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  1. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Akasha in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Trial eneded.

    [quote][left][color="#8b0000"][b][size="3"]Final Decision or Punishment [/size][/b][/color][/left]
    [b]Good factors (one):[/b]
    Admited before judgement: Yes
    Fixed situation in time: -
    Special Factor: Considers he did it on purpose to set an example

    [b]Bad factors (one):[/b]
    Refuse to cooperate: -
    Recidivist in same crime: -
    Additional crime: yes (used for confirmation CTC not of his own)
    Special Factor: First case to reach a trial regarding item fraud, punishment higher.


    [b]- 500 attack
    [/b][b]- 500 defence
    - Confiscated oldest creature, premium, ID:63369 [/b][b]
    - Trade embargo for one month untill 27 march 10. Any player trading with him will get punished, him too.
    - 1 week prison, untill 6 March 10.[/b]

    [b]Confiscated goods (drach and item)[/b]. Drach will be given back by CTC if requested by owner, to suffer age penalty cost for giving out the ctc of a personal creature to someone else. Item will be restored to JacoAnd.[/quote]
    Trial closed.[/color]
  2. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to CrazyMike in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Like Jaco said, noone can really be neutral and Mur is the closest that one can get.

    Since we are all MD players, we all have no choice but to believe that he will instill justice as he sees fit.

    I know there are some who feels that he doesnt have all players welfare at heart, or that he is biased by his own personal relationships, but we have to remind ourselves that we still have a personal choice, and that is the choice to stop playing if you feel injustice has been done upon you.

    Whether it is Mur, Kings or Queens who are meting out justice, there will always be a voice in the realm who is not of the same opinion and feels that biasness came into play.

    No sentence can make everyone happy, there will always be sympathisers for the criminals, justifications for an evil act, a bond that blinds one to the act of cruelness.

    Justice is different for different perceptions of different individuals.
  3. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Malaikat Maut in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Since (or if) Granos perpetrated the crime in the name of roleplay, I would like to see the issue resolved by players or governing bodies in game (rather than by Mur). If Granos is not compliant with the rules of roleplay, then it should be deemed a scam and therefore punishable beyond the scope of game mechanics. It seems to me, through my reading of this thread, that Granos has consciously sparked debate and is willing to accept its consequences, perhaps in response to the recent threads claiming that MD is boring or lacking in mystery and intrigue. The thrill of resolving this issue as a community of players should far outweigh the loss of pass Papers or reputation, VP, XP, or whatever else Granos has at stake. Since the realm has kings, perhaps the kings should have dungeons?

    I've been unable to log in for quite some time now, so it is possible that players are rallying on their respective sides of the issue in order to roleplay this interesting turn of events, but if this thread is the only place its being discussed, shame on all of you, and Jaco more so than the rest.
  4. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to JacoAnd in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    [quote name='Granos' date='26 February 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1267140471' post='55246']
    Given that it took place in Marind Bell such a King would be Lifeline as he is neutral party in such a matter and it happened within his lands and he has no stakes in such items as would someone from GG would. But this is merely my opinion, but I like the idea non the less.

    I dont think any player can actually ever be completely neutral, the only one who in my eyes could be neutral is Mur, he has nothing to get (He has everything if he wants to), the only thing he gets out of things like his is apperently amusement.

    [quote name='Pipstickz' date='26 February 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1267144123' post='55250']
    Mur has personal relationships too, you know >>

    Yeah but not in the same way as a player, he would be very hard to (I dont remember the word on english) to just hand over a drach under the table to.
    He might not be completely neutral but he is the closest.
    Not saying that others wouldnt be, but there has to appear doubt at some point if people disagree with the decision, and then the trust in the way the court should work disapears.
    But again thats my opinion, you are free to have one yourself.
  5. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Granos in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    [quote name='Firsanthalas' date='25 February 2010 - 06:16 PM' timestamp='1267139801' post='55245']
    As regards Kings MB, I see a few issues.
    Firstly not everyone is a citizen of a land and not every land has a king. Therefore, if you happen to have no king, your kind of stuck.
    Secondly, and I don't want to make this sound like a cop out, but the role of king probably shouldn't go beyond the game itself. And many crimes do. There is also the issue of different morale standards and attitude. I could be much more lenient or indeed malevolent than another king.
    There is also the possible situation of two parties from two different lands with moanarchs at odds. Who would hold jurisdiction then? Could the party that is not a citizen of the judge get a fair outcome?

    That being said a dispute between two citizens of one land, could be judged by the relevent king and that could be intersting indeed.

    Given that it took place in Marind Bell such a King would be Lifeline as he is neutral party in such a matter and it happened within his lands and he has no stakes in such items as would someone from GG would. But this is merely my opinion, but I like the idea non the less.
  6. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to whitewater in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    [quote name='JacoAnd' date='25 February 2010 - 02:42 PM' timestamp='1267108975' post='55205']
    Okey... Then I will await your decision.
    In the meantime, wanna do a trade Jaco??
    (I am kidding of course.....)

    [color="#0000FF"]I would ask you to refrain from this in future, it's quite an useless post. In a serious topic.[/color]
  7. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Metal Bunny in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    I find this extremely interesting, primarily because I adhere to a more condensed version of sinning.
    The only true sin I recognize is the sin of getting caught.
    In a realm where indeed, there is no dispute over the existence of an omnipotent and active god, committing to one's crimes, is in my view, either an expression of grand stupidity, or of a grand self destructive sense of malicious flair, usually accompanied with an even greater ego.

    Of course, one has to wonder, if surely this omnipotent god exists and surely acts, whether or not his acts are unbalancing, and more specifically, if balance is to be upheld or not.
    In other realms with powerfull gods, you also have evil one's. Or realms with gods where the gods do not act.
    Stability is often prefered over an equal balance of what is seen as good and evil. But what if stability is not the primary concern?

    Basically; will you convict this criminal and halt evil's advance, perhaps even, forever, were it not for the more playful roleplay version of it?
    Indeed, will you condemn the heinous crimes of the villain, but thereby inadvertedly also condemn any sort of malicious act in the future? Indeed, condemning the future of villains in all the realm, to become naught but footstools at the pink bar of childhood pranks.
    Or, will you let the villain go unpunished and risk the stability of the entire realm, and thereby perhaps deter new souls from even daring to fulfill their grandest potential.

    Naturally, this is only 1 case, and let it be obvious that the latter option would be more severe than the first one.
    However, I have one suggestion to make.

    In order to maintain balance and stability, perhaps it would be in everyone's best interest to grant the victim... temporary means of retribution.

    However, what fascinates me the most, is the possibility that the Kings and Queens have with this.
    Were the god to instill the power to punish, AND, to instigate into the non-existant courts of justices or it's possible antithesis, like thieves guilds and other nefarious organizations, then I am certain, that justice and villainy will both thrive.

    Of course, just a suggestion.
  8. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Yrthilian in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    OK after reading through all the posts i may as well have my say.

    First (not that i am agreeing with what was done) no rules were broken.
    Mur did say you trade at your own risk. it is up to you to trust the one you
    trade with.

    Now in saying that i don't agree with what has been done and have to admit i may
    have also stepped into the scam myself. As a player Granos is a fine player. He plays his
    character very well and is one of the few proper RP players in the realm.

    I think this trade in its self just got a little greedy and if you were just after a Drac
    why not just ask for that in the trade?

    No the whole matter is going to become a bigger issue.
    as one can see it come down to a feeling of theft and well we all have our opinions on that.
    This is a hard area to call on. As i said no rules were broken in this trade. yes a scam was done
    but we were all warned this could happen and so now Granos is the first i know of the do this.

    To be honest i would have expected the pirates to do this first but hey

    Now the main issue is this since he scam was done is it acceptable to let it continue
    as we all know once it is done the first time many more will follow as no punishment is brought forth.
    but how can there be one since no rule was broken?
    This will only make trading item harder as no person will trust each other to trade. So in essence not only
    does this cause a breakdown of a community but it also cause what little trading to stop and make life harder to
    get items and this in turn will just kill quests and will kill the trading system.

    To be honest this matter may not get resolved and we will all complain about the issue and mark it as the event
    that ruins trading within MD and kills what little trust that is in the game.

    That is my little say on the matter.
    Hope i am wrong in much of what i say but experience tells me differ
  9. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Firsanthalas in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Shadow I think that you are missing the point. If you are seeking to create some kind of loophole in an agreement, then you are seeking to scam someone. I also have to object strenuously to anyone seeking to employ such tactics as you are not dealing with people that are not all native English speakers, nor even adults. In fact taking advantage of someone that is not a native speaker or indeed a minor seems utterly reprehensible to me. I consider it the duty of all people to protect the more vulnerable, not exploit them.
    I'd like to reiterate that I am not accusing Granos of being a thief in real life, but at the moment it is looking a little like that to some people.

    On the assumption that Granos has merely decided to play the 'villain' and actually does intend to pay up in the end, or at the very least return the item in question, I suggest that he somehow make that known to people. I'd offer to even hold the item in trust for a certain amount of time to represent the 'theft' and then return it to its owner. Of course, people may not like that idea or even trust me either.
  10. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Shadowseeker in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Just a suggestion, since this hasn't been brought up:

    Perhaps show the conversation you had? Give us screens from the PMs, because from what Granos said he seems to be like: "I traded with you but you didn't notice what exactly I said."

  11. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to CrazyMike in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Agrees with Firsan.

    It is not about Jaco now, but what happens when a scam is done? This involves the whole of MD.

    Before MD, I have played in games where players steal, cheat, lie, go on attacking rampage... all part of the game, but no scams are allowed!

    Any scammers caught will be sent straight to jail.

    This could be a first in MD, and it would be interesting what kind of precedent it would set.
  12. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Firsanthalas in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree.
    Personally I don't like the way people can make large profits from items they received for nothing. In a way, I see that as mercenary and not very condusive to the game in general.
    That being said, theft is another matter entirely. Granos may play a villain, but there has to be a line between 'playing' one and 'behaving' like one. I'm sorry Granos, but I feel that you have overstepped the mark here in the name of villainy. Its hard to say what you have done is purely RP. Theft from an MD character really does impact on the player and its really theft from both.
    Also, as Jester said, there are supposed to be consequences for actions. You can't walk into a shop and steal things and then just say 'Hey, Im a villainous person, its my job'.

    While having people play villains is a good thing imo, there has to be some boundaries. Some unofficial rules if you like. And I personally feel that one has been crossed now.

    In the end, having people feel like they have been ripped off or abused in some other fashion is counterproductive and imo unnaceptable. How can you expect the game to grow if you have this kind of thing happening. It is a proven fact that people are more likely to complain than to compliment and also more likely to tell people about something bad than something good. Personally, I would not refer a friend or family member to any place, if I thought it likely that they would be scammed, stolen from or abused in any fashion. I'm sure I am not alone in this opinion.
  13. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to CrazyMike in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Granos plays a delicious villain.

    He is so good, he is even respected as a villain.

    But his character has always been done in the realm with RP, but to do this scam in a Forum, it is possible he may have crossed the line.

    Granos cannot always say that he is a villain and gets away with everything. There must be a boundary. Does his character allows for scamming? If I am to scam another player, can i say that it is coz my character has been seduced by the dark side? Or maybe I can say my character is now playing a lying thiefing scoundrel... would that be allowed?

    Can you imagine Granos knocking on yr door and saying "Give me all yr money", and you cannot report it coz he is Granos!
  14. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Fenrir Greycloth in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Yes, it does. And honestly... nothing will happen to him either. Granos is a villain. Jacoand should have known that. He is over 300 days old.
  15. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Granos in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Touching words, but it was nothing more than pure deceit, although through word play there is a loop hole but I would rather see what there is to suffer.

    Do your worst.
  16. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to cutler121 in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    [quote name='JacoAnd' date='24 February 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1267046159' post='55124']
    I dont really see why it serves me right, I have never said I wouldnt sell it to golemus, they have had the exact same chance as any other, of course I could have waited to see if golemus would offer more than a drach, but really a drach was all that I find it worth.
    So going over that would make it only possible for the ones who has the most money in the game, thats the reason I stopped it there.

    And I just say I want it back or my drach, because I believe that if a trade is agreed on it should be hold.

    And I couldnt find anything negative about Granos, so I decided to trust him after he sent me the first part of the ctc to be sure that he had the drach.

    The paper was the most valuable item I have ever had, so for it being scammed from me and then geting told it serves me right just seems plain wrong.

    If I shouldnt trade it I could also just have kept it, being an item hoarder instead.

    I am confused. In your post selling the item you said you had a bid for 7 gold. You can buy a lot more than a single drach with that!

    Not knowing what Granos and you discussed, I can't speak about the outcome of the trade (whether it is over yet or not) but one thing which might help is to look at the 2009 year awards. Granos was nominated (and I think won) the villian of the year award, but it was my impression that he usually targeted people who had done something wrong to bring them to his attention.

    So can I ask a question, did you really have a bid of 7 gold for your GG papers? (I have to admit I was somewhat dubious about that when I read it.)

  17. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Pipstickz in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    If I remember right, you got the pass papers for free, did you not? Just putting that out there.
  18. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Fenrir Greycloth in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    Truthfully? Serves you right.

    Those papers belong to the Golemus citizens. Not to anyone who can buy them.
  19. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to JacoAnd in First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos   
    I had my Golemus pass papers for sale on he forum (For those of you that dont know)
    And I got a offer from Granos saying he would give me a GG Drach with 251 age for it. (Anonymously)
    I then traded my pass papers to him, but didnt get anything back and he seems to be ignoring me now, both on the forum and in game.
    If he dont wanna give me a GG drach I would at least like my papers back.
  20. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to North in Wilderness Area (Hunting Zone)   
    More NPC's need to be added!!!!!!!!!! Couldn't agree more..Maybe the whole idea of a "zone" or "area" or you can call it whatever you like where you could randomly be attacked is not feasible or not easy to be implemented..I accept that it has flaws...But you know..When i had to defeat those guards at the shop..Or the Guardians of Loreroot..It felt good..Gave my a motivation to find the right ritual to be stronger..well it worked..Maybe Sharpwind is stating it wrong...But more NPC'c NEED to be added..Even i am starting to lose interest in the game..harsh as it may sound...

  21. Downvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Leixer in New Ideas For Usable Items   
    WOOD HANDLE - could be for a knife, a tool, or who knows what else

    an ability that will make a person cry. like a silence spell but instead of silence. the person will start to cry no matter what he says
  22. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Muratus del Mur in Hoarding Of Creation Items   
    items will still be stplitted in rare and common items. Raw materials might get more common , such as silver for example, but if so they will also have a different dynamic. Maybe they will be just temporary untill you convert them into somethign or gain something for them. The rare or unique items will remain unique, their value won't change, in fact it might grow once they get any kind of usability.

    You better don't haste to make assumptions on what it will be. I am still not sure of the things i can do with the new features. It might surprise me as well in the end.

    The only stable things you can rely on are the things i place in the announcements. Here on forum i say ideas, how things might be , etc. If you want to plan ahead and anticipate if the item value will raise or drop, its your own risk.
  23. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to dst in Hoarding Of Creation Items   
    I believe we got bored of your posts and of the hole subject, that's why you do not get any answer (and I am merging all your posts).

    Actually, I wanted to point out a new issue:it seems there are some players that grab the items put in Wasp Totem then never return them. And you IAB are one of them.
    I even seen a player that actually doesn't play (just logs in for his active days) that have 2 of the items on him. Why do you people keep the items after you use them? Let them go so others can try them! Shish!
  24. Upvote
    Sharpwind got a reaction from LadyDawn in List Of Recipes For Creating Items   
    I just think it could be useful and fun for the roleplay to have some standard items... like a fishing pole, a net, buckets, bags, cloaks, blankets, traps, hunting knifes, torches, masks, belts, gloves,...

    Perhaps it would be a good idea for the crafters to make also standard items (from raw materials) for silver coins, beside the special items for the wishpoint

    (An idea for the shop to work:
    Perhaps it could be restocked weekly with random supplies in raw materials at random time and allow each player 1 material transaction per day)
  25. Upvote
    Sharpwind reacted to Muratus del Mur in Homing Items   
    Since server is down and hosting is not responding, i will write a bit about what i did today.

    Homing items, well, its possible now. I have a few ideas that might change md a lot in the future, for example:

    - pet items, you feed them with heat or me, or with creatures, they can weaken enemies or simply be cute. They have a fixed number of uses. While in your possession the number resets every time it reaches zero, but when they give them to someone, they will return to you once they are used a given number of times.

    - homing pigeons, owls ... You could give them to someone then when used they would return to you and their description would have a text written by the one that set them free. Of course there is no practical purpose because we have pms ..but maybe for a quest or something...

    - Tool renting. There could be a place where you could rent tools for different things. You pay something for them, like one silver, or other items (supposing there will be many raw material items), or for free, and you could use that tool for a limited number of time. Once its used entirely it would reset back to its "base", reset, and be ready for an other player to use it.

    - torch competition. Heheh...this one is related to somethign bigger and you will see when time comes. Nice part is that without this feature some things that i planned long ago would not be possible, yet back then i was not expecting such a thing.

    There are obviously a lot of new items possible. I just built myself a heat-to-vitality conversion device. It lets you store heat (that drops 1 per sec) and you can activate it whenever you want and heal anybody with that same amount of Ve. It has also the homing feature and limited use, so its very likely i will be passing my new toy around for some of you to test.

    Right now server is dead, and i am at the edge of eating my keyboard out of frustration, so i cant think streight about more possible uses, but i knwo there are.

    one question is most important. Economy or not economy, should there be raw items, and a sort of industry to convert and use them, and together with that skills such as mining, crafting of all sorts and such? I am a bit afraid of making that part of the game. Economy leads to abuse, and in time will need a lot of "continuation" i will not be able to provide ... (because i will be always working on stuff i enjoy and never on stuff i should).

    So its difficult to decide. For now i will be playing with the new toys and try to find a way to keep them balanced, or more towards the unefficient side. Items still have an importance just as such, without their use, so their use can remain on the luxury side for a while.

    Now, this is outrageos, server still down...i'm so gonna kill somebody/thing/....argggg
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