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SageWoman

Dojo Violator Banning

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Blood Princ has been banned for repeated violations in the Dojo at Marind Bell Park. Attacks were made on Staff Members, as well as other Mp5's of all types (Alliances, Guilds, Regular players). Despite Dojo Warnings sent to his Private Message as well as brandings made to his Public Log, attacks were continued to be made.

After much deliberation between Chief of Staff *Ibruzu* and myself, and a consultation with Calyx of Isis via OtherRealm means, it was decided that Blood Princ would be made an example of and banned.

The Dojo works because the Magic Duel community works together with the Dojo Staff and Trainees to ensure that the Marble Dell Park is a place where players of all mind powers can train with each other.

This Banning is a new tool Gifted to only a select few senior members of the Dojo. This is the first time it has been used and it is the hope that this will be a deterent to other players to learn the Dojo rules and know what the consequences may be if they blatently attack players. It is our hope that this Tool will not have to be used again.

Sagewoman
Apprentice Dojo Mistress

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nice, first use = first abuse.

The dojo is meant for MP2 - MP4.
Any MP5 located there is just teaching or hiding. Both cases are attack-able.

MP5 has no excuse for staying in a dojo without being attacked. If you want to go idle ... there are already too many places for that activity.

But hey. if you didn't understood that already ... maybe you should not be in dojo staff anyway.
Since it is not my decision to include you in such a staff ... I'll enjoy farming on any MP5 there.

If you don't want to get attacked ... then do as Tzaroth747 or as Zleiphneir.


in the mean time ... good abusing




Edit:

hmm, wtf is *Ibruzu* ? hmm, i guess i'm not going that way that often or i'm not paying attention :)


anyway,
1. just tell the guy that *Princ Rhaegar* is part of "Dojo Staff / LHO" (in *Ibruzu*'s own documents)
2. "Dojo Staff Trainee/Helper" ... "trainee" is the antonym of "trainer" (in *Ibruzu*'s own documents)

And ... SageWoman ... you are one of the worst kind of abusers in this game : "power abuser".
I will not welcome you in the clan.

Edited by No one

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Banning an active player, nice one...and may i ask when and how you spoke with an inactive RPC? :) ) also on what period is that ban?

BTW: we ban users that speaks dirty, swears , does something very very wrong and after we speak with them and give them last chance. I mean..look at what Rex did to get a ban :)

BTW 2: ''The Dojo works because the Magic Duel community works together with the Dojo Staff and Trainees to ensure(bla bla)'' yes, translatio : The dojo works because the 'dojo staff' and 'trainees' have some extra powers . I mean...without them you all would be dead, and you know it. Look at Training Grounds: not a sing post and you wanted a shiny one or something more then 1 sign post 'to be noticed', not ban spell or something to help them ...and you use to ban active, role playing users ????

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umm real ban for chosing not to respect place that is actually up to each member of community to chose by himself to respect it or not?

edit: i agree with akasha

face it dojo thing is over, just like akasha said your powers keep it alive but as it seams it wont be long till big rebelion against dojo breaks up, in my opinion its better to close it now while ya are still docked with broken ship than to sail and then sink Edited by Liberty4life

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I've said it before, I'll say it again. The Dojo is a choice. This? This isnt a community enforced anything, this is banning someone. Big difference there.

We all know the Dojo is not some sort of "rule" in the game, so how is banning someone for not going along with it in any way reasonable? For one thing, attacking in the Dojo seems like a reasonable thing to do if you dont agree with it. You guys have lots of other functions you can use to achieve what you want without resorting to what I consider ridiculous levels like this, and which would benefit the game's RP too.

Incidentally, I never see the Dojo actually being a Dojo. I see no training being done, I see no lessons, but i see lots and lots of people just sitting there knowing that if they get attacked the person will get yelled at. Frankly I think you need people like BloodPrince to remind you that what you have created is a privelidge to be fought for, not a right for which people who disagree get banned. Or are we "fighting for the rights of the dojo" now?

Z

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I agree, the use of the dojo is debateable now. It's use as a dojo, practicing attack and defense rituals is rarely ever used. I sure never have seen anyone actually hold a lesson or what not. Sure, I see an occasional MP3 ask to try a new ritual or creature.

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Ha! I told you long time ago that the dojo is on the death bed. But noooo! You keep saying it's not.
In the beginning the idea was good and I supported it but in time I realized things need improvement. Unfortunately Calyx and the other dojo stuff refused to do it (thinking maybe that they will lose their power). Well...look where it went now!
BloodPrinc was the first to do it, No one will probably be the second and I will be the third to start breaking the rules. Why? Because they are stupid rules and because I hate the stubbornness of the "creators". The dojo could be such a good idea only if you would emulate it to the needs of the players.

So, all you anti-dojo players out there! Join me! Let's make the dojo a better place! Let's clean the dojo of cowards! Let's clean the dojo of power abusers! Let's make it a better place or destroy it trying!

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yea lets make mdp the new bloody fighting center :D wot goe and willows once was :D at least that wont be hard since lot of ppl gather in there and 50% of them are idle.... that place has all requirements to bring back good old times spent at willows :D

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Better place? The dojo's purpose seems to be being able to change rituals in a safe location. At least Mur said everyone aught be able to change defense in a safe place. Frankly, you aught be able to change rituals anywhere you like, it's silly you have to wait until someone's around. Those that know how know that it's not actually necessary to wait, but my main point is this, the entire institution for such a silly thing as changing rituals safely (something that should be available anywhere anytime) seems ridiculous.

As for what the rules of the Dojo apply to, they apply to all MP levels, and they have never applied to idle players. So sure, you can rebel against people "hiding" in the dojo, but they'll just move to sanctuaries. A simple fix to this would be to have the game "check" whether a person is in a sanctuary after you select charge or a ritual (which it does, if a person has moved into a sanctuary after you attack, but before you charge you can get this message), and only then. This way you could still manage rituals in sanctuaries, problem solved. One might say that MP3s and MP4s could still use a place to test out new rits and grab some wins. To that, simple solution, GGG.

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Okay, I'm confused..
We all know for oh so long that the dojo is a community movement and the rules will be enforced via community will, not by a hardcoded system. So how come a ban spell is given to dojo staff without notice? (Of course, unless, the ban spell was not given for dojo use, but because someone who happens to be dojo staff gets access to the ban spell for another reason, in which case it would be an abuse of power).

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i kind of like the dojo, because it worked with social pressure, but now, i dislike it and will use it on my terms...

meaning to say, 'idle-checking': i'll give those idlers 60 seconds to answer (that seems reasonable), and who fails is dead *mwahaha*

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So, an organisation not offically reconised by Mur has been given banning, Genius

Give them small powers but its like giving alliance leaders ban's because they might want to use it or even letting people be banned for moveing into a location

why ban a player who attacked in the dojo a couple of times? its like banning someone who rp ed a couple of times because you didnt like rp

lets see what the people think?

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/4752-banning-of-player-blood-prince/

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Well, I stated my opinion there and do it repeatedly in case nobody bothers to check:

As to the dojo..before it even got approved of officially, I told Calyx something: Endurance is what will be needed if you wish to walk the path of no harm to others.

(Not these words, but same sense)

That opinion was there and still will be there. And still is here. The dojo can brand people, can tell them to stop, but they shouldn't have the right to take any measures, even if it includes being farmed, if you follow the entire idea of it.

But since so many people cry for help and that doesn't get ignored, well, dreams exist, prison is alike to that, then yes. But it shows the flaw of the dojo not being able to sustain itself without punishment which immediately removes the attacker, which is really sad in my opinion.

So yeah, basically this ban shows that the dojo lacks greatly. If you cannot endure the attacks or make the person give up by their OWN will, then the basic idea of dofo gets thrown out of the way and it becomes into a battleground enforced by rules.

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[quote name='Grido' date='28 July 2009 - 11:44 AM' timestamp='1248799443' post='38113']
i posted this TWICE in the poll topic on this subject.

Ban = Jail, one and the same, when you ban someone they go to jail
[/quote]
SORRY FOR MY IGNORANCE.....
DONT HAVE TO GIVE ME A BAD REP FOR IT.....

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you get your bad rep for permanently spamming topics without even trying to read what other people have said...
or, in case you have read it, ignoring whatever was said...

and you also get your bad rep for post-hunting with nonsense-comments like the last one :D

b2t:
i like that BloodPrinc is unbanned, but i dislike the precedence taht was set...
now the dojo needs to work out something really fast, since all the world knows now that any harsh punishment like banning, dreaming etc. (etc.? idk, maybe sending to Golemus? anyway, you get the idea) will most probably be lifted by public vote...

again, i suggest setting up strict rules and hard punishments without using spells and such, like, telling off at first instance, one hit with regens on second violation, 3 for third violation, permanent xp-bashing whenever they pass through dojo if they still fail to understand... such things...

am i evil? yes i am :)
can we do that to the poor mp4? YES WE CAN :D

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But what do you do about older people Burns? Either the Dojo needs to stop caring about MP5s, or find a way to punish them, I can't really see much of a way to punish MP5s, at least not for the dojo staff anyway. Heck, people chasing me around attacking me with regen wouldn't be so bad, I could use it at the moment.

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i HOPE that we'll agree on stopping the dojo for mp5, that's just not its purpose...
mp5 should be advanced enough to gather xp, losses, wins, whatever they need anywhere in the realms, specially seeing the fact that nearly no mp5 ever stops in MDP unless they are out of ap...

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Hmm...that is an idea...yes. Send them into the labyrinth. If they end up in GG...too bad...they need someone's help to get out.
And if they end back in the main lands...good for them. But it's not that easy :rolleyes:

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I hate to say this but I do agree that the dojo has made some MP5 lax.

Rather than starting an anarchy, lets make it MP5 does not enjoy the comforts of dojo.

I remember when Calyx came up with the idea of dojo. It was to allow newbies (MP3) a safe haven to test their rituals. It seems that the dojo has evolved into a safe haven for some MP5s as well.

Lets not stop the dojo as the losers will be the MP3s.

But some questions still needs to be answered.

1. How about MP4? Do they get to enjoy the dojo as they are not really newbies. I am ok either way.

2. How about the dojo staff? Some of them are MP5s, and they will be open to attack for trying to help newbies. On this point, I would suggest only dojo staff with tags (no tags, no mercy)cannot be attacked in the dojo. LHOs are open for to attacks.

3. Punishing REPEAT offenders. If there are MP5s who cannot respect the work of dojo staff, they must be punished. Will there be an abuse of power on the banishment? We have to learn to trust the player who is holding the banish spell which is Sagewoman. Someone in charge has given Sagewoman the spell, and I dont think it is anybody of irrelevance. Just like we trust the admin in the forums to not abuse their power, we have to trust Sagewoman to not abuse hers. I am sure there will be situations where she used her power and is not agreed by all, but same with the admins in the forum, (I say this with the greatest of respect), have also been called names for doing their job. Lets trust her to do hers. I do not envy her position as her every decision and moves in the dojo will possibly be questioned.

4. Calyx of Isis. A player whom I respect very much, but due to RL issues, has not been able to be in MD as much as required. I do not want to take it away from her, but the dojo needs an active leader, and unfortunately she is not active. Sagewoman looks like the ideal candidate, but Shadowseeker has also challenged the dojo for the position of leader. The leadership issue must be settled fast so that any changes that needs to be made can be done quickly. Unfortunately the only person who can really decide on the leadership falls in the lap of Mur. Calyx consulted and discussed with Mur during the inception and its only fair, if there is a change of leadership, Mur is consulted as well. The dojo is not an alliance but a place to help newbies learn the ropes of the game.

Please keep this in mind when replying to this thread, the dojo started with the objective to help the newbies.

It does not help to flame or to start getting emotional.

By all means make changes.

By all means demand for changes.

But do not forget how much the dojo has helped newbies.

I myself has benefited from dojo when I was always attacked whenever I tried to make a rit.

I did not have a single friend in MD until the dojo started.

It gave me breathing space to learn and understand.

The sanc is good, but not when a young player is struggling to make a rit and finds that he/she cannot coz after clicking on Create New Ritual, the creatures names are gone missing beacuse they are all dead from a swift attack.

We are strong now, the MP5s are suppose to be strong, but please do not forget the new and the weak.

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[quote name='CrazyMike' date='03 August 2009 - 05:04 AM' timestamp='1249293842' post='38595']
I hate to say this but I do agree that the dojo has made some MP5 lax.

Rather than starting an anarchy, lets make it MP5 does not enjoy the comforts of dojo.

I remember when Calyx came up with the idea of dojo. It was to allow newbies (MP3) a safe haven to test their rituals. It seems that the dojo has evolved into a safe haven for some MP5s as well.

Lets not stop the dojo as the losers will be the MP3s.

But some questions still needs to be answered.

1. How about MP4? Do they get to enjoy the dojo as they are not really newbies. I am ok either way.

2. How about the dojo staff? Some of them are MP5s, and they will be open to attack for trying to help newbies. On this point, I would suggest only dojo staff with tags (no tags, no mercy)cannot be attacked in the dojo. LHOs are open for to attacks.

3. Punishing REPEAT offenders. If there are MP5s who cannot respect the work of dojo staff, they must be punished. Will there be an abuse of power on the banishment? We have to learn to trust the player who is holding the banish spell which is Sagewoman. Someone in charge has given Sagewoman the spell, and I dont think it is anybody of irrelevance. Just like we trust the admin in the forums to not abuse their power, we have to trust Sagewoman to not abuse hers. I am sure there will be situations where she used her power and is not agreed by all, but same with the admins in the forum, (I say this with the greatest of respect), have also been called names for doing their job. Lets trust her to do hers. I do not envy her position as her every decision and moves in the dojo will possibly be questioned.

4. Calyx of Isis. A player whom I respect very much, but due to RL issues, has not been able to be in MD as much as required. I do not want to take it away from her, but the dojo needs an active leader, and unfortunately she is not active. Sagewoman looks like the ideal candidate, but Shadowseeker has also challenged the dojo for the position of leader. The leadership issue must be settled fast so that any changes that needs to be made can be done quickly. Unfortunately the only person who can really decide on the leadership falls in the lap of Mur. Calyx consulted and discussed with Mur during the inception and its only fair, if there is a change of leadership, Mur is consulted as well. The dojo is not an alliance but a place to help newbies learn the ropes of the game.

Please keep this in mind when replying to this thread, the dojo started with the objective to help the newbies.

It does not help to flame or to start getting emotional.

By all means make changes.

By all means demand for changes.

But do not forget how much the dojo has helped newbies.

I myself has benefited from dojo when I was always attacked whenever I tried to make a rit.

I did not have a single friend in MD until the dojo started.

It gave me breathing space to learn and understand.

The sanc is good, but not when a young player is struggling to make a rit and finds that he/she cannot coz after clicking on Create New Ritual, the creatures names are gone missing beacuse they are all dead from a swift attack.

We are strong now, the MP5s are suppose to be strong, but please do not forget the new and the weak.
[/quote]

I have read both sides of the issue and it has opened my eyes. Yes. The dojo needs to be updated as all communities must update or rebuild themselves.

Point 1: Too many players use the dojo for the wrong reason.
Point 2: No one is teaching the concepts of setting rituals.
Point 3: Banning players for violating the rules and/or idea of the dojo is too severe.
Point 4: MP5s do not need protection at the dojo.
Point 5: Need there be any more?
Point 6: Mur created a prison for a reason.

I think that the MRs have the correct idea at GGG. All the rules and explainations are right there on the attending staff member's hate page.

They have the power to look at your rit and let you know if it is set wrong. They teach you how to set the rituals and what each one does. The dojo staff should do so as well.

I do not think that the staff memebers should just sit there and send the "This is a dojo, violators will be" speech in the chat evertime it recycles. It falls along as spamming the chat thing.

All new players should be made aware of the dojo at birth inside the paper cabin. Just some food for thought.

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