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Muratus del Mur

Permanent Tombola Options

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I am thinking to make tombola somehow permanent event. There are however some things i don't like and prevent me from doing so. Other things i like very much and make me search for an option.

I dont like:
- too much random picking
- too much dissapointment if you are unlucky. if you keep spending and you dont win anything month after month you will be very upset
- creates the feeling md is only for those thay pay
- people will pay just when tombola runs so they get tickets, otherwise why to miss it when credits can wait anyway.


I like:
- its a way to reward those that support md financially the most with things i cant put in shop
- gives a reason to purchase credits even if otherwise you wouldn have on what to spend them anymore
- it is a social event and an opportunity for a small monthly party
- boosts md income and maybe we can put some advertising again, not just "survive" from month to month like now



Suggestions:

Option 1:
- permanent second level shop. This shop would have public list of items that are with limited stoc and not always the same. From time to time i will add things to it, while others get bought. It wont be nested like the normal shop, but things in it will variate in value a lot. Drachs, full tokend creatures, magic ctc options, all sorts of things from actual transferable md things (items, creatures, etc) to custom services like gold avy and creature modifications. The price would be calculated in one of these two ways (one or the other, let me know what you think best):
Variant 1) every 200credits you have, spent or unspent, regardless when, means one ticket to this shop to pick any item you want
Variant 2) a ticket would cost 100 credits, taken from unspent credits (and placed to spent)

Using credits for this will allow purchasing of credits regardless if shop runs or not, and will also allow subscription 50% bonus to count more in such cases. A lot of players already have lots of unspent credits just because they buy them to sustain MD, not because they need them, and that needs to be rewarded somehow.


Option 2:
- a montly list with hidden rewards. a list with as many numbers than the numbers of paying people. Each person to purchase anything from the shop of a minimum of 20$ that month, can pick one number from the list (just one). The majority of the rewards will be smaller but everyone buying at least 20$ worth of credits will get a reward from that list. Some rewards will be very high, like tombola. There wont be an actual credits cost, its about if you purchased credits or not.


Option 3:
- a monthly list with hidden rewards like above, but a choice on that list would cost 20credits. You could buy as many numbers as you wish and at the end of the month the rewards associated to each number will be revealed.



Note:
the more automated this thing goes the less powerfull the maximum rewards will be.
Option 1 - most crazy rewards but very very few
Option 2 - moderate with some special things, a moderate number of players
Option 3 - above shop level but not shockingly special things because players with most money could buy too many and i dont want that, i want a more even distribution.

At least thats i assume the distribution levels will be.


This is not a poll, the number of buyers is inferior to those playing free, so its not fair to count number of votes. I am interested in reasons why one or the other. please be short or i wont read all of it (sorry). I am interested to know if you are a regular buyer just in case your opinion is based on that. If you analyze it from a general perspective i dont care, and i prefer not to.


Analyze all parts, the values unbalance one, the moral one, the "md is for smart not for rich" part, the fact that people keeping md alive the most need to be rewarded differently than the regular shop but also the fact that without enough users i am forced to put a way up to raise more funds. This winter we will survive thanks to the tombola and the upcomming chrismas limited edition items, but in the next period it will be very hard. Now more than ever because the purchases now covered what we needed and people made their reserve of credits so they won't need to buy anything for a while...

Analyze whatever other balance or moral issue you see that i don't see.
There is an other option i have but i don't like it, to increase shop stock three times so that everything in shop will get deeper and eventually require more credits to reach... or to change prices to 2$.....I DONT LIKE THAT, but its an option if none of the above are good enough.


This is not a question if i should, nor a vote on how i should do a shop change. It is a honest debate with you , all the players, paying and non-paying, about how to do MD financial politics in the upcoming future so that all three parts are happy about it. By three parts i mean "MD" as a business that needs to sustain itself and also expand, the paying players, and the non-paying players. Do not ignore non-paying players in your analysis. Its there where some of the most brilliant md minds come from, they need to have same chances somehow. I dont mean fights, i mean collecting things and gaining reputation so they raise up on the reputation level. That is _VERY_ important.

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I like option 1 with either variant would work well. It would allow those that only get credits through the voting services the chance to eventually be able to get into the shop while still allowing those that pay either sporadically or by subscription the availability to buy special things from the shop.

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[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1291418754' post='74278']
I dont like:
- too much random picking
- too much dissapointment if you are unlucky. if you keep spending and you dont win anything month after month you will be very upset
- creates the feeling md is only for those thay pay
- people will pay just when tombola runs so they get tickets, otherwise why to miss it when credits can wait anyway.
[/quote]
As a non-paying player (try saying that ten times fast X.x), I have no problem with you rewarding those who support MD through Tombola, because if I had the means, I'd also be buying credits, even if Tombola wasn't running.

To resolve your third point, you could have a small chance of winning from free credits could be added
To resolve the fourth, you could make credits bought outside of tombola count as tickets
To resolve the first (and the second, a little), you could make previous winners less likely to win (or unable), as this gives people who haven't won better chances
As for the second, there's really no way to get rid of that as long as it's random; if you don't win the lottery do you quit RL? Just sayin'.

As for your options, I would prefer either option 1 or 2, because 3 is just more expensive MDShop with slightly better things, and Tombola should be "Oh, wow!" not "Oh, neat". In my opinion anyways.

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I'm a consistent monthly contributor to MD, and from my perspective, the big tombola-type event would be fantastic (Option 1, variant 1). To me, I don't really spend the credits terribly often because I don't feel like I need very many things from the shop anymore. But, I still let my credits build up as support and on that basis of "I might have a use for these one day..." So, I think something really big that come about from continually doing this, but not too frequently (200 instead of 100), would be like an extra incentive to keep on. AND, say we get up to that point and get something really awesome - further incentive to do it again.

Issues... Well, I certainly understand that option 1 isn't the most friendly to non-paying players.. but, I do not think that a Free Credit lower limit ticket is the way to solve that, because that just means double prizes for people who buy credits AND use free credits, and that's not really balanced either. So yes, it leaves the possibility for free players to get involved, but I think realistically they would not become involved because 200 is a LOT of free credits. I do NOT like a rift between paying vs. non-paying players, though if this is the path to be taken it will likely be a wonderful reward for those who contribute the most. And of course, the option of giving people tickets to the second level for things other than money would be an option.

One more thing to consider is that players who may be unbalancing things due to their extreme use of the item shop (myself included most likely), will be the most likely ones to get the bigger prizes...just making that gap bigger. Food for thought.

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My first $40 was for me, then next $100 for MD, the last $100 for prizes to give out.

To put supporters on even footing with the brillient poor, give timbola tickets for wp's earned as well as credits bought.

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I am one of the non-paying players so here's my point of view.

I personally don't care at the moment(I'm a MP4) if the paying players get more out of MD than the non-paying player because like you(Mur) said paying players [b]SHOULD[/b] be rewarded and I get that I would also do the same if I had the same situation but the problem is not [b]ALL[/b] non-playing players see it that way. Some may think that it's unfair and just rage quit but in my opinion the ones that will do so is the immature players who just wants to get what they want(No offense).

And on to my choice:

I choose option one but could you not make it public? Because I hate it when I see what I can't buy. You're just being cruel.lol just kidding. But seriously please consider hiding it or make only visible to paying players. Just a request you can ignore it if you wish.

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[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1291418754' post='74278']

Option 1:
Variant 1) every 200credits you have, spent or unspent, regardless when, means one ticket to this shop to pick any item you want

[/quote]

personally i think this option makes the most sense. this could be why it was your first option and variant of it?

the only thing is, i bet this would release a huge amount of things from the older players. so how to deal with that? i am not a paying member right now, maybe soon, but just can't do it right now. however i was a paying subscriber in past and it be nice if that counted towards something like this idea puts forth.

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I have intentions to be a regular purchaser of credits, whether the tombola is held or not.

But if the Tombola is held regularly, it would effect the pattern on how I will buy them.

I feel Option 1 is the way to go because:

Only a few players get to win something (maintaining the balance for paying vs non paying)

Crazy rewards are given (I believe that if a reward is given, let it be something that is worth it)

And most important of all, PARTAYYYYYY AT THE GOE! (any excuse to party!)

:)):)):)):)):)):)):)):))

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i absolutely hate when the stuff you give out as _big_ rewards gets commonly available for money, but i guess there's no option.
Even so, i think a slight randomness should stay. So, my opinion is that you should create a list of stuff for your second level shop and keep it secret.
Then, you put an option to the shop saying 'pay x credits for a random secret ultra-cool uber feature', whereas x is some value you deem worthy, and depending on how many... less valueable things you put there. After paying said value of credits, the buyer gets something assigned randomly.

That way, you get more income, and the non-paying players get an illusion that people can at least not choose something particularly cool just for being payers.
Also, obviously, that list of things could well be used to assign people special rewards, once it's completed. To equalize payer-notpayer a little.

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[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1291418754' post='74278']Option 1:- permanent second level shop. This shop would have public list of items that are with limited stoc and not always the same. From time to time i will add things to it, while others get bought. It wont be nested like the normal shop, but things in it will variate in value a lot. Drachs, full tokend creatures, magic ctc options, all sorts of things from actual transferable md things (items, creatures, etc) to custom services like gold avy and creature modifications. The price would be calculated in one of these two ways (one or the other, let me know what you think best):

Variant 1) every 200credits you have, spent or unspent, regardless when, means one ticket to this shop to pick any item you want

Variant 2) a ticket would cost 100 credits, taken from unspent credits (and placed to spent)Using credits for this will allow purchasing of credits regardless if shop runs or not, and will also allow subscription 50% bonus to count more in such cases. A lot of players already have lots of unspent credits just because they buy them to sustain MD, not because they need them, and that needs to be rewarded somehow.
[/quote]


Option 1 Variant 1 has a big weakness, that would mean the current shop would be emptied- If you don't make it work back for the past, it's kinda unfair, but several people would get 3 or 4 tickets. In theory free credits would allow you to get it as well, which is a good thing though. If you start with a new record from now on, it would be different.

Variant 2 seems more interesting, but also should allow the non payers some kind of way to enter...not sure how, because 100 creds just from free creds is unlike the 1 cred shop idea. Here I go with Burns' idea, however wish to include the option of exchanging WP for credits as well then, which existed back then, and maybe can be added to wishshop? Obviously this only should apply to manual giving with log checking, since this is very subject to abuse, and some WP we found should still be removed. (Other forum topic, just a sidenote) Edited by Shadowseeker

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Thank you for your opinions, this is my current prefered variant, keep telling what you think.

- List with "100" hidden items. 
This list will fluctuate based on how i add prizes to it and number of buyers. Sometimes it can be that  the list is almost empty, other times to have 200 items, etc. Over half of the items will be overpowered in current sense. The features provided will however become common in the future through this shop/tombola or ingame abilities (like magic ctc)

- spent and unspent credits will count in 100$ increments as a ticket to pick something from the list. The list being hidden, it means people wont always get what they wished for. It also means people will see what the shop had before but not what it has now, allowing some suspanse.
 Or 200$ ?? 

- wishpoints will count as 40$ spent credits. Or 10$ ..Or 20$?
both spent and unspent count the same


- list with numbers and players will be always public but only once a month it will be revealed to show winnings. event at goe or automated, depends on month mood and time.

- no limit of choices one could select per list. This is important for old players that currently have lots of credits and wp. It means a 100 items list will run out very fast.

- In future, tickets to this thing will be tradeable items so they can be awarded and traded.


did i missed something?



 

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Given that you can acquire 8 WP by AD (possibly, at least that's hw the talk goes) and we have one from broken pattern possible as automated ones, I say 1/5th of the ticket value. So if the ticket costs 200$, then each should be worth 40$, if it costs 100$, then 20$.

If you however implement this the first list has to be huge, since several players will receive multiple picks. (I can only guess the total amount, but it would be way over 100...)


Randomised picks sound like a good idea.

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I also prefer option 1, however I wonder how easy it would be to have the Second Tier Shop have features for purchase based on the following system:
A) Each credit gained counts as one ticket (or each bundle of 5 credits, or whatever)
B) Items in the second tier require multiple tickets (large numbers like 50 or 100)
C) Access to items in the shop is based on both Supporter level and how many tickets you have remaining (No reason not to have items with a cost of 50 tickets but a requirement of 75 unspent tickets remaining, say)

This would produce a system using a second currency of tickets rather than credits, so no change would be needed in credit values.

The only problem is you would need to fix it so that gifting people credits increased supporter level as well.

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WARNING : LONG POST ahead ;)
[quote]
Option 1:
- permanent second level shop. This shop would have public list of items that are with limited stoc and not always the same. From time to time i will add things to it, while others get bought. It wont be nested like the normal shop, but things in it will variate in value a lot. Drachs, full tokend creatures, magic ctc options, all sorts of things from actual transferable md things (items, creatures, etc) to custom services like gold avy and creature modifications. The price would be calculated in one of these two ways (one or the other, let me know what you think best):
Variant 1) every 200credits you have, spent or unspent, regardless when, means one ticket to this shop to pick any item you want
Variant 2) a ticket would cost 100 credits, taken from unspent credits (and placed to spent)
[/quote]

As a ... mostly non-paying player (i got corrupted :P) I would choose Option 1, Variant 3)

"3)" meaning specific prices for each item, with automated system to lower / increase the price if they are bought too less/much.

I would suppose that this system with 100/200 would be difficult to achieve by free-credits (but are still credits) and not all items would be worth 100$. (this might look that I would be against the idea, but I'm not).

But if lower prices would be included, then, yes, one could get tempted for 10$-20$ to get something that he wants.
Also, including the automated system would limit the number of items through their price.

If you do want in consideration this option and if you want to take in consideration the automated system ... then ...
- each item in shop should have a starting price and a minimum price (this price would have to be really high at beginning so that lowering them would show their real value)
- if one day nothing was bought ... it's price would be reduced by a fixed amount (1$ for commonly bought items / 2-5$ for initial prices until first buy or until middle between initial and minimum prices )
- it more then 1 items is bought in one day, then price should be increased by 0.5$ for each additional buy ( for 2nd item increase by .5, for 3rd by .5 making it to 1$ more, to 4th it would increase the price by 1.5$ and so on)

- if the item lowers its price for more then 10-15 days ... it should be removed from market (for a while at least so that it's fate would be revised)
- items can be reintroduced to market on periodical bases (holidays / birthdays / weather :P)




[u]Also[/u], as this would allow all non-players, including alts, there should be some sort of limit
If there is a count for how much a player gained from bought credits ... then this limit can be defined like this:
- at least 5%(no less then 1-2$) of the price of item should be covered by bought credits (decreasing its number from general counter)


Or ... you can make from this the 2nd lvl shop and from your "option 1" the 3rd lvl shop for real spenders :P

PS to Muratus del Mur : yea, yea, I know I already told you about it, but now it is written and will be last time I mention about this.

Edited by No one

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[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1291418754' post='74278']

Option 1:
- permanent second level shop. This shop would have public list of items that are with limited stoc and not always the same. From time to time i will add things to it, while others get bought. It wont be nested like the normal shop, but things in it will variate in value a lot. Drachs, full tokend creatures, magic ctc options, all sorts of things from actual transferable md things (items, creatures, etc) to custom services like gold avy and creature modifications. The price would be calculated in one of these two ways (one or the other, let me know what you think best):
Variant 1) every 200credits you have, spent or unspent, regardless when, means one ticket to this shop to pick any item you want
Variant 2) a ticket would cost 100 credits, taken from unspent credits (and placed to spent)

Using credits for this will allow purchasing of credits regardless if shop runs or not, and will also allow subscription 50% bonus to count more in such cases. A lot of players already have lots of unspent credits just because they buy them to sustain MD, not because they need them, and that needs to be rewarded somehow.


[/quote]

I think that this is an interesting idea and I think it would work very well ^_^ my only question is would you have to spend 100 credits after this came into place or would it take into account the amount previously spent in the shop?

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[i]Option 1[/i] I like best, because it rewards for exactly what you want to award for - foundation support. Low level support is already rewarded via the shop imo.

[i]Option 2[/i] means anyone can get involved, but it also lacks the pull to invest unless you put in at least one really major thing each time.

[i]Option 3[/i] I don't like at all, it is too...messy, and basically I think it will just turn into a glorified second standard shop, nothing particularly special about it in the end.


I agree with Luc, I would prefer it isn't a visible list of numbers and players etc etc as I can see that just causing even more ranting and jealousy.

I like that tickets can be traded, cool idea, great for yet another option for quest rewards when we nomads have no direct wp options (yes we can ask kings, but I'm sure everyone knows what I mean here).


To gain a higher income any of these will work pending on what rewards you place and how - potentially that's really the hard part. What is up for reward, not how to reward it. If the items arn't special enough, it isn't enticing, but to keep them special they have to remain rare...but by giving them out you drop that rarity. I'm sure this is already being taken into account, and of course this matter doesn't come into the mix if it is literally just to reward those already supporting rather than to also add extra income.


Z

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i like option one with varient one of the ways to purchase. That way you are nto only rewarded for helping currently fund MD, but shows appreciation for past service to the MD fund.

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