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Muratus del Mur

Conceptual Matter Regarding Death And Life Importance

Death vs Life  

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[This is sort of offtopic, but leave it here in magic please]

Taking an important and unavoidable event in someones life, generaly and theoretically speaking, answer me this:
Is a worthy death, one fitting the life till that point, more valuable than a meaningless life to follow for a longer period after ?

Thx

LE: clarification needed. its about same life lived before a crucial moment, not about two different lives one meaning less and one with meaningfull death. Same one, different direction. Edited by Muratus del Mur
clarification

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If I may justify the positive answer I gave...

I, personally, believe that life is too short anyways. Pleasures are found all the way to the end. It is you to decide whether you will enjoy them or not. I am of the theory that I would like my life to have a meaning from the moment the day starts and until it finishes. Even if this mean leaving for only two more years (hypothetical number here). I do not wish to live for 80 years (hypothetical again), having accomplished nothing and regret for the things I didn't do.

There is saying that 'Life is too short, to live it poorly'.

I am not sure if this answers your question better, but it is how I believe it.

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Death is what makes life important in the first place. One finds real life through death, the moment that is realized one isnt leading a meaningless life anymore. I cant answer this question because it forces certain answers and doesnt give enough room to truely answer. For what do you live your life? To be prepared for death and embrace it as ur closest friend or to avoid it as long as possible or the countless options inbetween? You are dieing by living and you are living by dieing, by seperating the two you miss what they really are.

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Yet wouldn't using death to conclude and complete your life also mean a way of giving up?
Don;t get me wrong, i would answer the same (YES) but i am trying to see all aspects of it
unlived life can be just assumed to be meaningless, right? even under clear proof (for example someone becomming vegetable after an accident) , even then, unlived life can hold unknown surprises.

I believe meaningless life after (AFTER, not allover) is less wrong than selfdestructing life that would destroy what was BEFORE that moment.

Now question still remains,
but i would like, in case you comment your vote, to focus on "valuable" .. valuable for who? for that person? for its image and effect on the others around? valuable just so in general? It makes yes/no more interesting don't you think.

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Valuable for others or in general can probably happen either way. A glorious death after an exeptional life might motivate other people. But even if said person doesnt die and continues living a now "meaningless" life he might still be a good example for others to learn from. That is how I can think of valuable in this context. Otherwise I understand the word without the concept of time. And if time doesnt exists then valuable becomes something completely different. I dont want to go offtopic but take a look at every lifeform besides humans: do you think they are aware of time? Does time has any influence at all for their life? The past is something gone already, untouchable, something that cant be changed anymore. The future is infinite could be anything but as a matter of fact doesnt exist yet. The only moment one is able to influence life, change it, make an impact is in the present. The present is a present/gift its the only time that gives anybody power - the power to influence his/her life or the one of others. In this very present moment the past doesnt matter, it holds no power anymore and the future is decided in this very moment. So in my point of view nothing like time exists in the first place. There is only the presence and nothing else will ever matter. (If its hard to follow what I mean try this: close your eyes and ask yourself what problem do I have in this VERY moment/sencond. You wont have an answer because there is no problem. Problems only exist if you give the past the power to rule your life)

I dont think dieing has anything to do with giving up. If one was giving up on life he did so way before he chose death. Death was only the final option available because deep down the person understood that he wasnt living the whole time anyway.

As for selfdestructing or meaningsless life:
In my opinion its the other way around: a selfdestructing life isnt uncommon, in fact many celebrities live such a lifestyle but they are still "valueable" to/for society. A person who gave up on life truely lives a meaningless life, he refuses to honor the present he was given and with that holds no power at all. He cant impact anything and is stripped of all his power - he is harmless and will be ignored. He turned his life into something useless and meaningless which is the greatest crime one can commit to oneself. By giving up on life he strips all meaning from whatever he has accomplished and doesnt value anything. A selfdestructing lifestyle only destroys what was build before but leaves its meaning (that is for the person itself. How others judge the situation is completely different)

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This depends upon your view of what shall happen afterwards.

If you believe the death is the final end, the void, nada, then no.

Because a meaningless life has a chance to create something a new, while the death uterrly bars that option.

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You have touched on a very personal note as I lost both my foster father, and younger brother within six months of each other. Both were exceptional men, and can say with confidence that I would be dead if not for their actions in my younger years. Both were also taken early from this world and had they lived would most likely have done so in a vegetative state. I have stared at this post for nearly an hour letting the question course through my veins, and if I were to be honest I would say that although their time in my life was short it was profound (not just for myself, but for many others), and would not have it any other way. I do not know if this answers your questions clearly, but felt compelled to post out of respect to those that lived true to their heart, but died in their prime.

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[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1290833550' post='73375']
Now question still remains,
but i would like, in case you comment your vote, to focus on "valuable" .. valuable for who? for that person? for its image and effect on the others around? valuable just so in general? It makes yes/no more interesting don't you think.
[/quote]
This question is completely tied to the question who determines whether a death is worthy, fitting, noble etc. Personally I think only three answers can be considered - in order of importance:
a. The person who dies
b. Some kind of deity
c. The people who realize they profited from the death

As a side note, I believe that everybody should have the right to die. Currently people do not have the right to live, but according to laws have a [b]duty[/b] to stay alive as long as possible.

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a worthy death can be a strong symbol for chance for those around to see and understand it...like a last cut to make a perfect diamond, any cut taken after will only make it lose from its beauty

but also...life is precious, even a meaningless life after a crucial moment can be a good place for the seed of change to grow...hope is never to far away

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In the matter of living a life, I think it all comes down to self-importance, in a sense.

If you value yourself, or if you value the overall idea of life, then perhaps one is more willing to take what they have moreso than one who is strictly apathetic, and allows their body to degrade and become what is now a preconception of the United States' ciizens. But anywho.

After death, one no longer has the right to manipulate things around them [unless you believe in ghosts, and an afterlife, etc.]. To me, I believe death to be something short, while having an everlasting impact, i.e. for instance the death of Poe. He may not have lived a completely meaningful life, but at the same time, he became renowned for his stories after his death, including other writers whom I can't remember the name of.

I may be skirting around the question a bit [personally it feels like I am circumventing again] but the point I am getting to is simply:

Each side has their own coin. However, I do believe that a death meaningful enough to surpass that of one's achievements in life is indeed more meaningful than that of one sitting in front of a television. But then one has to define what exactly -is- meaningless, for one simply living as a hermit could have just as great an impact on the rest of the world but have their life considered meaningless.

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All depends on what you consider a "worthy death" to be. In my opinion, a worthy death would be if you sacrificed yourself to save someone. ex. Someones drowning, you jump in, save them, but somehow you get swept away and drown. That would be better than watching them from afar and not trying to help at all. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I just watched.

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If someone were to ask the general public this same question (probably with some re-wording like glorified/purposeful death instead of worthy, mundane life instead of meaningless life), most people would most likely answer no, and because of that I am tempted to say yes, but it really depends on the circumstances. For example, if I'm 80, I would probably say that I would've rather had a worthy death earlier, but if I'm 20 and taking life as it comes, I would probably want a longer life.

In any case, there really is no way to guarantee a completely meaningless life. Even dudes that live alone in the mountains have purpose, even if it's just surviving for tomorrow. When he dies, will anyone notice he's gone? Probably not. Yet, he still had purpose, and purpose is something that many people have trouble finding.

To conclude, my answer is basically neither (or both...whatever) Edited by Pipstickz

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