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Jester

Rebels Being Alts

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I haven't tested this yet myself, but I never saw anywhere that alts cannot be Rebels. I think this is a big concern, because somebody could create a lot of new accounts, join a land for a month, and then switch to Rebels. On a personal note, this is making me paranoid about letting any new players in, and that can't be good for my Land or the new players themselves.

I propose only the oldest active account be allowed to Rebel.

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This could be too limiting, Jester. Some players, Seb for instance, have two very distinct characters and do well to keep their roles seperate. I could easily see a case where a player legitimately desires for one character to rebel while the other(s) could remain neutral or even actively involved in the land.

I do, however, agree that some manner of controls should be in place to limit personal bias and abuse.

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But Seb doesn't have two accounts in same lands.
The rule isn't limiting at all, I agree with Jester's idea wholeheartedly.

Practically, nobody would make two accounts, and focus on their development, and make both take the same homeland (usually people make alts to experiance different things),
second, that kind of conflicts are always taken on personal level.
Two alts rebelling out of supposedly different reasons??

And if one alt supports the king while the other one rebels against the king case... you think all would go ok there? that a king would accept the "RP" part? :))

Edited by Rhaegar Targaryen

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Out of curiosity, (let's pretend that they had separate roles n' stuff >>) Pipstickz is a citizen of Necrovion, could MRPip rebel against GG? Or could they both be rebels in different lands? The announcement wasn't so clear about such details, and I know; better safe than sorry stuff, just wondering.

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[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1292359162' post='75454']
second, that kind of conflicts are always taken on personal level.
Two alts rebelling out of supposedly different reasons??
[/quote]

I did not choose to rebel for a personal reason what so ever, I have nothing to gain from it, and lots to loose. I have no issue with Jester personally, and only minor issues with his role as King, of which we have discussed and I hope he will perform better.

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Alright, then let me ask you this:

Why the hell did you bother becoming a rebel in the first place?

You obviously became one because of personal reason, as justified by you saying: Other than having a few "only minor issues with his role as King."

Perhaps thinking before you act would make you better than a blind man, no? Edited by Curiose

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[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1292385578' post='75468']
I did not choose to rebel for a personal reason what so ever, I have nothing to gain from it, and lots to loose. I have no issue with Jester personally, and only minor issues with his role as King, of which we have discussed and I hope he will perform better.
[/quote]


that was aimed, not at two people rebelling out of two reasons, but a person using his/her two accounts to rebel in same land, supposedly with each account having different reasons.
I don't recall you using two accounts to rebel in Necrovion?

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[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1292386722' post='75470']
Alright, then let me ask you this:

Why the hell did you bother becoming a rebel in the first place?

You obviously became one because of personal reason, as justified by you saying: Other than having a few "only minor issues with his role as King."

Perhaps thinking before you act would make you better than a blind man, no?
[/quote]

You obviously do not know the difference between Personal and Professional. :blink:

Here; let me explain.

I have absolutely no complaints against Jester on a personal level. I like how he conducts himself as a person. He's original, and doesn't care what others think. Something I value highly. :))

In his role as King, if find that he has become inactive, and that is my complaint. Does it truely matter? Nope. But I would like to clip this in the butt before it goes any further. A King, in my opinion, needs to be the mortar that holds the castle together. How can the Castle be a fortification if there isn't mortar most of the time? :ph34r:

I am not talking about being a babysitter and doing everything for us, but more like that favourite Uncle to which we go to if we do not want to go to our parents. :cool:

And on another note, Curiouse. Knock it off with the damn rudeness. I have done nothing to be rude to you. I would appreciate you show the same curtesy I have shown you.


Just because a person is blind does not make them a lesser person to despise being. A disability is not something you should look down on someone for. -_-

Edited by Vicarious

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[quote name='Rask' timestamp='1292362208' post='75457']
From Mur's announcement, dated November 11, 2010:
"Using alts to increase the number of rebels of a land will be punished"
[/quote]
This quotation assumes three things:
1. alts are 100% detectable
2. punishment will be swift and severe
3. everybody interpreting that sentence the same way. If we look at disputes, 99% of them are about words and in this case it is easy to claim that the announcement can be read as 'using alts solely for the purpose of increasing the number of rebels of a land, will be punished.' Whether or not that is true or sensible I am not going to debate; it is however likely that someone would try to play that card.

On the other hand, assuming 1, why let them in?

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"Using alts to increase the number of rebels of a land will be punished"

I read that, but it didn't say anywhere that its not possible. For example, you're not supposed to use alts for adepts and worshipers, and it will be punished, but its fairly easy anyways and I haven't heard of anyone being caught. Be realistic, if its possible, people will do it, whether or not it will be punished.

As to the issue of a person having two active roles, I don't think that's very limiting. How many people do you know with two completely separate characters in all of MD? Not enough to make it a deciding factor.

"Having 100 alts rebelling will achieve next to nothing towards overthrowing a king. There is no need for an alt limitation on rebels."

If there was only the 100 alts this would be true. What if, however, there was a difference of only 10 people between the members of a land and the Rebels? Alts could make a huge difference. Also, think of people from other lands being recruited by members of the Rebels in another land. Someone in Necrovion could ask someone from GG to make a simple alt, have them act interested in Necrovion, log on for 30 days, and then rebel.

This whole situation is far too easily abused for my liking.

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[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1292374540' post='75464']
Out of curiosity, (let's pretend that they had separate roles n' stuff >>) Pipstickz is a citizen of Necrovion, could MRPip rebel against GG? Or could they both be rebels in different lands? The announcement wasn't so clear about such details, and I know; better safe than sorry stuff, just wondering.
[/quote]

In theory, no, MRPip could not rebel because only your main, Pipstickz, would have the right to being the main account. At least this is how it was explained to me by the staff.

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For the record, I have no objection to such a rule, though as Rendril points out it's not really necessary.

Mur didn't really like the idea of Keith becoming a rebel, so I have adapted his current outlook to suit that of the excommunicate, or exile, rather than that of the rebel citizen.

I do think that having two (or more) accounts in the same rebellion would be really asinine. I also think it's... risky at best... to have two characters in one land (to say nothing of one alliance; I don't like multiple accounts for one player in CoE, for example). It's a good idea to keep separate characters as separate as possible. If they do the same things and see everything the same way, they aren't very different, and the player is rightly vulnerable to the charge of alt abuse... and at the very least, bad roleplaying. :)

[i]Edited for clarity[/i]

Edited by Tarquinus

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[quote name='Jester' timestamp='1292449118' post='75520']
"Using alts to increase the number of rebels of a land will be punished"

I read that, but it didn't say anywhere that its not possible. For example, you're not supposed to use alts for adepts and worshipers, and it will be punished, but its fairly easy anyways and I haven't heard of anyone being caught. Be realistic, if its possible, people will do it, whether or not it will be punished.

As to the issue of a person having two active roles, I don't think that's very limiting. How many people do you know with two completely separate characters in all of MD? Not enough to make it a deciding factor.

"Having 100 alts rebelling will achieve next to nothing towards overthrowing a king. There is no need for an alt limitation on rebels."

If there was only the 100 alts this would be true. What if, however, there was a difference of only 10 people between the members of a land and the Rebels? Alts could make a huge difference. Also, think of people from other lands being recruited by members of the Rebels in another land. Someone in Necrovion could ask someone from GG to make a simple alt, have them act interested in Necrovion, log on for 30 days, and then rebel.

This whole situation is far too easily abused for my liking.
[/quote]

Considering that the rebels do not have an automated system for dethroning a King, then anyone who used alts to inflate the number of rebels to a significant extent will come under the scrutiny of either Mur or the Council. In which case, they will most likely be found out and punished, with no damage being done to the position of the King.

If you are indeed worried about the potential impact to newcomers, what I said should be enough to reassure you.

On the other hand, if your concern is merely for keeping your crown, I would suggest that you try to live up to the expectations of your position. You would not have to worry about rebels if you were actually an active and dutiful King.

I would also point out that in your initial post, you are essentially threatening to punish innocent newcomers for your own unjustified paranoia.

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A Kings worth is not measured in how many rebels he has against him, But more of their status and position in Necro.

You could create 20 alts to all rebel, but they would have no effect wheras if pample is rebelling she has much more power. Since (im guessing here based on what has been said previous) the number wont merely matter, and there will be/is a human element in deciding if the king is truely awash with rebels, that they will relise that suddenly a tonn of new accounts are all rebels.

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I guess the bottom line like most of us and myself previously felt is that the rebel system was made to take the human element out. The actual use of the rebel system should be put to rest as to allow the human element to assess better than just walking through necro and then make a decision depending on what facts have taken place in the time being.

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[quote name='Kamisha' timestamp='1292485298' post='75570']
I guess the bottom line like most of us and myself previously felt is that the rebel system was made to take the human element out. The actual use of the rebel system should be put to rest as to allow the human element to assess better than just walking through necro and then make a decision depending on what facts have taken place in the time being.
[/quote]

The problem with this 'human element' is that it is not reliable if the people using it must rely on an outside person to *maybe* do something in response. The people themselves WANT to do something, but how can they when the thing they want to do relies on an outside, perhaps indifferent, person? Are the people wanting to do something not human? Therefore no 'human element' is lost- it is only stifled by lack of ability to properly act due to reliance on unreliable elements. This is also the problem that the rebels currently have with the king of necrovion.




[size="1"]edited for typo.[/size] Edited by Aysun

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You shouldn't be relying on anyone else anyway, there is no "must" rely on. There are lots of things the rebels can do if they want to, but they dont. For a rebellion, its incredibly quiet and well behaved. It is the least rebellious rebellion I have ever seen. You don't actually need anyone to do something special in order to advance the cause, because if you as rebels do what you should be doing to fulfil the title of rebel then things will happen as a result of that anyway. If rebels feel stifled from a lack of activity, it is their own - and you might want to have a think about what human element might mean, because it doesn't mean what you are talking about there.

[quote name='Aysun' timestamp='1292516647' post='75581']
it is only stifled by lack of ability to properly act due to reliance on unreliable elements.[/quote]

What or who are you accusing of being an unreliable element?

Unless a King already knew who people's alts were, and unless once the rebels tip enough to call an election an instant alt check is done on all rebels, then a King is left trying to play detective. So this isn't a totally unfounded thread despite how some people want to portray it.

Z

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