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Muratus del Mur

Non Fighting Guilds And Their Fighting Issues

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the reason why guilds and alliances are tehnically the same thing is to reuse same interface for both and to force people into deciding on one of them and not both.

MD has few people, allowing one to participate in more than one guild or alliance would be a desaster. Its enough that some of you do as ten while others have no clue what to do at all.

The problem comes with the increasingly more non fighting guilds. A guild means also land affiliation, that is good, it makes people divided on lands and i want that. It comes also with alliances advantages and disadvantages, thats not so good.

how to limit players to only one guild or alliance but at the same time allow them the freedom of allied or non alied play as they wish? Land affiliation is not a problem afterall. For extreme cases where neutrality is a must, there are always the neutral lands.


This was kind of solved with the factions idea, but i couldnt bring that to an end due to various reasons.

how could i improve the current alliance system to better support non fighting guilds? +1000000 defence? ...guild members will NEED to get heat too, it will be a must. I am already working on heat storing recipients so a non fighting guild could comission a fighting guild to refill their heat needs.

this is a very serious matter, alliance concept with what it offers now is simply not what someone would like for its non fighting guild. At the same time i want them grouped in a guild and not just sharing a flag or a unwritten loyalty pact between them. Guilds need a leader, common advantages and disadvantages, members list, private chat, LOGO, name, land, etc...very similar with alliances if not identical.



keep your suggestions SHORT AND CLEAR TO READ, if your idea is good i will ask you do develop it, dont write neverending novels please, i need to analyze all your suggestions.

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[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='10 August 2010 - 11:37 AM' timestamp='1281436647' post='65580']
how could i improve the current alliance system to better support non fighting guilds? +1000000 defence? ...guild members will NEED to get heat too, it will be a must. I am already working on heat storing recipients so a non fighting guild could comission a fighting guild to refill their heat needs.
[/quote]

That will merely encourage fighters into the guilds as they would be much stronger than non fighters

Perhaps you make the attack cooldown much longer for them, they would be able to be attacked less, so it would mean they fight less.

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Solution:

People in guilds will be given a permanent sanctuary mode which would only come off during such times as heads and/or torchs.

Give each guild a similar build bonus wise to the Tainted Warriors:

EI: 500 Briskness, 50 Energetic Immunity, 20 Trade Sense

This way they can still gather heat, and not bother about combat focusing on their role, should they wish to fight they simply leave the guild, this would also allow them to keep creatures.

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A heat storage, which also degresses over a long time.

Means, alliances which fight can store their heat instead of worshipping, also getting loyalty, since it funds the treasure.

The heat gathered will decline slowly, but MUCH more slowly than usual.

This heat can be transferred to non fighters. In return, they'd..give something to the fighters, which the alliances determine themselves.

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Put them in a no-creature illusion, probably with a little briskness boost, which can't be put to an end unless they leave their ally.

btw, dst already provided the solution they can already take, and mostly just don't want. It's not like it was hard to keep out of fighting... if you really want. Imo, they don't need any help to do that.

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My thought would be to shift the system so that instead of guild members not being able to attack each other, it is the other way around, nobody else can attack and fight them but they can fight with each other in order to gain heat/exp to level artwork of crits if they want to.

Z

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What if each land was given a giant erolin storage device? Guild members can access the shared heat for their purposes. People with citizenship can donate heat just like they do for Protectors currently. And perhaps a portion of heat generated from Alliance vs Alliance fights automatically go to the storage of their respective lands.

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That Other Guy's idea, but with Zleip's suggestion instead of the sanctuary thing would be ideal for me personally, but if the briskness isn't enough then perhaps have a heat storage item that can be filled by members of one guild only and passed around (with a timer on it that returns it to the leader after so long).

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If non fighting guilds are given too much defense, or just not being able to get attacked, then resource gathering would be too easy. Two ideas i have might be somewhat good:

1: If you are collecting resources in your own territory, such as cutting a tree in MB, you will have higher defense, but you wont gather as much resources. Then, if you want to be able to gather more resources at one time, you will have to travel to other/enemy territory, where your defense bonus wont be as high, but youll get more resources. Just because youre in a non fighting guild doesnt mean you should have to sit in your own territory all the time collecting easy resources without worrying about dying.

2. Make it so that people not in your non fighting guild cant attack you, but you will have to fight with NPCs to reach your resources. An example: you just joined a mining guild, and you have to go down into some tunnels. you encounter an elemental or something that is blocking that nice shiny gold looking rock, and in order to get to it you have to kill it. Stronger enemies will guard better resources. I would like this option since i want to be able to do some kind of combat while gathering resources, instead of just being safely protected by being in my own land.

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^ Ratsplat, one of the great things about MD is that there are almost no NPCs. Let's keep it so.



An idea: give guild members +1 million defense, but -1 million attack, and very low vitality regeneration.


This would somewhat balance the defense benefit and further support the non-fighting aspect.
Possible other stats to give, varying between guilds: briskness, trade sense, energetic immunity, regeneration, luck.

Attack cooldown could be increased to the old 40 minutes for guilds.

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This is a funny topic.
[b][u][i]EDIT:[/i][/u] Sorry for the long post.
There are 2 parts:
- my comments on what others said
- ideas on topic[/b]


[quote name='dst' date='10 August 2010 - 01:49 PM' timestamp='1281437385' post='65583']
Brainstorming idea:give the non fighting guild members the option to kill their crits(or kill them by default when they join the guild). No crits, no fight, no headache.
[/quote]
This should be forced as to no crit from entering untill the exit from that alliance. And no age for crits too. Also, the creatures should be stored away.
Just like the suggested illusion.


[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' date='10 August 2010 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1281459398' post='65623']
My thought would be to shift the system so that instead of guild members not being able to attack each other, it is the other way around, nobody else can attack and fight them but they can fight with each other in order to gain heat/exp to level artwork of crits if they want to.

Z
[/quote]
Z, you disappoint me. Can't you even conceive the magnitude of abuses ?

[quote name='Ratsplat' date='11 August 2010 - 05:32 AM' timestamp='1281493939' post='65700']
If non fighting guilds are given too much defense, or just not being able to get attacked, then resource gathering would be too easy. Two ideas i have might be somewhat good:

1: If you are collecting resources in your own territory...
...without worrying about dying.

2. Make it so that people not in your non fighting guild cant attack you, but you will have to fight with NPCs to reach your resources.
[/quote]
NPC Fights were never the goal of the game. For an experienced MDer, fighting (winning / losing) means no threat what so ever.
Collecting resources is not the point of this topic.

Also ... heat ? why would they need heat ?
Ok, buying heat would be an interesting features.
But heat from alliance fights ? Are you joking ? if you cannot fight with the guilds ... there are not that many ppl to attack.

As for land erolin ... that would be interesting :).
I can only imagine its use and its limits. Maybe with max limit of 200-250k heat. Heat drop at normal rate. Heat being stored like normal heat.


[b]--- ON TOPIC ---[/b]

IMO, the guilds should not be considered as special alliances with special restrictions.
Indeed, if you don't care about the fighting ... there are ways not to fight & not to be attacked (as already told in this topic to kill your own creatures).


[u]Heat [/u]? There should be no need for heat to a guild. But if Mur wants to implement the gathering of resources with heat ... then it MUST be from import :P.
That way you [u]trade resources[/u] for something and will not make the guild a the center of MD.
And resources should be available to whomever requests them for the fair price of heat.
Any other kind of price ... it is not fair (not that MD was intended to be fair) but might lead to abuses (of power and influence if not other kind).

[u]"better support non fighting guilds?"[/u]
Depends on what do you mean ?
1. statuses ? ... 1kk is too much and fighters will take it over.
Give them Regeneration 1500. That will solve their problem.
Briskess is a MUST NOT if you want to give the heat.

2. protection ? from fights ... that must be on personal level.
there are 2 ways that I can see now: when joining a guild , [u]after 1 day[/u] (to prevent abuses) you receive the possibility to kill all your creatures (only one time for each join).
Another way would be the illusion for the entire period (immediate illusion will trigger some abuses).

3. protection ? from alliance fights
Make possible some sort of alliance statuses .
Make possible that one guild to pick another fighting guild as protector (add its statuses) but only with based on agreement of the other alliance.
Limit the protection to max 2 guilds for each fighting alliance.
That way they get some extra protection and will lead to more cooperative playing (hopefully).

Edited by No one

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Heat from import is a very good idea. I will start working on recipients that will allow massive heat storage. The problem is how to limit this heat to be used only for guild activity and not for fights.... thats harder than it looks but i have some ideas on how to do it.

forcing guild members not to fight is not so interesting idea, but giving them enough to do to keep them occupied with a steady guild activity is much more interesting.

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I know that this is a really old topic, but please bare with me and this topic bump.


We all know that guilds have been created, heat storages have been created, items have been created for each guild.

But how do the guilds work now ? Do they use heat storages ? Do they fight ?
Can some one please share the status on them now ?

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[quote name='No one' timestamp='1333617265' post='108299']
I know that this is a really old topic, but please bare with me and this topic bump.


We all know that guilds have been created, heat storages have been created, items have been created for each guild.

But how do the guilds work now ? Do they use heat storages ? Do they fight ?
Can some one please share the status on them now ?
[/quote]

I consider that a problem, people consider guilds only as part of a role or well the word should be "restricted to a role". I think a guild is more than that, guild should fit the role and should enjoy the other parts of md as well (fighting, contests, etc). Unfortunately, as I said, we don't see that often, but I do hope we all change our perspectives and star enjoying the variety that MD provides.

(I advertise and do some stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy fighting, rp (even thou I'm very bad at it), or making quests. Actually with more time I'll be doing all mentioned since it's what I consider a real MD.

Opinions? :)

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Hi BFH,

You have my respect in what you do with "free credits".

What it bothers be is all the "guilds" created for a purpose that now it is no longer met. Those guilds should be disbanded and maybe some penalty too. Afterwards, if the need for those guilds still exists ... then fine , give them to someone else.

That is all i want to say.

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[quote name='No one' timestamp='1333812096' post='108463']
You have my respect in what you do with "free credits".
[/quote]

Thanks

[quote name='No one' timestamp='1333812096' post='108463']
What it bothers be is all the "guilds" created for a purpose that now it is no longer met. Those guilds should be disbanded and maybe some penalty too. Afterwards, if the need for those guilds still exists ... then fine , give them to someone else.
[/quote]

I agree with you in that, but actually and what makes a big issue is that most of them aren't following the initial purpose for which they were created.

Leaders change as time pass and therefore their perspectives. Perhaps we should have a discussion on what the community expects of all guilds/alliances and if we (the community) believe that the expected aspects are actually beign put in action. [maybe a poll after initial post]

IDK just an idea

and because I can alsmost read your mind Chew, yes we are a bit oftopic :P srry :)

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[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]Do you believe all the guilds are not fulfilling their duties or just specific ones? I'm curious how you've arrived at this?[/font][/color]

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