions until they are handed out.)
[[b]reading that warning did confirm my idea of point 1[/b]]

3:I am please to have chosen to not participate, [b]for me any quest with that >MD killing fun is not fun ....[/b]

4: [b]I am happy for any who participate and may have had fun with that quest ...[/b] its just that that quest was not for me.

5: [b]I am thanking Seigheart[/b], to have provide an [b]fair warning[/b] and description of his quest

Edited by Tom Pouce
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Here some more feedback, provoked on Tom's:

I've joined [b]despite[/b] the so called "[i]repercussions[/i]" - I knew there would be death involved, and I didn't had fear about that.
I had no fear about [b]how [/b]Mur would choose to have mercy on me - exactly that part had me intrigued and I wanted to find out.

I didn't joined about the spell docs, but for the big reward, that comes exactly from the so called "torturing", which in my opinion, never happened. I felt no fear, I wasn't amused by anything Seig did.

It's real, that I had some fun with Mur but he can't be here 25/7 to entertain us, and either do we for him in return. And Seig didn't helped at all, making us waiting him what started to seem indefinitely.

Bottom line - this Week of Fear is another great idea, which I'd gladly see developed further.
Sadly I have to express my doubts, that Seig will be up to the job

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