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Metal Bunny

Festival of War and Remembrance 29th of June to 4th of July

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Because of your rigorous training of LHOs x)

The way I see it in this topic, any proactive LHO is a legend, which makes you Jesus of MD, Gridoez. Some think of you as a god, some think you're just a prophet, and some don't value you at all :))

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[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1309356854' post='86868']
"Besides the large role she played in legends such as Khalazdad, [b][u][color="#ff0000"]Grido[/color][/u][/b], Granos, Zeiphener, Kragel, etc "huh?
[/quote]
I believe what grido is pointing out, is what "large role" did she play with him?

[color=purple](No need for a new post) Correct - Grido[/color] Edited by Grido

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I should start by saying i read just the first post of this topic, mainly because its 5am now and it is long and based on what i saw briefly you don't need me to read it fully nor should I suggest "legendary players" otherwise if i do i should reward them myself immediately :P

My sponsorship of this event, to be distributed as the organizer thinks fit:

- 8 wp codes (can be converted in wp and given out as codes or as wishpoints, as you think fit)
- 3+1 Tainted Angiens (one goes to the organizer, 3 to be rewarded to participants)

these are [b]negociable[/b] based on what happens during this event. If i missed anything and the rewards should be greater or they are to big and should be lower, please contact me about it.

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Thanks Mur :D, I really appreciate this sponsorship.

Though, I was wondering if it was possible to create 1 item, a trophy, like last year.
Trivia Trophy, for winning the Festival of War and Remembrance trivia, year 6.
It's not necessary, but it would be awesome :D. (I can pay for it in silver, if you want it).



As for the trivia contest, same rules and organization as last year.
It starts on Monday the 4th, 19:00 server time, Gazebo of Equilibrium.
At that point the trivia preliminary rounds start, everyone can join.
1 point per correct answer, once you have 4 points, your answers will be ignored.
I'll keep asking questions until we have 16 players who have 4 points each.

Then comes the deathmatch trivia, with the 16 players facing up against each other in, with the loser being eliminated until the final four.
To win in the deathmatch trivia, a best of 5 trivia questions (3 correct answers) will be played.


[b]Rewards:[/b]

Most creatures have 0 xp, none have enough xp for maximum level, unless stated otherwise. Some creatures have tokens. All creatures have enough age (not certain about the tainted).

As part of the rewards there is a creature pool where winners can pick their reward from and it consists out of:
3 Tormented souls, 6 imperial aramor, 1 bloodpact archer, 1 joker, 1 pimped grasan, or aged angien (I have enough of them).

Places: 16 - 9 (last 8);
1 aged angien as a consolation prize.

Places: 8 - 5 (4 quarter-finalists);
1 wpcode, 1 pick from creature pool.

Place: 4 (lost semi-finals, then lost against nr. 3);
1 wpcode, 3 picks from creature pool, aged angien, or if nr. 2 or nr. 3 don’t want the tainted, then tainted.

Place: 3 (lost semi-finals, then won against nr.4);
1 wpcode and choice between WP or tainted

2 (lost final);
1 wpcode, aged angien, 2 picks from the creature pool and choice between WP or tainted

1 (won final);
1 wpcode, aged angien, 3 picks from the creature pool and choice between WP or tainted and trophy (if Mur gives one)

So far, all the prizes are sponsored by me, with the exception of the wpcodes and tainted (and trophy if Mur gives one).
If people want to sponsor, then you are welcome to do so.

Edited by Metal Bunny

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Is it possible to change the hours for the trivia game? 21:00 server time is 1 am here, and since it's on weekdays it would be impossible for those on my timezone to stay up till morning to participate :(

As for the trophy, I think I could help with providing one (unless Mur wants to do so himself).

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Yeah, I changed the time (and forgot that the legends part is actually on the day before) and the trivia deathmatch will start at [b]19:00 server time[/b], which should be good enough for everyone in most timezones.


Glor, Morrel, Innocence, Fyrd, Blackthorn, Indyra, Handy Pockets, Ivorak, Laphers, BFH, Rumi, Curiose, Malaikat Mut, Princ Rhaegar, Eon, Fenrir Greycloth, Mcvitie, Mya Celestia, Windy, Sagewoman, Tengri, are the ones being judged.

The next were rejected: Laphers, Rumi, Malaikat Mut, Fenrir Greycloth, Mcvitie.

The following I am highly doubting and require more arguments to be listed as Legendary: Morrel, Blackthorn, Ivorak, BFH, Princ Rhaegar, Eon, Curiose, Tengri

The following I have the highest difficulty of judging and at the moment of me writing it, it may as well be a coinflip (and because a coinflip is arbitrary, my auto-judgment is no), so please strengthen or weaken the cases for: Innocence, Fyrd, Mya Celestia.

The following have (tentatively) been accepted, unless serious cases are made against them: Indyra, Handy Pockets, Windy, Sagewoman. (h-uh, all women).


If you require reasoning, ask and I shall post them here.
In the meanwhile, let me give you some arguments that are applicable to most of the people as to why they haven't been accepted yet.

1: Limitation of influence; While it is true that some, if not many of the names listed above, are good friends, wonderful teachers or influential players, it is the point of some versus many that sparks contention. This spark is ignited due to the fact that some, if not many, players in MD, simply never met with, interacted with, or were influenced by some of the players.
And it is not the burden of the newbie to get to know them, it is the burden of the potential legendary player, to influence them in a meaningful way, if they truly wish to be legendary.
In a more social context, this argument against them can simply be said by saying that it is [b]//easy//[/b] to remain within a single social group, to stay in locations that are familiar and in such a way, do not require great effort or exertion in their part to be seen as 'great' or 'legendary' by people who most likely, would have been loyal to them regardless, as they are friends.
No, such isolation is not to be condoned, as my reasoning ultimately is that a legendary player of Magicduel, is not just legendary in Loreroot, Necrovion, MDA, or any other land within the realm. No, a legendary player of Magicduel [b]//has to be legendary within all of the realm//[/b], not withstanding newlings, adversaries or the lone rebel.

Speaking in analogy: You can be the almighty ruler of a molehill, but the 23rd in command of the empire of a chain of mountains is still more important. (I could make jokes, but that's just mean :P)

Don't mistake me, isolation can make for a wonderful argument for a legendary status. But, as you may have noticed, there is an inherent weakness in isolation, namely; there is a greater chance that no one will be there to see or understand the 'greatness of your isolation'.

2: Unfulfilled potential; There are players in the list who have been nominated for things they either recently started or things that were magnificent in themselves, but very short lived, or things that were great as well, but simply failed.
The thing they all have in common is simple; unfulfilled potential. Simply thinking or hoping that a player's new project will be meaningful, wonderful and influential, is [b]not enough[/b]. It must have been done long enough to actually warrant such praises.
Players that have done acts that were indeed legendary, such as the postman, Tengri, the sentinel, but ultimately so shortlived, that even in the [b]mid-term[/b], their influence is easily forgotten, by all but the players who were directly involved, were scrapped off the list.
As for players that tried something, but failed, I cannot do anything but resolutely deny them. [b]Failure[/b] is not and shall not ever be a pre-condition or argument for being 'Legendary', unless your goal was to fail all around and 'fail your way up'.

Speaking in analogy: A single act of courage and skill may make you a hero or worthy adversary, but it is not the battle you must win, it is the war.



Also, Udgard, in case Mur doesn't sponsor a trophy, how much would such an item cost?

Edited by Metal Bunny

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I have no interest in ever being added to this list of players, so I'd like to be removed immediately. Edited by Eon

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It is a status that is assigned by me, meaning that whether you want to be on it or not, is not up to you. The only thing you can do is to make a case against yourself.
Also, as I told you before, you don't need to worry about it for now, because you're in the 'highly doubtful' category.

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Are we being judged on our previous actions in MD, or is this during the festival itself?

If the latter, then, I won't be able to attend anything, most likely. : c Stupid life is getting in the way.

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Argue here and yes, there are discrepancies, but that's only because of the 2 'general' arguments and because no one is really making a big case for or against people here.

But go ahead, convince me :D

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[quote]The following I have the highest difficulty of judging and at the moment of me writing it, it may as well be a coinflip (and because a coinflip is arbitrary, my auto-judgment is no), so please strengthen or weaken the cases for: Innocence, Fyrd, Mya Celestia.

The following have (tentatively) been accepted, unless serious cases are made against them: Indyra, Handy Pockets, Windy, Sagewoman. (h-uh, all women).[/quote]

I look at the people you have nominated, With the first glance being at Windy and Sagewoman, They have both done a lot in their area, And have been "around" for many events, But if you are basing their involvement on comments such as Phantasm made, Are people a legend because they were around and "helped" some matters? He even quoted saying that she helped the role of Grido, Which grido seems to be rather bemused at, What part of his role did she help him with? Both of these people i would say would not necessarily fulfil your "legendary within all of the realm". With for example windy, she is currently attempting to get the pub into the game, Yet hasnt yet suceeded, unless her legacy is something else, it would not fulfil your second point. Does the mere fact that they have been around so long, experienced so many things, make them legendary?

Then Indyra, She has managed to attain an alliance which handles CTC codes, That is a great and worthy feat no matter if she was recommended, appointed or just happaned to be the right person around, But does that qualify as legendary? Is that nessacrily "within all the realm"? It certainly does effect the realm, but i dont even know if she has such powers to be able to do what the guild is meant to? I havent really seen any advertising or posts, and if so i have totally forgotten about it. Does this not thusly fail in Point 2, as to me there was commotion about it at first, yet it has in my view petered out a bit? But does the fact the first guild to be able to do such things, Being ran by Indyra clarify as Legendary no matter what it has done?

In contrast, you can suggesting Mya should not be, I would have said she has put a lot of work into Loreroot, with having attained a high position in it (if i am correct). In my mind, this is similar to what Indyra has done for GG minus the attaining the alliance, Which i have already pointed out probably doesn't fulfil your point 2. When does the effects of one person working hard in one land, start to effect the greater realm? Once again, Becuase a legend is so intrestingly defined, i dont know precisely what you are looking for.

Again, on a totally different view of a legend, Fyrd has made an impact more generally over MD with the numerous clicky quests. He has had many participants and out of the people named has probably effected the "most" amount of people in all the different lands due to the nature of his quests. But would you consider this one facet of him legendary? His helping out newer people with MDscript has certainly helped a group of people, But would these efforts to help and get others to enjoy his quests make him Legendary?

Innocence is another who has spent her own little time in her own field. From what i have seen she has set up a "Player Adventure Log" which has had participation from a wide group of people, Always in character she Dwells the archives. But she does keep herself to herself. So Does this mean it is not qualified for effecting a wide range of people? Or does the fact that she wrote, participated in her PAL, make her a legend?

Handy helped with Awiiya, telling stories and such, participated in the AL, and has now become Queen. I guess the whole Awiiya thing would fall under the fact that it doesnt nesscarily effect the entire realm. The AL she participated in, is no mean feat. And thusly that would probably definately qualify her for a bonus, to her "application" But If that does, Then surely Innocence would haveing Written parts of the AL? Surely that is a more important job, to be guiding how it goes. And as for "Being a Monarch is legendary enough" She has become monarch recently, and so far hasnt made any big changes, What you do, and what you leave for the next monarch, So as such i dont think you can really make a comment eitherway based on your Point 2.

[b]Now, once iv commented on all of this, Please read this, twice if possible, so you don't all come to maul me. I have in no way stated everything you have done, I am not trying to overstate or understand various points, If i have indeed understated your involvement in X or Y, Then i am sorry and that is only because i did not know about it. Please feel free to correct me on any and all points i have made. I am not trying to be rude to you guys, each and everyone named above is a good friend. I am sorry if i have offended you in what i have said, there is non offence intended. I would love to talk to any of you, if you feel i am unjustly unfair, and i will correct this post as you wish.[/b]

The main point im trying to make, is classifying a legend is VERY hard, And each will have their own view. In my opinion ALL of the guys stated above are legends, In their own ways, for doing their own specific things. I am trying to point out that, By the two points you posted MB, that perhaps some "similar" people have been added, or left out that shouldnt have necessarily been done so.

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Mmmh, you are right in those cases, so I'll try my best to explain a bit.
For one, achieving Monarchy is not enough, I realize that, however, the difference is that Handy Pockets was elected. An election requires far more effort, than simply being born into a dynasty. Feel free to dispute this.

As for Indyra, Windy and Sagewoman, I have seen that, besides what they have done, is that they helped newbies. While one may argue that W&S didn't do much, they were also influential in the way Loreroot's government behaved, as well as being old in comparison to the others up there. Now, I don't count age as a real argument, however, their age, unlike Vilinec, has been put, consistently to good use, through the help of newbies (throughout all of their days, which is a lot.)

Now, Indyra is almost constantly in the paper cabin, so I have added that to her alliance achievements. Besides that, I also took into account that her guild is the first of its kind, which, while not necessarily as special as the 'first alliance', it still counts for something. Lastly, if Indyra had not been selected as the leader of the guild, she would have been chosen for a higher postion in the GG alliance, which would force us to change the name of the 'triumvirate'.. what's it called when it's 4? Regardless, unlike some other governments or guilds, she is clearly visible and does influence the realm.


As I said in my previous post, I was in pure doubt about Innocence, Mya and Fyrd.
The way you put it, I have begun re-doubting the already shaky positions of Mya and Fyrd. I believe I had underestimated Mya's position, because her position in the government of Loreroot, as well as when helping newbies, should put her in the same position as Indyra.
I do believe I have a bit of bias towards Loreroot, though I have no real reason as to why.
So, yay, I think I'll put Mya on the legends list. (I did say it was a coinflip before.)

The same goes for Fyrd, he also has been helping newbies, I just haven't seen it a lot of times, giving me a bias to correct for.
So yay too?

As for Innocence, (I'm not certain if you read what I wrote correctly, because the way you end makes it sound as if I had put Innocence in the legendary category), I must argue against your reasoning, because while she (he?) may have done valuable things, her (his?) isolation impedes him severely in the sense that all his other achievements are lessened as a result as well.
In this sense, the only bias I do have is against his isolation, but I believe that this bias is justified and as such he is still in the toss-up=not legendary (yet) category.

In contrast, all others do freely and willingly mingle and influence the realm on a nigh daily basis, as far as I know, Innocence has consistently done the opposite to his detriment.
Again, isolation can be a good thing, you just have to do it properly, and so far I have not seen a really good example of how isolation can lead to a legend. (with perhaps the exception of Z, but one can argue that the PoL is a busy crossroad and as such, isn't really isolation.)

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To me, you seem to weight "helping noobs" rather a lot, in comparision to other such fields. Which surely makes Inno even more of a well rounded applicant, She has helped a lot of noobs in her own little way, Introducing some of the finer aspects of "always" playing your role. Surely Writing the adventure log, And then later her Player Adventure Log did affect a lot of people, So i dont really see your point about isolation.

As iv said, In my opinion all of them deserve a position on the list so hence why i was talking about them. But i still feel that how you are judging them is flawed, based on a limited amount of points.

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Of course the way I judge them is flawed, as it is an entirely subjective judgment, which is why I ask people to argue with me.
However, simply saying that it is flawed doesn't really help a lot, now when you say that she does help newbies a lot, then I would normally argue against that, as I have seen him be quite offstandish and isolationist and I concluded that such behaviour impedes realm-influencing acts.
But it does seem that (not just you), others say that she has been helping people out.

And, yes, it may seem that I put up a higher emphasis on helping out newbs, however, it is not actually the case.
I argue that simply because we were having a discussion about it, that it seemed to you that it were the case, if I truly did put a higher emphasis on it, then surely, I would've put that in with the 2 previous, more general arguments.
Besides that, I believe that helping out newbs is integral to the 'influencing the realm' part and that while the latter may not include the earlier, the opposite is certainly true.

Lastly, the cases we were talking about, were right on the 'I'm doubting so much, it may as well be a coinflip' middle, as such, helping newbies becomes marginally more important.

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Ding Ding! Round 2 Chewie Vs MB, May the bout commence! :))

[quote]The following I am highly doubting and require more arguments to be listed as Legendary: Morrel, Blackthorn, Ivorak, BFH, Princ Rhaegar, Eon, Curiose, Tengri[/quote]

Eon - I would have said, That Eon should qualify for this, being one of the strongest fighters in the game, Winning the BHC and attaining the position to run the BHC as he choses fit. He is akin to Eden, And has achieved offical power which Eden did not, I would think he deserves said place if Eden is on the list (which he is)

Curiose - She is an intresting one, Ran story night sporadically for a period of time, and now became the head of the Treasure keepers after helping Mur with a variety of things, after selling her help on the forum. I would be more inclined to say no for her, Since she is "relatively" newer and definately would come under point 2, New Project, Unsure of outcome. But i would say she is someone to consider if there is more i have forgotten.

BFH - Again he is on the same "line" as Curi, if a little more progressed, He has spent a lot of time helping newbs as a pretty pernament MP6, everyone knows him. Additionally he has spent a lot of time working with advertising, re getting the advertising guild up and running after it was disbanded. But then it was closed down again due to lack of viable applicants. Plays an important part in MD in regards to his role, Since advertising is very important. For him i am again unsure, So i can see why you put him in "highly doubting with more arguments" But i would say he is a key player. Simiarly to Curi, If not now, and he continues to play, definately next year.

Morrel, Blackthorn, Ivorak - They popped in and out of the game, They have all done things for MD in some way or another, But overall not much springs to mind in regards to what exactly their "legacy" is. Personally i would consider a legend in which you could point to some facet of the game and go "That guy did really well with helping with X, or doing Y"

Tengri - I think the phrase "fun while it lasted" comes into mind. He might have had a fun role while he was around, But in the end no one is really shouting his praises, Nor had i thought about him since the last announcement regarding him.

Princ Rhaegar - Did a lot of work with Loreroot, specifically the savalites. Then got Exiled over some trivial issue, and moved to MB. His Newbie starter quest is pretty decent to learn how to play and such, And is currently in the Marind Bell Council. Other than stating what he has done, i wont give my opinion on him :D

As for the people who were rejected initially, I agree with all, Except possibly Fenrir. Although my many and varied fights with him, He did make MD a little more intresting. Not nesscarily a "definate" legend, But i would disagree with immediately ruling him out.

[b]Disclaimer:

Please read this, twice if possible, so you don't all come to maul me. I have in no way stated everything you have done, I am not trying to overstate or understand various points, If i have indeed understated your involvement in X or Y, Then i am sorry and that is only because i did not know about it. Please feel free to correct me on any and all points i have made. I am not trying to be rude to you guys. I am sorry if i have offended you in what i have said, there is non offence intended. I would love to talk to any of you, if you feel i am unjustly unfair, and i will correct this post as you wish.

The Opinions posted are merely from MY point of view, They will most likely be not "politically" correct, and are not from my position as SoE leader or Forum Admin. Merely from MY view as a player[/b]

------------------------

In regards to an item being made, Surely it would just be one Wishpoint to make such an item, So such a wishpoint could be used from the stock Mur made?

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If I may, I would like to make my own argument about myself.

I do not think myself a legend. I do not think that even though I am someone who has a means of being a head of something, or doing various things around MD, known or not, that does not necessarily qualify me for legend...

As Chewy said, I am relatively new. While it would be an amazing thing to be claimed a legend, I do not personally feel I have committed myself enough YET to fully say: Here here, I agree! To my nomination. I want to experience MD a bit more before joining the fishes in the land of legendary, if that makes sense?

Simply having a medal for newbie of the year is satisfying enough for me for another year or two. Give the title to someone who actually deserves it.

Edit: As for selling my help, I did that for the people who I felt worked hard under helping achieve Story Night. But that's a different barrel of monkeys Edited by Curiose

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Were the Previously nominations based on a similar set of previous guidelines? Because as someone has pointed out, Someone such as Granos would not fulfil said points you have posted.

He has been around a lot, caused a bit of mischief, But all in all, it was invisible. Most of his fun, plans and results were hidden from public view. No one ever saw very much public motion from the alliance he headed for a while, And based on this, He didnt have a "massive" impact on the greater realm. If you judge it from the above reasons, He would not fit in.

Yet, in my opinion he is an legend. Anyone who met him, Saw him roleplay, or generally do anything, he had a certain interesting way of how he worked. My main question for this point, is should we be comparing previous "legends" with ones suggested, to try and point out that X and Y are similar, And can Legends be "removed" since Eon has indicated he would want him to be.

Note: This was posted after a friend pointed out some things to me.

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tomorrow I'll be available from 20 hours server time, onwards, to... let's say 01 hours.

I can also try to catch 18-19 hours, it won't be that hard, but I can't promise. Edited by Rhaegar Targaryen

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Don't worry Chewett, I am still planning on replying to you, but I haven't had a lot of time yet (exams :( )
Anyway, I kindly ask everyone who got into the deathmatch trivia, to place their desired rewards here, so that I may organize and deliver it to you better, once the Treasure Keepers send me the codes, etc.

Remember, higher rank, first pick.

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