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Seigheart

Using "gay" as an Insult

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As many of you have noticed, a certain individual had used the word "gay" as a form of insult on the Moodpanel. In reaction to this, others have blown up and responded to this form of "insult."

This post is in response to both parties, for they are both EQUALLY WRONG.

Being "gay" is not an insult. For either party to take think this, is just disgusting. Those who have endured years of torment for their sexual preference should be admired, not pitied, or made fun of. They chose to be outwardly DIFFERENT. They could have hidden their desires and done things the "normal" way, but they hadn't. They chose the hard life, and that life means they are happier.

For those of you who call people "gay," think about yourself for a moment. Have you ever done something so courageous as defying one of Society's most important rules? Not likely.

For those of you who pity those who are "gay", where do you get off pitying them? Protecting them? This is just as big an insult to these people. They do NOT need protecting, nor to be coddled.

Once again, being "gay" is not a BAD thing.

Seig

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I don't see what the big issue is.

Honestly, I am all for homosexual rights, I even defended them and risked my own neck for my senior project by stating they should have legal rights to marry. But that's not the point.

What the point is, it was a personal issue between them. If they want to hang by the jury of their peers, then maybe you should let them, instead of making a post about how wrong it is by using the term as an insult. I don't think it is going to do anything OTHER than start a drama fest about the whole thing. So really, why poke the bear?

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We can prologue this debate so much that we would jump so far out of subject that not even Mur might be able to take us out of it :)

But I just have to say one thing about your comment Vicarious:

Being gay does NOT mean defying one of Society's most important rules !!!! It's not the society rules that is defied. It's nature's "rule" that is defied. And I'm 99% sure many people will take what I've said in the wrong way. But don't get me wrong. I also think society has brought upon us some rules that reached even the line of ridiculous. Monogamy and many other things which I don't have time to explain ( indy might remember more about another conversation with me about this subject ).

And yeah, They do choose to go on a different path, and yeah, it's their choice and it should NOT be condemned nor ridiculed. But it's not a natural choice.

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I agree, Master B.

I mean... I had a debate with someone about this, and I know it is totally going to derail this conversation, but WHY do people become homosexual? Supposedly, scientists believe it is genetic. And, this isn't the entire debate, but rather, a snippet because the rest would become too 'graphic' for young ears even if it is just biological terms. Edited by Curiose

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I have not seen the post in question, but the person who did it should try to use insults that don't have the possibility of starting flame wars.


IMHO, "gay", "faggot", etc. are still used as insults by the general population simply because it has been done so in the past, and old habits die hard. Don't take it personally.
Since being gay is socially acceptable now due to society maturing (or due to desensitization), the "insult" no longer has any bite, and thus is no longer really associated with being gay.
I mean by this, you won't commonly see a comment like "Thats gaaaaay" on something that is actually associated with homosexuality. Any such comments would have the intention of trolling, not the intention of insulting.

I expect usage of "gay" as an insult to die out within a few generations, similarly as "nigger" has done.


However, Seig, being gay is no more something to be proud of and admired for than being straight is. No emotion at all should be attached to either word; either preference is equal to the other.
My opinion is not driven by emotion; I myself am straight.

Having been tormented (for any reason) is a reason for pity. Surviving torment and coming out stronger is a reason for admiration. This has nothing at all to do with homosexuality.


Edit: My supposition is that being gay or straight is a difference in chemical balance, similar to the difference of being in love or not being in love, or being addicted or not addicted. Except that it's permanent and unchanging. Edited by apophys

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A long time ago gay meant happy. Now it means homosexual male.

I'm personally used to the word gay because a major road in my town is called "Gay Street". Gay street has lots of good places. If streets have emotions this street would be a happy street because it has Starbucks, local businesses that are awesome, etc. I like to eat dinner on gay street.

UrbanDictionary Definiton
1. jovial or happy, good-spirited

2. a homosexual male or female

3. often used to describe something stupid or unfortunate. originating from homophobia. quite preferable among many teenage males in order to buff up their "masculinity" Edited by aaront222

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[color="#2e8b57"][i]Why did Vicarious get neg repped ?

Anyway people are people, and are free to love and care for pretty much whomever they feel like. One has a choice of being homosexual, just as much as one has a choice about the race that they born into. Granted there are those that may choose to follow that lifestyle but thats a different story altogether. Substitute the word "gay" for "white" in said statement and then see how ridiculous this argument is!!
I cant believe that we are actually discussing this - I really thought we are more open minded....[/i][/color]

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Quite right Sharhazad. Seigheart - Keep poking the bear. The rest of the comments on this thread are exactly the reason why the bear needs to be poked. Hard. Accusing you of starting a flame war/drama fest/ whatever other trivial commentry someone decides to put upon it, for standing up for human rights. Amazing.

Z

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what I was meaning by drama fest was him calling out the people involved who would then attack him for his post and things would just go down from there.

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As with any minority that was once oppressed, there's two sides to this debate.
One: using words like 'gay' in an attempt to insult people is either a sign of homophobia or of careless use of words. Both are bad things, however I'm personally more against the former than the latter.
Two: interpreting every use of the word 'gay' as a sign of homophobia, is a typical case of protected minorities being completely paranoid. If you have to, at every opportunity, reiterate the entire history and fight for gay rights, then you are assuming your fight will never ever be over. That's quite pessimistic and if you are homosexual, then it is equally unethical to believe all straight people are shortsighted, as it is for a straight person to think homosexuals are sinners.

There's a fine line between an oppressed minority and an oppressing minority; a line that might be further away depending on where you live and who you talk to. Here in Belgium, I personally never noticed any oppressing. Gay people are equally likely to be pointed at as teenagers who are: fat, freckled, pimpled, smart, wearing glasses, having a bad hair day... mainly because you don't recognize them unless they're being super-stereotypical gays dressed in all pink wearing a leather handbag or if they forgot to get a room. Not saying people should hide their sexuality, but wearing a big 'I am supergay' shirt is just slightly less stupid as wearing a big shirt that says 'I have twice the chance at carrying a venerable disease' and going to a rally that protests gay people not being allowed to donate blood, because of a historically increased prevalence... All that last thing proves to me is that they have gone from an oppressed minority to a lobby group that failed to notice they met their goal and should disband until the problem pops up again (which we hope will never happen). And should I be wrong about the Belgium anti-discrimination rights, at the very least I think their lobby group should get their priorities straight.
Also in Belgium, I don't think I've ever heard any homosexuals complain about the abuse of the word gay, even though it is used in jest and diminutive form from time to time here too. Maybe we are lucky Belgians, both heterosexuals and the homosexuals.

[quote name='Master' timestamp='1297107428' post='78583']
But don't get me wrong. I also think society has brought upon us some rules that reached even the line of ridiculous. Monogamy and many other things which I don't have time to explain ( indy might remember more about another conversation with me about this subject ).
[/quote]
Nitpicking: humans are not the only species that are (partially) monogamous. From a darwinistic perspective it is not ridiculous, although cheating is also "logical" to similar extent. From the same darwinistic viewpoint, gay people are "illogical". Considering that there is almost seven billion people and the earths resources are limited, it might make sense to encourage gayness though; It is my personal philosophy to encourage men to be gay, so that I have less competition when hitting on women. Lesbians on the other hand are evil incarnated.

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[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1297109844' post='78588']
IMHO, "gay", "faggot", etc. are still used as insults by the general population simply because it has been done so in the past, and old habits die hard. Don't take it personally.
Since being gay is socially acceptable now due to society maturing (or due to desensitization), the "insult" no longer has any bite, and thus is no longer really associated with being gay.
I mean by this, you won't commonly see a comment like "Thats gaaaaay" on something that is actually associated with homosexuality. Any such comments would have the intention of trolling, not the intention of insulting.

I expect usage of "gay" as an insult to die out within a few generations, similarly as "the n word" has done.

Edit: My supposition is that being gay or straight is a difference in chemical balance, similar to the difference of being in love or not being in love, or being addicted or not addicted. Except that it's permanent and unchanging.
[/quote]

im not so sure these words are as acceptable as you seem to think, its ALL about context, and in relation to MD it is quite easy to see if such words are said in jest, and if there is a misunderstanding.. i guess someone can ask not to be called something which angered them..

i guess my supposition is similar to yours in a way.. not really about chemical balances though but all about addiction in a way, its simple, people just do what makes them happy or feel good at the time :)
(whether its eating a huge cake when you menna be on a diet.. or putting double the amount on lottery tickets because you feel lucky.. the thing which makes you stop and think twice when walking past the kebab shop :P)

if it makes you feel good and its between two, or more lol, consensual adults then i dont see what the problem could be or why it actually needs to be "understood" as if its a condition!

Edited by Asterdai

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[quote name='Asterdai' timestamp='1297116402' post='78603']
i dont see [...] why it actually needs to be "understood" as if its a condition!
[/quote]

Everything on Earth and beyond needs to be poked, investigated, and tested in every detail, for such is human curiosity. :)

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I will expound, as I apparently am the first to react in "hysteria". nadrolski posted something close to this in the mood panel:

[quote]Forced to move to MP5 just to avoid my reprisals? Gay-ish move.[/quote]
I wish I'd taken a few seconds to screen-capture it, but nad responded to my response before I thought to do so. I had responded in anger, sufficient anger to make me break character as Tarq, something many of you know I almost never do.

I will not sit by and be silent when hate-speech is used, and it's quite clear from the context that nad meant it in a pejorative sense. I will not apologize for my reaction, which included telling nad to get stuffed. I am aware of at least six people in MD who identify themselves as gay, and one is a very close friend of mine. I don't need him to be offended, for I am offended. It's not cool to use "gay" in a pejorative way. It is something I consider absolutely unacceptable. When I taught English to teenagers, I allowed them to use almost every curse word imaginable in my classroom. I did [u]not[/u] permit the use of "gay", "bitch", or the infamous n-word in a pejorative sense, which tended to mean I did not permit their use at all; the way my students used them was almost always pejorative.

Seigheart, you're posing as a civil-rights advocate by conveniently ignoring what I said, which was "it is NOT acceptable to use 'gay' as an insult." It isn't. I stand by that statement, and I will repeat it as many times as I must.

[i]Edit: despite what nad seems to think, I don't hate him. I don't wish to see him punished or sanctioned. I simply want him, as I want everyone, to be considerate about the way things are said. Sometimes "being politically correct" is simply being nice.[/i] Edited by Tarquinus

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HELL YEAH!!! Gay people rock!!! they are outgoing caring and nice, even if they do like us, its not an insult, being gay (which im not btw) makes you be noticed in a way that being "normal" never would, being different IS GOOD!!! Many fail to see that weirdos have all the fun :P

On the other hand though... gay was never meant to be and most people who think their gay are actually intended to be straight, they simply suffered enough torment to think that they are that much different than the rest of us and eventually went gay. I say this because i have felt almost "gay" at times, but then i came back and i said... i still like girls better :P, but anyways, dont yell at me if im wrong this is just my idea.

Edited by The Great Pashweetie

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I actually just re read your post, Seigheart and one thing stands out to me:

[quote]Those who have endured years of torment for their sexual preference should be admired, not pitied, or made fun of. They chose to be outwardly DIFFERENT. [/quote]

[quote]For those of you who pity those who are "gay", where do you get off pitying them? Protecting them? This is just as big an insult to these people. They do NOT need protecting, nor to be coddled.[/quote]

These two sentences to me seem to contradict each other.

You're fighting for homosexual rights, while, at the same time, saying they don't need protection or being coddled, or whatever. Sometimes they DO need protecting, when open gay bars, and students still get brutalized and attacked and overall harassed. From personal experience, I was harassed for being 'lesbian' and to this point, I beat the living day lights out of anyone who decides to insult me in such a way. Not just because I find it offensive, but because I will NOT have someone judge me on my sexuality and therefore try to control me via insults and harassment. Not the point.

Again. There is a point between being an advocate, and then being a blow heart. To be honest, I don't think ANYONE on MD needs to have to be told that using ANYTHING derrogative is unacceptable, and the first thing that comes to mind when you post something like this is trying to give yourself good PR for whatever reason.

I used to always harp at people for using gay as a substitute for stupid, but it was so frequent that I gave up. Does that make me a bad person? Not necessarily, considering I live in a strict republic state. Edited by Curiose

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Good god we are still discussing this. Really people I think we could be more constructive then this. I have to say this is one of the fastest growing post I have seen to date and i just see the same thing being posted over and over just in different variations.

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