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If I was a mod I'd close this post. The GGG is basically dead. Last time i went there was about 2 Mp3, 3Mp4, 3 Mp5. It's dead so just close this topic.
I'm surprised an anti GGG topic went this far with so little flaming...

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[quote name='Sharazhad' date='13 June 2010 - 08:55 AM' timestamp='1276440925' post='61793']
[i][color="#2e8b57"]Pip and redneck I clearly remember seeing the two of GGG quite happily gaining the benefits from the training ground.  I think it quite hypocritical of the two of you to start chanting for its closure.  [/color][/i]
[/quote]
Have you ever fought me? Or even read any of my posts in this topic? I've stated many times that yes, I have used GGG, but I've never had the patience to use it much. I used it much more with MRPip than I did with Pipstickz. MRPip rarely comes out anymore.

And this is all ignoring the fact that your statement about me would only apply if I had used the GGG to actually get stronger in a way I didn't/couldn't get outside of it. As Chewett has said, 1000 stats is low, and how many of my stats are at or above 1000? None. Do I have a bunch of VE? No, I only have about 40k, most of which was gotten from story mode and heads contest.

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[quote name='Pipstickz' date='13 June 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1276463802' post='61828']
Have you ever fought me? Or even read any of my posts in this topic? I've stated many times that yes, I have used GGG, but I've never had the patience to use it much. I used it much more with MRPip than I did with Pipstickz. MRPip rarely comes out anymore.

And this is all ignoring the fact that your statement about me would only apply if I had used the GGG to actually get stronger in a way I didn't/couldn't get outside of it. As Chewett has said, 1000 stats is low, and how many of my stats are at or above 1000? None. Do I have a bunch of VE? No, I only have about 40k, most of which was gotten from story mode and heads contest.
[/quote]

[color="#2e8b57"][i]I have Pip.  My point remains, whether you used it as Pipstickz or MRpip you still benefited from it, and then to vie for its closure is wrong.  For assuming that you gained all your stats from GGG I apologise.  Its an excellent place to train if you are weak, or blundered by saccing the incorrect crit but I feel it needs more moderation, and firmer rules if it is to remain the training ground that it is now[/i][/color][i]. [/i]

[i]
[/i]

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Let's return to the original post, shall we?

[quote name='No one' date='03 June 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1275598475' post='60910']
You all say that some players are overpowered, some creatures do too much damage.
YES, you allowed some to over (ab)use this GGG to achieve all that.
[/quote]
Some players are indeed way overpowered, but they did not use the GGG to get to that state. They used tokens, especially on creatureboost creatures. Protest this, please.

[quote name='No one' date='03 June 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1275598475' post='60910']
All of the players should be attack-able at all available locations with whatever anyone desires.
That should be the first rule.
[/quote]
You technically may do so, but you must accept the social stigma, spells, and item casts when you do.
So, this is already in place.

[quote name='No one' date='03 June 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1275598475' post='60910']
Also, any use of spells to send someone away because they don't like the attacks is an aberration and should be punished.
That should be as a second rule.
[/quote]
Similarly as with attacks, spells can be cast freely, but the caster must accept backlash. It's a battle of wills, basically.
So, this will not be implemented.

[quote name='No one' date='03 June 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1275598475' post='60910']
Any gathering for "ggg kind of reasons" within closed location should be forbidden. (This cannot be achieved at this time but it should be enforced)
[/quote]
It is technically within the rules, as is your protest, so it will not be forbidden.

[quote name='No one' date='03 June 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1275598475' post='60910']
I hate ggg grinders that gained HUGE amounts of stats for nothing, no effort what so ever.
[/quote]
Stats without knowledge how to use them are pointless. So why do you care?
And now with the GGG shrunk, this is less likely to occur.


Conclusion: The protest has no goals left to gain. So why is it not officially over yet?

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I say put a cap on age for mp3 and mp4 level no matter what the XP.At this point it works the same as XP cap. no more stats , no more XP and add this No more age for creaturs. And make it so if they are in a Allaince they may stay what every mp level they wanna be if they drop the allaince Badge they move to next mp level or even jump 2 levels according to the age cap. Exsample: if mp3 has the age and drops allaince for any reason they jump to the mp level as mp age caps, so a mp3 may have to miss mp4 and jump to mp5 losing princples from the story. After all, traning is not only to make you stronger and a better fighter it is also to perpare you to move to next mp level.

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Apophys, Obviously you assume that hippie-programs are a basis of actual movement.

breaking news: they aren't.

The goals are clear, the way is none of your business.
Worry not, we'll let you know when it's over. After it's over.

King Bull, a nice idea, but unfortunately there's a big difference in activity, it's not that simple to place an age cap on mind power. And if it was to be considered, it would be quite high because it would have a very bad effect on casual players to get to mp4 in the time a hardcore player needs to rush through...

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[quote name='apophys' date='13 June 2010 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1276467667' post='61833']
Some players are indeed way overpowered, but they did not use the GGG to get to that state. They used tokens, especially on creatureboost creatures. Protest this, please.
[/quote]
(most) Tokens are already capped in what they can do for you. Besides, tokens and creatureboost are bonuses that are gotten through supporting the game with the MDShop. How does GGG help the game? The answer is that it doesn't. It only makes it easier, which is the same thing spoilers do. Spoilers are against the rules, are they not?

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[quote name='King Bull' date='13 June 2010 - 11:25 PM' timestamp='1276467920' post='61834']
I say put a cap on age for mp3 and mp4 level no matter what the XP.At this point it works the same as XP cap. no mopre stats , no more XP and add this No more age for creaturs. And make it so if they are in a Allaince they may stay what every mp level they wanna be if they drop the allaince Badge they move to next mp level or even jump 2 levels according to the age cap. Exsample: if mp3 has the age and drops allaince for any reason they jump to the mp level as mp age caps, so a mp3 may have to miss mp4 and jump to mp5 losing princples from the story. After all, traning is not only to make you stronger and a better fighter it is also to perpare you to move to next mp level.
[/quote]


Have we totally lost sight of the entire point and significance of the MP levels? There is a reason you don't auto-upgrade.

Z

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[quote name='Pipstickz' date='13 June 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1276468604' post='61836']
(most) Tokens are already capped in what they can do for you. Besides, tokens and creatureboost are bonuses that are gotten through supporting the game with the MDShop. How does GGG help the game? The answer is that it doesn't. It only makes it easier, which is the same thing spoilers do. Spoilers are against the rules, are they not?
[/quote]
A is a subset of C (spoilers make things easier)
B is a subset of C (GGG makes things easier)
A is a subset of D (spoilers are against the rules)

From this, you suggest B is a subset of D (GGG is against the rules). This is a fallacy, Pippy. By your logic, I could argue to reset your account to make thing less easy for you. :P


Name me one player who is too powerful because of the GGG; I am unaware of any.
If people want to waste their time on stats in the GGG, let them.

The only problems I see that the GGG could pose are dividing the public, and suppressing RP. This is easily solved by moving it to a more central location, and encouraging RP within the GGG.

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I dont understand why this thread still keep rolling and rolling with just some more" words game", but i noticed this is supposed to be happen anyway..
These some Point that probably representing the protestant (forgive me if i'm wrong):

[color="#000000"][b]They want the GGG closed, the cause and effects are:[/b][/color]

Stats grinding for no excact purpose (seeing that long of stats digit on ur profile doesnt help u much either in the real battle),

Wasted time to "play" the game in many more develop way (Exploring,experimenting,..Involve much deeper),

Unbalance Power (especially for lower lvl,MP3 and 4), alt abusing (For HC in example and trust me,noob never abusing with alt),

Lack of social interaction for more RP and knowledge share between player (Building a character and get alot of other new "thing" from other/Vets, especially fresh MP Lvl),

Losing the fact that this is a full combat PvP game (Yes, this is Magic duel not Magic Training)


Well i dont want to add more topic on it and no more playing with words, i'll try to put a/some suggestion/s:


[b][size="3"][color="#ff0000"]Fight Experience Bonus
[/color][/size][/b][size="2"][color="#000000"]All Player [/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]that doing a fight/battle as the Attacker side will get an experience bonus point if they win the fight with neutral or balance/[color="#ff0000"][b]no damage[/b][/color] result.

And for a fair reason these some more suggestion:
1K exp bonus to all creats in the rit for no damage fight result in MP3
3K Exp bonus [/color][/size][/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]to all creats in the rit [/color][/size][/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]for no damage fight result in MP4
6K Exp bonus [/color][/size][/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]to all creats in the rit [/color][/size][/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]for no damage fight result in MP5 (With the reducing exp ability its not truly fair enough i think^^)

Well, the goal is how to make the lower lvl (MP3/MP4) player get their maximum effort in training and will precisely know what they should do/train.
I hope with that Bonus (u may also call it as a Handicap), will create a fight for clear purpose atmosfer. And i think not too hard to realize it because it more [/color][/size][/color][/size]technical and systemic, [size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]in compare with all the theory and solution that based on forcing and personal willing for deciding to follow the rules or not. (sorry for my english if there are some stupid mistake,but i'm sure u all know what i mean.. LOL).

[size="1"][i]


PS: For all GGG Pro, i know u all now dissapointed with my post here,but trust me i'm doing it all just for our good purpose.
And for all player..enough with the cold war, i hate war..![/i][/size]


[/color][/size][/color][/size][b][size="3"][color="#ff0000"]
[/color][/size][/b]

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That's an interesting idea, Poppi, but it would be easily worked around. People would add a damager to their rituals for around 15 xp per attack instead of several thousand.


[quote name='Burns' date='13 June 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1276468281' post='61835']
Apophys, Obviously you assume that hippie-programs are a basis of actual movement.

breaking news: they aren't.
[/quote]
I don't get this.

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[quote name='apophys' date='13 June 2010 - 05:13 PM' timestamp='1276470805' post='61838']
From this, you suggest B is a subset of D (GGG is against the rules). This is a fallacy, Pippy. By your logic, I could argue to reset your account to make thing less easy for you. :P
[/quote]
You might assume that GGG is against the rules, from my statement, but I didn't say that, did I?

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[quote name='apophys' date='14 June 2010 - 12:26 AM' timestamp='1276475162' post='61843']
That's an interesting idea, Poppi, but it would be easily worked around. People would add a damager to their rituals for around 15 xp per attack instead of several thousand.

[/quote]


Yes Apo, theres always a chance to easily worked out for something, but for that case..even u win a fight with just deal 1 damage, as mp3/mp4..u still will be capped someday...And what are u going to train with 1-15 damage btw? is it worthy enough?
Well.. Atleast with that "obstacle" u cant train ur trees,stealers and angiens .. which are the most valuable creatures to grind extremely ..:P

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[quote name='Pipstickz' date='13 June 2010 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1276476396' post='61845']
You might assume that GGG is against the rules, from my statement, but I didn't say that, did I?
[/quote]
You implied it; otherwise there's no point to your post.


[quote name='Poppitz Resurrection' date='13 June 2010 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1276476411' post='61846']
Yes Apo, theres always a chance to easily worked out for something, but for that case..even u win a fight with just deal 1 damage, as mp3/mp4..u still will be capped someday...And what are u going to train with 1-15 damage btw? is it worthy enough?
Well.. Atleast with that "obstacle" u cant train ur trees,stealers and angiens .. which are the most valuable creatures to grind extremely ..:P
[/quote]
Let me give an example of what I meant:

[spoiler]An attack rit could consist of 5 remains @ martir dying and a heretic archer @ damage random. The defense rit is a single non-damage creature at/near 100% slider.

You can replace the remains by anything else targeting multiple or dying. Xp gain would be negligible.[/spoiler]

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[quote name='apophys' date='14 June 2010 - 01:04 AM' timestamp='1276477473' post='61847']

Let me give an example of what I meant:

[spoiler]An attack rit could consist of 5 remains @ martir dying and a heretic archer @ damage random. The defense rit is a single non-damage creature at/near 100% slider.

You can replace the remains by anything else targeting multiple or dying. Xp gain would be negligible.[/spoiler]
[/quote]

I surely understand what u mean Apo, but i think thats how they should train, i did that when i was MP3, walk around find a possible target to get a minimum exp for train my damager, and i mean training not grinding, as MP3 u dont have many options and exp to build a super main rit, so u have to choose wisely all creats for the future main rit, calculating the exp cost and start train the stats after done with the main creatures,and i think there wil be not much left after working the main rit, so theres no chance to become overpowered at that Lvl., Strong yes but not overpowered.

And for MP4 which has more cap limit, its the stage to preparing ur self to MP5 (which is like hell), so there's nothing wrong with a little bit stats training,and of course added more new creats with more high requirements that will be need more high exp and win count, and special for MP4 that "border" also give new issue, the fight balance, ...if u try to worked out with ur style above, then theres a chance for u to get a Victorious win,get count on the fight balance, get trouble with ur honor...So almost have a same problem as MP3 i think but with higher exp cap limit.

I just try to give a little input that both "side" can accept in the good way,and of course..in peace

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Yes, because the last two sentences of a paragraph define the whole thing.

As for Poppi's suggestion: Giving EXP for non damage fights is a ridiculous idea. It may limit the amount of GGG training you can do, but so would closing the GGG, just with different effects. It'd make EXP much too easy to get, and just gives people more reward for no risk.

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[quote name='Poppitz Resurrection' date='13 June 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1276478721' post='61850']
if u try to worked out with ur style above, then theres a chance for u to get a Victorious win
[/quote]

If done correctly, no... and the defender wouldn't get a sheath balance, either. I've done it for my TS pair and my imp, at the GGG in fact. I trained my angiens with them. It really wasn't much different from regular GGG training.


The idea would only be effective at limiting multi-thousand win grinding. But for that, Kyphis' idea is better (capping stat gain from sacrifice), for the reasons Pip stated.

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The biggest issue I think is your all talking about calculating all your stuff up as not
to waste anything and all that and I really dont think thats what it is all about.

Nor should you know about that if your new.

I did not. I knew the GGG existed and I had no idea what the benefit was I thought creature wins
without experience what is the point.

Of course I know what that point is now. But what I am trying to say is your all taking it too
seriously.

GGG turned into a beast why? Because people wanted to Make mp3 and mp4 monster alts and it
was the easiest way. How did they get targets? convincing new mp3 and 4 that they need to go
there or they will be anhiliated at mp5. A fear which everyone keeps passing on to the next
generation.

I heard it myself I thought it was overhyped. I came to mp5 I was overwhelmed, I learnt
survivabilty. I started paying more attention to fights. what makes you win them. Before I just
made up a ritual and if it worked I kept using it untill it was broken. I discovered what can
be done at the GGG I used it untill I thought I could compete then left.

I think the biggest problem is people dont want to leave until they think they are the best.
Or think they have the biggest/best stats.

Dont be scared of Mp5. That needs to be the new message not fear mp5. Chuck a whole bunch in the
deep end and sure some will drown. But some will learn to swim and might even thrive.

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[quote name='Burns' date='13 June 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1276468281' post='61835']
Apophys, Obviously you assume that hippie-programs are a basis of actual movement.

breaking news: they aren't.

The goals are clear, the way is none of your business.
Worry not, we'll let you know when it's over. After it's over.

King Bull, a nice idea, but unfortunately there's a big difference in activity, it's not that simple to place an age cap on mind power. And if it was to be considered, it would be quite high because it would have a very bad effect on casual players to get to mp4 in the time a hardcore player needs to rush through...
[/quote]

I agree Burns, so for the casual player what would be the problem? this is a Game about real life the game is not in the interface it is about information in the forums. in real life you are born, you go though childhood then your a young adult, then you drow old and last but not least..... You Die, no one lives forever.
mp2 mp4 mp5 mp6 caps at 42 mil what then? MP7. i think not i have capped mp6 2 times look at me now...i am mp5 there is no mp7 except Mur and its is up to him and only him and he may use information in the forums to make his decisions, but this i don't know. prolly jus gives him idears for to make his decisions. i think i'll stop here.... but life goes on untill you die.no matter what mp level.

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Not sure what you're talking about, KB, because MD is not about the forums. How often does Mur read the forums? As far as I know, he only reads it if somebody asks him to, and if he listens.

Also, there is MP7. I've been MP7, as have many other people, during illusion testing. Grido and Peace were both MP7 for a time. MP7 may not be a public stage, but it's still available.

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[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' date='13 June 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1276470226' post='61837']
Have we totally lost sight of the entire point and significance of the MP levels? There is a reason you don't auto-upgrade.

Z
[/quote]
i do not seem to know that reason and i cannot see a understanding for your reasoning. Just be direct to get to your point Zleiphneir, ...... tell me!

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[quote name='Pipstickz' date='14 June 2010 - 01:32 AM' timestamp='1276479137' post='61851']
Yes, because the last two sentences of a paragraph define the whole thing.

As for Poppi's suggestion: Giving EXP for non damage fights is a ridiculous idea. It may limit the amount of GGG training you can do, but so would closing the GGG, just with different effects. It'd make EXP much too easy to get, and just gives people more reward for no risk.
[/quote]

ridiculous idea? u are the joke! Now i really dont understand about u guys want, i thought u want close the GGG (that in fact u can close the place but can't close it essence ..forever)
I just give an alternative which is not directly "close" it (And i'm just on now and open alot lot message that bashing me badly), and if u said easy exp without any risk, i 'm sure u already forgot how as the MP3 and MP4 they DONT want an easy exp.

Thats the problem for all of u, u guys just see the topic from the MP5 eyes without try to remember how the lower level struggling for survive...

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poppi is right in that mp3s trying to max out specific creatures (or just getting a lot of wins for saccing) generally don't want "dead" exp (that is, exp on a creature that's not supposed to be upgraded beyond a certain level or that's already maxed).

there are however some legit concerns that i think pips and apophys were referring to:

apophys already pointed out that it would be easy for mp3s to get around that by lots of 15 exp wins. also, it would likely re-introduce threshold wins, where you gain just enough exp with certain creatures/actions to increase the stat you want to increase. i'm not sure if it's still possible for each mp level, but with enough ressources it is/was possible to stay at a chosen mp level indefinitely, even with forced bonus exp.

also, you might remember the problem with bonus exp from other sources. automatic bonus exp of this magnitude would destroy the one big mechanic-wise benefit of real fighting - earing stats per fights via exp is faster than just farming wins. with this much bonus exp, no-damage-fights would even become more optimal in many circumstances.

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[quote name='Poppitz Resurrection' date='14 June 2010 - 04:02 AM' timestamp='1276509733' post='61871']
Thats the problem for all of u, u guys just see the topic from the MP5 eyes without try to remember how the lower level struggling for survive...
[/quote]
So you and other older people should make it easier for them? Sparring Grounds are a great place for MP3 and MP4, but do any of the vets help that place? No. Simply because they can't benefit from it themselves.

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