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Ravenstrider

The Angien At The Howling Gates

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I do not know if this was researched, but I can not find anything concerning it. I wrote down some of my speculations and would like your opinions as well. If this is something that has been discussed or considered a spoiler in one way or the other, feel free to delete this topic. If it is something not to be discussed and left a mystery(like the Who killed Marrin deal) also, feel free to delete it and punish me as you see fit.

I wrote a small note after I saw it with a few thoughts. Here it is:

[size="2"]Notes on the Angien at the Howling gates. Day 15 in the realm.[/size]
The Angien at the Howling gates intrigues me. Could it be that it is a sign of balance? Light and Dark, back to back, never seeing each others faces. Avoiding battle this way, because they are so different that if they even saw one one another face to face, battle would be inevitable. Where the Shades Angien banished to Necrovion and could it be that the Angien forever holds guard in front of the Gates? Or would it be a symbol of Angien turning their back on the Shades.

It is interesting to think, if it is, indeed, a sign of balance,that maybe Khalazdad found the truth behind it and because of that proceeded to seek balance himself by dividing his soul into two pieces. (though other reasons are given in both stories and history) Could the Angien and the Shades be one of the same, divided in search of balance?
Or could it be that trough some method you could transform Angien into Shades. I must have someone who is familiar with creature mutations shed some light on this. (Even though I am not certain that Shades are creatures at all).
If Angiens are alive and Shades are not, can it be that Shades are the afterlife form of the Angien (though this is highly unlikely).

I have no information on this yet. I have to dig deeper.

Note: I know very little of Shades and Angien, as I am new to the realm, so forgive me if I said something that is not correct.

They say curiosity killed the cat, but I do hope this does not end with me being of that fate.


(*readies his lube-tube just in case*)

As I said, I would like to hear your opinion on this.

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Very few people see that, And for that i congratulate you.

I looked into this a while ago, collected any images of supposed angiens and talked to a few people about this, Some doubt it is an angien, I personally believe you are correct in saying it is an angien, But discussing anything more of what i collected would be a spoiler and i would not post it here for it is my own private research.

also im not sure if saying there is an icon of an angien in howling gates is a spoiler as well lol, because people should find it themselves.

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I spotted it quite some time ago and it seemed others who I mentioned it to already knew about it, so I don't think it's that big of a spoiler to mention here. :D

I also have my own theories on why it's there that I don't wish to share at the moment, but it is indeed an interesting icon to have planted right there as apart of the gate to Necrovion.

Edited by Aysun

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[color="#2e8b57"][i]Recently I had a chat with someone about the balance principle. For me I believe it is as important and probably more significant than the power of three. Most philosophies / religions encompass this idea (Ying yang, Heaven and hell, Karma, The wheel of fortune etc. ) The way I see it that in order for things to function at their best , you need to have the two sides of a coin. Take a plant for example. It needs darkness as well as sunlight in order to live optimally. Granted some plants need more light/shade than others, but they need a balance of both to survive, however bear in mind that in order for things to progress there has to be an unbalance.

I think Balance is a "foundation block" in MD, which is why we are rewarded when we are in balance(wins and losses wise), so Im not at all surprised that you found an Angien at the howling gates; for me it goes back to Yin and yang. Which makes me wonder, Where is the other half to this? What balances the Angien at the Howling gates.......? Or is it the unbalance that leads to progression? hmmmmm........ :-?[/i][/color]

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Just my little thought on this

I dont remember clearly but i though i heard that the angiens have a dual personality
it was something i had heard a long time ago and to be honest i have not really looking into
the angiens or the shades that much really.

The idea is a good start i hope you find some answers to what you seek.
No at this point i do not think mentioning the angens statue at the gate
a spoiler. it is more of a pointing out of something and start a descussion
like this.

I would how ever be intrested in hearing your ideas on the subject.

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The more I think about it, the more I am drawn to the idea that it has something to do with the past and what happened between the Angien and the Shades and not a simple sign of balance. Yet it might be both.

As I said before, I know almost nothing of Angien and Shades, and to learn will take time, so I restrain myself from drawing rash conclusions. I have been given helpful information by some people who sent me messages when they saw this discussion, and I thank them. I know knowledge is great gift to give, and I do appreciate it greatly. Though, now I do not know if I am to share that gift here.

Thank you, both Shara and Yrth, for your suggestions. I will try to uncover more(especially about the dual nature of the Angiens) and put my thoughts on it here or in a document, which will be made public when I draw some conclusions. Or maybe even if I just find more questions. Questions are always more useful than facts, anyway. Just as long it is coherent, since I have a tendency to write down alot of incoherent thoughts which need alot of rewriting later on.

I know I haven't said much in this post, but I didn't have the time to look into it a great deal more today, and I wanted to answer your posts.

And on a side note: There are still areas unaccessible to me in the realm, so I am limited in resources by that as well. So if I say something dumb due to a lack of information, please forgive me.

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[quote name='Yrthilian' date='29 June 2010 - 10:47 AM' timestamp='1277804866' post='62925']
I dont remember clearly but i though i heard that the angiens have a dual personality
it was something i had heard a long time ago and to be honest i have not really looking into
the angiens or the shades that much really.
[/quote]

You are correct, It is said they are duality being (NOT dueling beings like many people incorrectly assume) meaning they are not all good or evil. There is always two sides to a coin.

I myself believe that yes they are two sides to an angien, and that their duality is based on something <removed stuff i dont want to post lol, contact me as we can have a further discussion later if you wish to> in this realm Edited by Chewett

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I have always thought of the tiny Angien as a totem.

A sign of sorts, like "Abandon lightness all ye that enter" or "Please leave your conscience at with the coat check girl and don't forget a ticket"

Most of you are theorizing that it has to do with balance, but I think of it more as a warning, a touchstone of sorts for those who enter to remember the small part of them that was lightness and goodness, and to either protect it or abandon it when passing through the Gates.

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I'm not entirely sure, but haen't we long times ago said that shades and angiens are exactly not each others balance?
Because the Angiens balance themselves of some sort or something?

I have also never favored the idea of shades being locked in, but rather think that the shades lock us out of their land.
The icon doesn't have to be a charm to keep the shades in, it might as well be one to keep the evil out.

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i wont say much but burns is right there. people misunderstand the angien shade balance part when mur mentioned comparing them might teach us a lot. its not that the angien balances the shade or that they are opposites. its that by understanding how the shades aquire their balance one can understand more clearly how the angiens might do it.

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I could not find anything on the web about Angiens.

But if they are duality beings, then we who play this game itself are actually duality beings. If Howling Gates has an Angien there then perhaps it is representative of the mirror of our true selves. I'm just starting the game....so please take my comments with a tremendous dose of salt.

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[quote name='Keilerian' date='23 July 2010 - 06:38 AM' timestamp='1279827521' post='64375']
I could not find anything on the web about Angiens.
[/quote]
That is good, since Angiens are only existent within MD and we are not supposed to post things outside of the MD community like that (Spoilers and the such, I mean).
We have an Archives, Forum, File Hosting, and Game (chat) site for anything we could need to discuss, going outside the game environment is entirely unnecessary.

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[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' date='22 July 2010 - 05:08 PM' timestamp='1279836481' post='64391']
That is good, since Angiens are only existent within MD and we are not supposed to post things outside of the MD community like that (Spoilers and the such, I mean).
[/quote]

Not strictly true. The shades are not limited to this Realm, and nor are the Angiens. They take different forms in our world and are...hidden in the open shall we say. Just as many other things.

As has been mentioned, it is definitely important to note that the Angiens do not balance the Shades - but that what we can study one from the other can help us to learn something about the other ~ as well as about ourselves and our world potentially.

In addition, for your searches, you'll want to remember that art is not rigid. Allow some fluidity in what you think might be or not be within the art in the Realm. On top of that, the Realm itself is not rigid, and the art Reflects this; you may be able to find something in the "bigger picture" of things.

Note that the creatures themselves may even be able to tell you something...

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I realized most of my presumptions were incorrect.

It does not have anything to do with (direct) balance or history between the Shades and The Angien.

Angiens have their own balance, as many of you mentioned, but still they are a part of the realm, and as such connected to shades. Balance should not be seen as two sides to a coin, but a part of a dynamic system that seeks balance by reacting with it's parts... The system itself is balanced and doesn't change, yet it's parts are in a state of chaos, constantly moving.

The Angien itself might have to do with Necrovions role in the realm. ->Would insert a bunch of information others were kind enough to share with me, but that wouldn't be fair, so I'll leave you to draw conclusions for yourselves.<- Edited by Ravenstrider

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Alright...

As I wondered about the relationship between the angiens and the shades and the icon of it discussed here, the I Ching came very much to mind, along with a suspicion that the relationship between the two species resembled one of the relationships between hexagrams.

So I of course asked the i Ching how to interpret this relationship: "How can I understand the angiens through the shades?"

The answer had some personal undertones, which I won't focus on here (Essentially, it's telling me -- but not you! -- to give up or expect very slow progress on this puzzle.)

P'i, with a nine in the fifth place:

12. P'i - Standstill [Stagnation]

-----
--ϴ-- above Ch'ien The Creative, Heaven
-----
-- --
-- -- below K'un The Receptive, Earth
-- --

"Creative/Receptive" reminded me of Mur's description of the relationship as "Question/Answer," and "heaven" reminded me of the wings angiens have.

There's a lot more to be made of this, but especially note the judgement and the image, which may describe both my relationship with this question and the relationship between the species:

The Judgement

Standstill. Evil people do not further
The perseverance of the superior man.
The great departs; the small approaches.

The Image

Heaven and earth do not unite:
The image of Standstill.
Thus the superior man falls back upon his inner worth
In order to escape the difficulties.
He does not permit himself to be honored with revenue.

Nine in the fifth place means:
Standstill is giving way.
Good fortune for the great man.
"What if it should fail, what if it should fail?"
In this way he ties it to a cluster of mulberry shoots.

By the way, above, Heaven (the creative) is turning into Flame(the clinging,) suggesting that Stagnation can become Progress. This might happen through the operator of Fire over Heaven, "Possession in Great Measure."

Fire in heaven above:
The image of Possession in Great Measure.
Thus the superior man curbs evil and furthers good,
And thereby obeys the benevolent will of heaven.

Necrovion won't change anything any time soon, this says (and with the recent turmoil there, I suspect recovery is not nearby;)
Following the shades will not lead to progress.

(source: http://www.cfcl.com/ching/)

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Following the shades may not lead you to progress but i am sure to others it might.

Also i noticed something interesting. I am not sure if this is just pointless information or what but when you click on the gate it will only light up if you click on the right side of the remaining support beam(?) and it made me wonder why can't we click on the left side of it? is it because of that totem?

This is probably something that does not needed to be pointed out but i was curious as to what others thought of this.

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I have always thought of the tiny Angien as a totem.

A sign of sorts, like "Abandon lightness all ye that enter" or "Please leave your conscience at with the coat check girl and don't forget a ticket"

Most of you are theorizing that it has to do with balance, but I think of it more as a warning, a touchstone of sorts for those who enter to remember the small part of them that was lightness and goodness, and to either protect it or abandon it when passing through the Gates.

 

 

Not strictly true. The shades are not limited to this Realm, and nor are the Angiens. They take different forms in our world and are...hidden in the open shall we say. Just as many other things.

As has been mentioned, it is definitely important to note that the Angiens do not balance the Shades - but that what we can study one from the other can help us to learn something about the other ~ as well as about ourselves and our world potentially.

In addition, for your searches, you'll want to remember that art is not rigid. Allow some fluidity in what you think might be or not be within the art in the Realm. On top of that, the Realm itself is not rigid, and the art Reflects this; you may be able to find something in the "bigger picture" of things.

Note that the creatures themselves may even be able to tell you something...

 

Contemplating this again recently (was Numerius Felix) I reached a conclusion similar to our dearly missed pamplemousse.  The small angien is...an excuse.  It's an excuse to descend, to the site of the well of tears.  

 


Hush, hush, little one, don't be sad,

You drowned in the well because you were bad.

I believe, at this point, that descent into necrovion is guided by a similar set of mental events to the hatching of an angien.  Doubt creates action within duality as the connection to the balancing point is broken on both sides...the good doesn't seem so good, the bad doesn't seem so bad.  And then the whole doubt begins to seem small, and you move the opposite direction, through the gate on the right.  You dissociate from the angien, and that's the "mistake", (maybe not, might be an appropriate response to certain hatched dualities) because then it falls silent.

 

E: Similarly, when someone is escorted in, they reach the demented ascent.  Right now this seems to me more like a play on words, that you ignore the duality to "go along with" the duality/crowd/doctrine...think "spirit of the herd" spell.  However, the rest of the way up, you'll necessarily make a crooked turn because of the choice to ignore a doubt/question/contradiction between reality and the doctrine rather than resolve it now...you'll have to resolve it later, that's the twist.

Edited by Ackshan Bemunah

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