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Vote for the new head of Treasure Keepers

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[size=5]I think I'll vote for Lightsage.

We've tried TK members in the past. And maybe we should try something different.
I'm not saying Zentao isn't capable enough to handle things. But if knowing all the stuff in TK hasn't made it different for the previous leaders, maybe it needs something more?[/size]

[size=1](I must ask though. is it a plot to get some Trib loyalty? you already got yourself some MDA lighty)[/size]

Edited by Nimrodel
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I vote for Lightsage. I know him for 4 years. I trust him. He is one of the few that knows the rules very good and will never ever use excuses like "I didn't know". Zen might be a good girl but she

Honestly, I expect little change either way it goes, as there is little reason to change an operational system. Whether Zentao or Lightsage (as we seem to have developed a two-party system, sorry othe

ZenTao. I say this mainly because the people I trust most, who have been around longer than me and think more clearly, say so. Their reasons make a lot of sense to me, especially the fact that ZenT

Honestly, I expect little change either way it goes, as there is little reason to change an operational system. Whether Zentao or Lightsage (as we seem to have developed a two-party system, sorry other candidates) wins, the TKs will still sponsor quests and do everything they're supposed to. Zentao didn't put herself forward until she was poked and prodded, perhaps this could foreshadow similar indecision in the future, but it's a problem to work through if she does win. Lightsage looks like change and that's great and all, but change isn't what the TKs need, it's stability with a calm head who actually listens. Technical knowledge, market knowledge, personally knowing people, these all sound good on paper, but have little to do with TKs in practice. A month old player could run the TKs with a little guidance and would probably do a better job of it than anybody has in the past.

So, to sum it up, I actually had to think about it for about an hour while editing and re-writing this post, and I actually managed to convince myself to change my vote. [u]I vote Zentao[/u] because the reasons for voting Lightsage don't make sense to me unless I ignore my brain, while the possibility of a leader who won't say "I'm not changing my mind unless Mur/Council tells me to", and one who already knows how TKs works, is too good to pass up.

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I vote for Zen Tao.

I have no doubt both Lightsage and Zen Tao would be able to do a good job as head of the TKs. Zen Tao because her experience as a TK and because she has shown to be responsible and several more reasons, Lightsage because he has been in MD for a long time, is eager to help as an LHO, etc. They both have their advantages, read the previous posts if you want to know the details.

In the end I think both would probably do an equally good job. What Zen lacks in experience of MD she makes up with experience as a TK and vice versa.

Still there are several reasons I think Zen Tao as head for the TKs would be better for MD than Lightsage, slightly unrelated to their ability to do the job. The first and most important one being that Zen Tao already is a member of the TKs, has been involved for a long time without any complains I know of and deserves recognition for that. If she doesn't get the recognition she deserves that can be seen as demotivating not just for Zen, but also for others thinking of helping out.

The second reason might seem a bit less obvious, but I'll try to explain it as good as possible. Lightsage is a veteran. Being a veteran gives several advantages up to the point that to someone new it might seem like there is no way for someone who didn't start at least four years ago it's impossible to work himself up to a rank of importance. That's one of the reasons TK applicants should have less than 365 days to be able to apply. Having the TK leader as a non-veteran (As Zen is far from new) will be a motivation for other players.

P.s. If Lightsage runs for president he would get myy vote, everything better than what we have now :P

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I know Lightsage is capable, no matter my negative opinion on his general behavior and system of values, but [b]I will vote for ZenTao.[/b]

My reason? ZenTao is nice as far as I know her, bunch of people mentioned interesting things, but my main reason is that I am voting against Lightsage.
Why against Lightsage? From my experience with him and his acts, he is not trustworthy, not loyal (other than to himself), and he is too ambitious. All that could pass on its own, but there's another huge reason - monopoly of power. Who are his best friends? One of them is Dst.
So if you choose Lightsage, you have a person that controls how the major rewards are distributed, and you have a person that has ran most of the log-checks on who cheated the system as one of his best friends. (not that I want to question Dst's professionalism, but I would still prefer not to put her into that conflict of interests. I don't think Dst will try to manipulate this, as I don't think she wants much in game stuff, but I am afraid she will not do her best to stop Lightsage)

Even that could pass for me (barely) if Mur were active and all the TKs had to do was to watch carefully whom he is rewarding, but in the modern days of MD, we've seen that TKs have a large independent part, full of self-initiated ideas.

For administrative functions to succeed you need to have neutral people who don't have 'best' friends, and a load of people who are monitoring those on administrative functions which by all means shouldn't be good friends with those they are observing. Yes, that is pretty hard under these conditions where you only have some 100 active people.

For the sake of balance of MD powers, pick someone other than Lightsage, otherwise, whenever you would like something to get done you would have to go to a certain faction of players. Players should have very limited and balanced grasp on admin seats.

Remember what Mur said about people not liking Seigheart? That it is a positive attribute for his TK reign, because he is not supposed to be liked.

I'm sorry for sounding offensive towards mentioned people, this was not meant as a flame, I just wanted to honestly portray my opinion on a subject I weigh important for MD.

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[color=#0000cd]I've split several posts to [/color][url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13294-discuss-the-voting-arguments-here"][color=#0000cd]a new thread[/color][/url][color=#0000cd].[/color]
[color=#0000cd]Each of you gets to vote once, so put your arguments into exactly one post. Use links, quotes, whatever you like, and edit as often as you need to, but any posts except the one you voted in will end up in that thread.[/color]

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ZenTao has my vote. She has been a TK for sometime now. Seeing her day after day help anyone that needs it, handles TK business with lightning speed and never asks for anything in return.

Those that have the pleasure of dealing with her for help "in game", getting rewards for TK sponsored quests, forums posts or just to shoot the breeze know that she is real, doesn't ruffle when questioned or criticized and takes her role seriously. Those that haven't had the pleasure of meeting ZenTao, when ya see her say "hi" and see what she's about.


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Zen seems great and all BUT I noticed Seig's previous candidate Fang did not work very well.So,no reason to think Fang's candidate will perform better compared to a more experienced player.Person I vote would be [b]lightsage.[/b]

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I vote ZenTao.

I think all of the candidates discussed would be capable, but ZenTao has put in the time, has proven reliable and levelheaded, and is knowledgeable about all relevant matters. I see no need for someone from outside the organization to take over (Fang's poor leadership should not reflect upon his underlings.), but I do feel that having someone newer to the realm (but old enough to be well experienced) in a position of power as a good thing. And I think ZenTao is due credit for sticking it out through the tough times.

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I will cast my vote for [i]ZenTao.[/i]

[quote name='Mercurial Spectre' timestamp='1354143198' post='126782']
1 more vote for LightSage .Zenny will have her chance if LIghtsage wont do what he have to do

[quote name='No one' timestamp='1354091575' post='126699']
PS: LS, if you fail this, we can nominate you for president of a small country

Hmmm, I'd much rather be looking for a more permanent leader. Things are less messy that way, and these statements make you seem like you lack confidence in your choice.

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1354086543' post='126698']
Zen might be a good girl but she's clueless. Maybe in time she'll learn but until then we need someone who doesn't need a babysitter or constant monitoring.

ZenTao is most certainly not clueless. When I was in the TK, she was dedicated, efficient, and knowledgeable about what was going on. I noticed she created her forum account toward the end of 2008, since many of you [SPOILER][quote name='No one' timestamp='1354091575' post='126699']8. old school (age over 4 years ??? damn I am old)[/quote][/SPOILER] many of you seem interested in age. That seems like enough time to have some clue (however small) about the going-ons in the realm. I feel that we're so interested in how old someone is (and perhaps even a small portion of the reason some of us want Lightsage to lead) because it reminds us of the good 'ol days. We must remember that a new generation (very slowly) approaches and will always be approaching, until the end.

Give them some room (not trying to convince you all to quit, that's not how I mean it).

What's more...I just realized I still have access to the hidden TK forum, and what I saw was that the last post by a TK leader was by Seigheart, July 2012. Perhaps that means very little but ZenTao was active. She offered help to the new recruits (showing them some of the ropes), brought up a quest idea, and politely but directly stated an opinion about one of Fang's posts. I'm not saying that Fang wasn't doing his job - only that ZenTao seems to have been quite helpful. Food for thought.

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1354037506' post='126641']
She already knows what to do, is EXTREMELY well organized. She has a calm and collective demeanor, is not looking for a status gain in MD, but to help MD become better.

[quote name='lashtal' timestamp='1354051254' post='126663']
I already dealt with her and she showed transparence and efficiency (delivered rewards quickly and preserved anonymity as requested).

[quote name='Eon' timestamp='1354118824' post='126741']
When she contacted me in the past over rewards I never had anything to complain about. She delivered things fast and seemed happy to do her job as a TK member. I think she can handle it

Yes - it always impressed me how organized she is...always keeping up with logs and keeping us in line, too ;) Aye, she was rather speedy in delivering things, and she almost always had the larger load to deliver.

[quote name='No one' timestamp='1354091575' post='126699']
11. knows the game mechanics (see the game mechanics badge)

Some of the most important:
13. he knows people due to its new and old activities and even age and character
14. People know him


As I stated before, ZenTao joined around 2008 (as far as I know). So if you're so concentrated on age...there you are. Perhaps I'm wrong and she hasn't been that active, but again, she seems to know her way around rather well. And all of these people (18 so far, I believe) voting for her seem to know her. Lightsage has contributed to the realm, no doubt. I have nothing against him (in fact, I appreciate the conversations and trades I've had with him), I just feel ZenTao would be better placed in this position.

So there you have it. That's my opinion.


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I was not going to vote because I viewed both candidates as equally qualified. However, many people have made the good point that ZenTao is a very experienced and dedicated member of the Treasure Keepers already. Therefore, although lightsage might easily do an equally great job, I vote for ZenTao.

Also, although it hasn't influenced my vote at all, I would like to point something out. I find most, if not all, of the arguments against ZenTao silly. Go look up 'logical fallacies' and you'll see why. For instance, some examples:

Hitler loves strawberry icecream therefore strawberry icecream is inferior to chocolate icecream.
The Holy Potato Book is true because it was written in 250BP (Before potatoes)

I don't hold any of the arguments against ZenTao against lightsage, I find both of them equally good candidates, but I think that ZenTao deserves such a position after being so dedicated to the Treasure Keepers. She deserves a chance to run the Treasure Keepers in her own way, a thing that she can't do when she's not the head.

Edited by Change
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I intentionally waited a little, so I could see what people's reasons were.

[quote name='Hedge Munos' timestamp='1354154859' post='126791']...What's more...I just realized I still have access to the hidden TK forum...[/quote] Directed at whoever does indeed become the new TK leader - you might want to check who has access to your hidden forum, and clean a little. I'm fairly certain those with access are trustworthy enough, and it's up to you of course, but it's something to bear in mind.
[quote name='Ivorak' timestamp='1354153869' post='126790']...ZenTao ... has proven ...[to be] levelheaded...[/quote]Do I really need to go through the discussion thread and pick out pretty much every post she's made and point out how none of them look level-headed? I agree entirely that we need someone that will remain calm and collected under the pressure of the position, but I would state that whilst she may have proven herself to be levelheaded with the position she currently has (I don't tend to interact with TKs, so don't know), she clearly does not remain so with the added wider public interactions.
[quote name='Ivorak' timestamp='1354153869' post='126790']I do feel that having someone newer to the realm (but old enough to be well experienced) in a position of power as a good thing. And I think ZenTao is due credit for sticking it out through the tough times.[/quote]So both "sides" are focussed on the age thing? Merits to both new and older players, but apparently Zen is an older player anyway, so age discussions are moot.
[quote name='Change' timestamp='1354161022' post='126792']...Go look up 'logical fallacies' and you'll see why. For instance, some examples:

Hitler loves strawberry icecream therefore strawberry icecream is inferior to chocolate icecream.
The Holy Potato Book is true because it was written in 250BP (Before potatoes)[/quote]Lightsage is friends with dst, dst is evil, therefore Lightsage shouldn't be voted for - you mean like that one?

Aaaaanyway, as for I wanted to say for myself;
It would seem that it has indeed become a 2 party race, which is a bit of a shame, but when you get some of the candidates voting against themselves early on (CotS, Miq), it begs the question why they went for the position at all. So then we are left with ZenTao and Lightsage (since Hedge has also now voted against himself).

Since a lot of people are focussed on age, well, they're both old accounts (2008, you say for Zen, Hedge? huh.) so neither gets any 'bonus' points on that one. For the record though given two people I would view as equally capable for the role, I'd pick the 100ad player over the 1000ad one.

Whilst I wouldn't let it interfere with my decision on who to vote for, it is rather....[the word eludes me]...that Seig and Fang (more Fang than Seig) seem pretty much of the opinion that the world will collapse in on itself if Zen doesn't win.

New blood makes the institute sound like vampires, just putting that out there. 'New blood' is good, as are 'old hands', both have been argued, both arguments are perfectly valid, and equal in measure for me. 'New blood' puts fresh energy into an enterprise and another view that might not have been looked at in that way before, but they have to learn how to do it as it's new for them. An 'old hand' can get running with the job as soon as it's theirs, there's no need for a break in period and they can just kick on and continue, but the system (however it is now) will likely remain the same, and some people seem to have issues with how it is now (and certain things previous leaders did).

I find it mildly amusing that both sides state that the person they're voting for is organised, active, responsive etc, amusing not because it's not true (I'm fairly certain it is), but just because it implies that the other party is not like that. It'd be like saying "Lightsage is not the son of the devil", you therefore imagine that Zen probably is. Or "Zen handles TK business with lightning speed and never asks for anything in return" implies that Lightsage would either be slow or ask for some form of payment. Might be a bit late to get people to "fix" their previous posts, and at the end of the day, it's their right to convey such - even if it is unintentional, but future voters might want to bear that in mind. Maybe actually put points that are a reason to vote one over the other, rather than stating necessary qualities for the job which they both share.

All in all, aside from a single thing, I find them equally viable for the position. The thing it comes down to, or back to, is public interaction en masse - from what I've seen, Zen seems rather lacking in this aspect, whereas Lightsage, I wouldn't say excels, but he's certainly better, and it's certainly something the leader of TKs has to be good at.

I vote for Lightsage.

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I vote for Zen as well.

Lightsage definitely has more experience with MD itself. Zen however has stuck with the TKs through a lot of rough times so far and still managed to produce a respectable character in the alliance. I believe it is best to let one who has already put alot of time in the TK's in before letting someone outside of it take over.

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I vote Lightsage.

With the [b]hope[/b] that whoever is choosed will prevent what i consider current common faults of the TK:
[indent=1]1. Inconsistent rewards sponsorship[/indent]
[indent=1]2. Lack of TK Evaluation/Participation on Quests[/indent]
[indent=1]3. Lack of TK Creation/Assistance of Quests[/indent]
[indent=1]4. Lack of Transparency on Treasury Management[/indent]


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