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Mya Celestia

No Pines in MD?

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[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]I've looked off and on during the 2 years I've been here, and I'm wondering if I'm just blind.

There are [b]no[/b] Pine (needle) trees in MD.

I started thinking there maybe a reason. Anybody have any thoughts or ideas on this?[/font][/color]

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My gut reaction would be to consider the nature of an Evergreen. Are there other such plants among the Lands?
I would almsot expect this is intentional, keeping the deciduous Trees only, to reflect the Principles of Cyclicity and Balance, and whatever else you may attribute to that concept.
but it is a really, really intriguing question to research further. Darn these ever-growing ToDo lists.. :huh:;)

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[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]I was raised around the lumbering industry. My town is a "mill" town. I notice this sort of thing.

Granted the absence of a particular type of tree may not be as important as other things, it still is something. Sometimes what's missing is significant, too.[/font][/color]

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I would think that the deciduous trees are simply dominant in the climate of Loreroot and MB.
At my home place, i only ever see trees with leaves when they are planted by men, the needle plants, first and foremost spruce and larch, handle our short, dry summers and long, cold winters much better, and are less likely to break under the snow due to their tall, slim growth.

When i travel 1500 feet lower and a bit to south, i can see the leaf trees in between gradually, until they make more of the woods in the warmer regions of Italy.
Maybe the forests are simply too tropical for the tiny pines and spruces. :))

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do you really expect that the artist makes this world 100% accurate in geology like in RL? There are limited number of scenes in MD, it can't cover all types of trees and whatever else. I am really skeptic about Mur leaving out pine tree on purpose just cause it symbolizes something, or making a point about nature of this realm via pine trees...

You didn't question yourself how do the plants create CO2 when there's no night, or something like that, but why are there no pine trees...

you have, I believe, noticed that you can't feel/see the weather here, as far as we know there's no winter (or any season changes for that is), so climate requirements... are a tough subject.






p.s.

there is at least one Pine tree - Christmas tree at GoE :P

Edited by Rhaegar Targaryen

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Not only is there a lack of pine trees. Where is the bamboo? Or rhododendrons? Or date palms? Eleagnus? Cactus? Mullein? Eucalyptus? Venus fly traps? Pampass grass? Truffula trees?

Obviously, I am just being silly. It seems that the only named plants are oaks and maples. Does that mean all the others are missing? I think it means the scene artist has preference for drawing a certain style of tree, and perhaps those trees happen to reflect the oaks and maples that are common to temperate north america (I won't speak for europe since I have no idea).

You never know, maybe some new part of Tribunal will have a pine forest. Or a truffula tree forest ;)

I'm sure I could work a conifer into my garden if you want. Maybe a little blue spruce tree. I had a great beer brewed with spruce tips in Durango, Colorado one time.

(Please don't hold it against me if it turns out there really are rhododendrons or bamboo or one of those other things growing somewhere. I haven't really looked or thought about it real hard before posting.)

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if we gonna go there.. why would you think mountains are colder in MD?

do you realize we know nothing about, firstly, nature of the "sun" in MD?
It isn't like the Sun that shines our Earth, or maybe it is, you have to prove it first in any case.

There is a chance I'm completely wrong here, but by my opinion, pine trees are totally irrelevant (so is any other plant) unless they present some symbolical value where they are desired to, cause we are here on a development of our minds, spirits, sort so speak, while having fun along the way. Each has his own mission to fulfill to himself, some answers found in MD can be very well applied in RL (or at least, the struggle to find answers will serve you in general, not just in MD, and I'm saying that realizing that "question>answer" became a cliche here), so this world is not supposed to make new Earth.

People are creating imaginary worlds within an imaginary world.

Anyone is free to tell me to stop if people are here willingly roaming in their own fictions - there are artists in RL, creating "new worlds" despite having their own real world to explore, it's natural to have artists here as well, which is nice, but I am just making a point to those who are seeking the truth.

Pip made a point
[quote] Not that this means nothing, but perhaps it would be more pertinent to look for what is there rather than what isn't. [/quote]

if the topic was made out of pure fun or tease, then forgive me.
This is just my opinion and I am not trying to degrade anyone.

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Well this can be answered by biology. Sentient life has only been in MD for six years now. Trees started out as simple twigs that had photosynthetic abilities as the trees evolved they become leaves in order to capture more sunlight. This was during the time of CO2 fertilization when the planet was full of CO2 thus warmer so there was no need for trees that had needles. Since MD is still warm and the large amount of sunlight there is no need for trees to evolve to such a point that they can continuously preform photosynthesis in the cold months since the time that they can use in order to produce enough energy for them selves is endless almost because night only comes in MD several times a year. Thus growing needles would actually be naturally not an advantage as they can not capture as much sunlight.

It is due to this disadvantage that there are not a large supply of pine trees in our society as they would not be able to produce as much energy as others causing them to produce seeds less often as it takes a large amount of energy to reproduce. This theory suggests small colonies of pine trees throughout MD closely packed in the forests of lore root and other locations in order to allow these small colonies to be close enough to each other to breed. The time of pollination of the pine trees must be different from that of the other trees in order to allow them to survive separately or else evolution would select for larger leaves making the pine tree slowly phase out unless that has already happened.

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[quote name='Kamisha' timestamp='1296689737' post='78368']
Well this can be answered by biology. Sentient life has only been in MD for six years now. Trees started out as simple twigs that had photosynthetic abilities as the trees evolved they become leaves in order to capture more sunlight.
[/quote]
The Angien that opened the box wasn't sentient? The wizards that created Golemus weren't sentient? Those things certainly didn't happen in our time.

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I would suspect there are two obvious reasons for that.

1) There is a christmas tree that is a symbol in general, i guess in this game there is also something similar. Any other pine tree would feel hurt to see one of them killed in such a festive way each year. It would also lower the significance of the Christmas tree and its meaning.
2) The company building this game realy hates me and thought of this when they designed this game so I wont enjoy pine in my food. This is obviously a conspiracy aimed at me and pigs in general!



This is getting really concerning and life threatening. I would also like to ask a very important question to the developers of this game... why isn't there a coca plant in MD? Its very tasty. What are you aiming at by that??

I heard about trees named bob, places with NO plants, a weird obsession about nightshade and relatives of that species, and now i see this atrocity...NO PINE TREES

This plant-racism should stop! Listen to the pig instinct inside you and protest with me WE WANT PINE!



In case my piggish humor isn't humanely acceptable for the pine haters, i appologise for this irony.

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and you believe, Kamisha, that this "sunlight" we have is as live-giving as our Sun in reality?

MD is mirroring our minds, not our Earth, therefore it doesn't have to follow scientific rules. Do your dreams have any sense? :P

Edited by Rhaegar Targaryen

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[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]Actually having all deciduous trees means that the forests are all climax forests thus meaning they contain old growth. They are at the final stage of the forest cycle. The lack of pines and many of the faster growing trees means they contain no younger growth.
[/font][/color]

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[quote name='Mya Celestia' timestamp='1296786273' post='78442']
[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]Actually having all deciduous trees means that the forests are all climax forests thus meaning they contain old growth. They are at the final stage of the forest cycle. The lack of pines and many of the faster growing trees means they contain no younger growth.
[/font][/color]
[/quote]


The climax of the forest is not the final stage of the cycle, but rather a peak before a long plateau. During the plateau, the strongest trees of the forest continue to grow and reproduce, ultimately dominating the ecology, leading to the forest's eventual decline due to lack of diversity. The lack of diversity makes the forest prone to fire, blight, disease, insects or other predators, etc. which will bring death to the forest and start the cycle again with new pioneer species.

With regard to conifers as pioneer species, it is true that this is often the case in the United States. White pine is one of the dominant pioneer species in the eastern US and particularly the American South. Blue spruce is a common pioneer species in the Rocky Mountain region, and Douglas fir is a common pioneer species in the West. However, there are also conifers that are not pioneer species, but old growth in American forests. Two examples are the Pacific Northwest coastal region, dominated by sequoia (redwood) forest and the Hemlock old growth forests in northeast regions, such as the Catskill plateau in New York State. Looking outside the US around the world, there are examples of extremely slow-growing pines and conifers that would not serve the purpose of pioneer species, but are particularly well adapted to their climates, moreso than the deciduous trees that might take their place. Edited by Rumi

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[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"][quote]The climax of the forest is not the final stage of the cycle, but rather a peak before a long plateau. During the plateau, the strongest trees of the forest continue to grow and reproduce, ultimately dominating the ecology, leading to the forest's eventual decline due to lack of diversity. The lack of diversity makes the forest prone to fire, blight, disease, insects or other predators, etc. which will bring death to the forest and start the cycle again with new pioneer species.[/quote]

I was thinking about that at my last post and couldn't quite find the words to say what I wanted. I've been struggling with the words through this whole topic that I wanted to make a point with. Many see the scenes in MD as meaning things much deeper. Windows to the creator's mind as it were. There will be those that see something and say "Why is that there?" Rumi's response has brought forth what I was thinking. While there are things that are there, doesn't the lack of something speak volumes as well? [/font][/color]

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It does indeed. I don't know about this pine matter, but in general, its true. It depends on how well or how random things are thought of in here, maybe if something is missing its just missing and its nothing planned about it. Maybe there are pines somewhere in the mountains? are there any? It looks to me there are mountains in the south-west of the map.

I didn't discovered the entire map yet, but for me it seems there are a lot of other things missing. Shouldn't they also be considered important then?

For example i didn't see any river and..weird thing...i never saw any kind of animal?? ..not to mention there are no pigs!

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[quote name='Pig' timestamp='1296909361' post='78494']
For example i didn't see any river and..weird thing...i never saw any kind of animal?? ..not to mention there are no pigs!
[/quote]

There is a stream in Golemus (Power's Ascent or nearby) that flows down to a watermill (Golem's Mill).

Animals would not want to expose themselves to view, I suspect, so no conclusion can be drawn about their existence.

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