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(Zl-eye-f)-nea

QUEST: Blame Bob's Enemies

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This is a discussion point for those doing this quest. Any others can join in, give their thoughts etc, but only the following people are eligible for the stated reward as these are the people who have responded to me (NB: At my sole discretion, others may receive a reward of some kind, also in the unlikely event that you messaged me and I’ve missed you, send me a PM):

Eigger, Phantom Orchid, Shadowseeker, I am Bored, Kafuuka, Arturius Drachorn, Domonic

The following is a summary of given theories and speculations as to what we need to do in the matter of restoring Bob’s branch. Please comment and elaborate on what you feel is good/bad etc. Adapt, construct and think about / post here the sequence of actions you feel we need to take.

Light:
Feeds the elements as a catalyst. Can heal- as per its stated description. Use as a guide to show the way.

Time:
Because all things take time. Use this to accelerate the process. Turn back time to the point of when Bob got injured. Use to keep things from going too fast and as a result fold in on themselves.

Syntrophy:
Life force entering the ashes and creating a re-formation. A counter to the effects of entrophy that have occurred. Use fertiliser to aide in this.

Cyclicity:
Life and death, the constant circle of life continues. Deals in opposites, and so could cause an opposite reaction if use with time being turned back. Living things are thought to have come from dust, then go back and reform again, this is cyclicity, so in this sense it is a major force of life and of this situation.

Imagination:
Use to mould the branch into the original branch and not a random one. Will aide the principle of light.

Element:
Bob is made of elements. Experiment with combining different elements and study well to see which works best.

Transposition:
Identify and understand elemental sources and use them to regenerate Bob’s parts. Use to reverse the situation.

Balance:
1 mistake may be fatal so we need to work with balance to ensure things remain going the way we want them to go. Use this to first understand what happened, to understand the opposing effects.


Spells:
Cures- Cures works via an energetic fingerprint. As Priestess Aia for aide with principles of light and syntrophy, use amoran for the energy required as she is a dryad and as such has a connection to Trees. Tweak this energy to make the pattern resemble Bob’s. Apply the ashes as a paste and channel the energy of cures to it.

*Make an salve from the ashes, apply the salve to the spot the branch was removed from. Salve will be made from various plants and herbs found in MD*


Notes from Z:
“Remember that light is not light itself it is the PRINCIPLE of light. This is not the same thing. A small notation that may be useful though: Modify or nullify balance for short periods, so help with protection, healing or even invincibility. Consider the use of a person with an appropriate aura in relation to the element principle. A note on Transposition: Total understanding of identity is to take into account all stages of time for that objects existence into one continuous thought is this of any use to us? Also bear in mind… Hard to use balance to your favour, more art of chance and presumption.”


(NB: before anyone says it, there is loads and I mean loads an enemy can do on this quest if they think about it. For example - give a full analysis of the system of degradation of the branch. So it's open for all to participate in that sense, and the quest will become role play once it hits a point, enemies can then revolt in response and still gain recognition for it. Think outside the box :P )

Z

Edited by (Zl-eye-f)-nea

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We have lots to work with here.

Bob - Life cycle similar to other trees? Grows as they do? Some trees resprout quickly (maples will resprout even if their entire trunk is cut down)

Bloom - Happens quickly (time sped up?)

Was it a clean break and will the branch 'fit' back into place? It may need physical support once it's put back into position. If the trunk has scarred over where the break happened, then we may need to abrade it so Bob's juices will be able to flow into the branch.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Use of principles: I am very pleased by what my cohorts have come up with thus far. The following comments are to further explore and discuss what is already a great start.

Time - beautiful use of it; however, if we are even a little bit 'off' working our magic then any mishap will be exaggerated and it will be harder to go back and fix any mistakes

Syntropy - Life Force / Energy / Mana must be *held* by the elements used in this process, otherwise they will dissipate. For example, leaves have chloroplasts which *hold* sunlight particles and use that energy in the molecular process of turning carbon dioxide and water into carbohydrates (food), oxygen, and water.

Transposition - Having a hard time understanding how this one might come into play

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Spells

I have protection spell Level 3
...Any type of affliction causes as a side-effect one element that leads to its curing.

Here I believe is where the ashes come into play. Also, besides the physical, this action has had the side-effect of mobilizing Bob's protectors.

And Cures spell Level 3
...a well conceived cure is one in which the concoction made by the ingredients has the ability to either model or erase the fingerprint left by the disease.

We must erase the physical, and obvious, fingerprint left by the break, but we must also erase the fingerprint left by evil intentions as well.

These are just a few thoughts for now.

Priestess Phantom Orchid - CoE Edited by Phantom Orchid

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a few notes on principles

since I know elements well and I can see what you need I'll leave you a thought

oftend if two you more elements are used at the same time a new element is formed in this case the "wood" element is needed, just think about what is needed for plants to grow and you will see the two needed.

on Syntropy

this is one of my favorites, first you must remember it comes not from the past but the future, it comes into play with the will of the guardians to do a thing not just the effect. two you must remember is "annulment of destruction based on energy consumption" this is not controling how Entropy acts but nullifng the effects. it will not "hold" energy as orchid is saying that follows time and entropy

time

"Time control can be accomplished by juggling with the way in which actions are perceived and understood." this is all I'll say

Imagination and Transposition

can be used together using the "memory" of a guardian who was there before the tree was broken to shape the growth as treehugger started to say

light

"Light, as a symbol and not as a physic phenomenon, is energy, progress, even life" again I'll say no more at this time

I may say more later

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im giving a new idea, not even sure if this is achievable, but if we will be able to do this, we will not only restore bob's branch but also we will be unlocking 1 of the most powerful magic here in the realm. how about if we try to look for ways to go back to time or to advance to the future (TIME TRAVEL). we can go back to time to see what happened to bob, we can ask Z what he remembered when bob's branch was hurt. but of course it is really different if all, the people trying to restore bob's branch will be able to see it. if we will be able to go back to time, we cant change anything. coz if we will manipulate the past, the present and future will be affected, so all we need to do in the past is gather information. then if we go to the future, there we will see what will be the results of our present actions, of course if we will be able to see that our action in the present will bring more devastating effect to bob, we can still prevent it or make theories on why such results came out, that way a better plan on how to restore bob's branch will be possible. but of course before that, we should try to find ways to travel in time, i think it is hard but it is possible, let us be a little optimistic here. in a realm of magic anything is possible. if we are trying to bring bob's branch back to life, why not try to travel in time to be able to make the restoration faster.the power of life and death is even more complex than time traveling i think

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Do not forget, that Priestess Aia has left, sadly enough. We'd need someone else to be known to be aligned with the light (as in either has the principle or RPs it enough, best would be both).

Whereas all of the principles mentioned are needed that way there's still core principles..I'd advise the core to be placed upon 2 or 3, while other helps help with the rest..trustworthy ones of course, one mistake and all blows up.

@eigger Time travel..ever heard of the time paradoxon? I wouldnt want to risk that.

@storm sorry, but that is basically saying nothing else but what the description of principles say, actually way less. *cough* A bit more constructive perhaps?

@Phantom That was the idea with the paste I think, as in protection. And I think you misunderstand the idea of energetic fingerprints here..

Something had evil intent-> A mark was left, cutting off the tree branch. If you now say you wish to remove that evil intent, wouldn't that also equal destroying the one who did it? Not like that doesn't sound too bad, but that would complicate things a LOT.

Bob is what he is today, by adding together good and evil intent. I'd leave that untouched.

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i didnt heard about the time paradoxon, and i know the danger of going back in time of going in the future, but if we will be very careful, and only do things that are needed to do and dont do things that might affect the whole world, i think there will be no problem, just go back in time just to gather info, we will not stop nor prevent anything there. let the flow continue, we will just be witnesses. that way we will have infos on what we should do

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And are you sure you'll end up in the same universe? :P
I agree with Shadow (even if I would love to see you guys disappear) that time traveling is way too risky. Read the theories about it and then decide if it's worth it or not.

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Simply by perceiving something you can alter it...ever heard of quantums?

When you shoot them onto two openings, they don't choose one, they choose BOTH to go through. When you observe the single quantums however they don't do that anymore somehow, as if knowing you watch them.

Heisenberg.

Time travels seem like a huge effort for little information to me...then I'd rather make something like look into the different times, if you need that at all. You sometimes don't need to know what happened to be able to do what you plan, and I think in this case it's one of those. It would basically change so little that it would be useless to do it, if you ask me...

This is as if you say that you'll use up 1000 GB worth, while you only need 1 MB to save the video.

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[quote name='Shadowseeker' post='33021' date='Jun 8 2009, 06:10 PM']Simply by perceiving something you can alter it...ever heard of quantums?

When you shoot them onto two openings, they don't choose one, they choose BOTH to go through. When you observe the single quantums however they don't do that anymore somehow, as if knowing you watch them.

Heisenberg.[/quote]

A bit of nitpicking: what you are describing is Young's experiment and it shows that light behaves as a wave. While Einstein noticed that light behaves as a particle when experimenting with photovoltaic emission. It was then that scientists noticed that light behaves both as a particle and as a wave. This duality lead to quantummechanics.

Traveling back in time is a big no however. The butterfly effect, the grandfather paradox... the practical how the heck would you do it? Why not keep to scrying and some detective work?

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Yeah, true to that...but Heisenberg described that in his theory, that's what I meant. I mean, that observing makes the wave function collapse, or so scientists think.

Quantum physics are pretty interesting, there's even some who claim our brains work that way.

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Alright i am gonna make this post about the way i imagine the priciples being use

Principle of Light and Transposition - used to reveal what bob was/his identity

Element Principle - The material that comprised the wood of bob, the earth and water. The ashes should also help with this, as well as the Transposition principle, because bob's identity lies within the ashes and surroundings.

Principle of Cyclicity - uses the Syntropy principle (syntropy is the phase of balance) and time to undo the oxidation (burning)

Principle of Balance - to ensure that the other systems arent too greatly affected by the returning of bob in tree form (a.k.a. ensuring that just the parts needed to go into forming bob are used and that other cycles arent thrown out of sync) Transposition is also used here to ensure that bob comes back as we remember him; his identity.

Time Principle - Used to make things appear out of sequence i.e. the return of bob, thus bypassing the actual amount of "time" needed for bob to grow to his original form; Transposition aids in this.

Principle of Imagination - all of this is bound by the principle of imagination. The source of energy for syntropy, as well as for picturing bob's identity. Edited by cryxus

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i know this is out of the topic, but how about we try to search for the philosopher's stone???i read long time ago that philosopher's stone can bring death to life, and if you'll use it quite some time u will be immortal.something like that is waht i read long time ago

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that's not correct... the stone is supposed to give endless life, not to revive the dead, which is a GREAT difference ^^

and it would most probably not speed the regrowth of the branches of bob... it could turn him into gold if he's got enough metal in his trunk, though LOL

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I will make a try:

The branch is like one of his arms, but also a part of plant. So every plant may recover itself even iy cut with:

Time:
I guess time will heal all wounds, and for Bob time doesn´t matter at all. He might be old, ancient or maybe just a sapling in his tree-age. But if his wounds are healed, time is a important key of a tree.

Syntrophy:
The ashes from Bob will give a very good fertilizer, you know, from ashes to ashes, from ashes to tree. Bob will be part of his self, for eternity.

Cyclicity:
Every beeing has to died, otherwise there will be not space and not "fertilizer" for another ones. Like Bob´s branch is broken, there no might be enough space for 2 new branches, even if they are smaller as the beginning.

Imagination:
Believe of Bob´s "incarnation", without believe, this is only a tree - but if you have faith then call him Bob! This is like the spiritual energy for the recovery.


Balance:
Even Bob will be balancing something in this world, his pain is someone elses pleasure and vice versa.

Spells:
I guess a spell might call him, but if he response...?!

So all together there should be a bunch of believe and positive energy into the branch, fertilized with his own ashes, and then given an protected while aging. And if you if this branch comes back to life again, you might have a clue...

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Great idea with the time travel, but a little over-complicated perhaps in this instance. Lets veer off that one for the moment, maybe we can discuss that as a concept somewhere, make a new thread for it, seems like an interesting discussion topic - but I’m not on board with it as an action for this quest. Same thing with Philosopher’s stone – I like how you think outside the Box Eigger :D

It looks like a lot of you feel that we should be burying the ashes in order for Bob to absorb them up again – is that what you all want to do? Or do you want to create this “paste”? or...both?

If imagination is a key to the final shape and structure, then we need to have a unified ideal of the look of the branch, so I will need people to agree on the look please. Just a little comment for those who may understand it....something is always easier to imagine when it is right in front of you....

It also appears to be important we work out the “identity” both of Bob and of the damage. Comments please?

If energy consumption is important and balance is important...how do you think we accommodate this in our actions?

Now I never said it had to happen fast...so accelerating time is not necessarily important, Time exists and doesn’t anyway....but do we feel we want speed? If so that’s a whole new ball game and we need to have a discussion about the meaning of time and how to use and abuse it.

Has it crossed anyone’s mind as to who we might have aide us? Who in the realm could offer us advice? And also...the fact that some people arn’t going to want to allow this to happen?

Storm makes an interesting point in the use of Transposition....

And I will say this again as no one has mentioned it.... Consider the use of a person with an appropriate aura in relation to the element principle.

Z

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[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' post='33214' date='Jun 11 2009, 12:33 PM']It looks like a lot of you feel that we should be burying the ashes in order for Bob to absorb them up again – is that what you all want to do? Or do you want to create this “paste”? or...both?[/quote]

Relying on the regeneration abilities of Tree seems to be the safest method. And also the one that is the least work. The ashes + some fertilizer to make up for what has been lost (heath, smoke) + time => new branches.

Which makes the question: what result do we want? To restore Tree to have the same amount of branches and leaves? Or to the exact form right before the branch was cut off? To what he would be now if the branch was never cut? To an even bigger tree?

The first option is the easiest one, but the scar would remain. The second removes the scar but also recent events, I would call that a bad deal. I am guessing most people would aim for the third option, but Kaf would say scars build character and strive to have a bigger and better Tree. If necessary he'd talk to and feed him cookies for days, until he's big enough to uproot the nearest gazeebo.


As for the element principle: "There are many ways in which one can classify the consequence of every action or every personality. If we were to separate the world in basic elements, we [u]could[/u] say that there are four fundamental elements:"
The way I understand that, there are other options to classify elements. One such option is the Chinese 5 element system, which has wood as an element.
"Wood feeds fire" and "Metal chops wood" - what happened
"Water nourishes wood" and "Wood parts earth" - one of the proposed courses of action

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Yeah, chinese elements are a good way to put it, seeing as they describe certain energies. No, I also think he means Amoran. She is a dryad and as such naturally connected to trees, though not Bob specifically.

[img]http://imspeakingtruth.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/tree_branch_and_seed_img_0807.jpg[/img]

That's how I'd depict the branch to look like, and we also need Z's memory of how it used to be. Edited by Shadowseeker

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i think i answered most of those problems in my post... and mine is definitely through tremendous arcane effort. As far as help i think people are overlooking someone... oh well, i s'pose technicly im not eligible, i just feel inclined to make sense of the use of principles in magic...

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[quote name='cryxus' post='33271' date='Jun 12 2009, 03:03 AM']i think i answered most of those problems in my post... and mine is definitely through tremendous arcane effort. As far as help i think people are overlooking someone... oh well, i s'pose technicly im not eligible, i just feel inclined to make sense of the use of principles in magic...[/quote]


Sorry Cryx, your thought process on principles is interesting but I have to tell you, you haven't answered nearly half of what needs to be discussed. As per my having to ask a load more questions of everyone. So far, overall including information that isnt in this thread- the best, most thought through answers have come from ShadowSeeker.

"Technically elidgible"....as I said right at the start: It really depends on how much you put in as to how much you get out. In honesty, this quest is more for people who like to analyse, and enjoy roleplay. It isn't designed for those who work on Carrot and Horse ideals. Perhaps this is where it falls down in general...disappointingly enough.

Z

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[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' post='33214' date='Jun 11 2009, 12:33 PM']It looks like a lot of you feel that we should be burying the ashes in order for Bob to absorb them up again – is that what you all want to do? Or do you want to create this “paste”? or...both?[/quote]

It appears to me you have not answered that question yet Shadow :D And I thought it was the most immediate question.

As I've said before, Kaf's vote goes to using ashes and fertilizer and other catalysts (eg love (and) cookies). In fact if it were possible and no one stopped him he'd make Tree grow big enough to uproot the nearest gazebo.
Why?
1. it's totally in character.
2. It's hilarious and kinda awesome.
3. It will irritate Ledah to no end.

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Uh..think I did answer it, my idea is the paste...after all, I'm more for restoration instead of regeneration..

Ashes with the usage of cyclicity would mean it regrows, but that is something different from recreating it...thus the paste.

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[quote name='Shadowseeker' post='33590' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:31 AM']Uh..think I did answer it, my idea is the paste...after all, I'm more for restoration instead of regeneration..

Ashes with the usage of cyclicity would mean it regrows, but that is something different from recreating it...thus the paste.[/quote]

I concur with Shadowseeker. As well, issues of time manipulation seem overkill at best and unpredictably harmful at worst.

Before coming into this realm I lived as a druid, one who is inextricably entwined with trees - my leading principle is element, followed by imagination and balance - and now as a priestess of the CoE I have continuously offered blessings to Bob in every passing through the Path of Loneliness. As much as the physical mechanics of patching Bob up are important, I know that the spiritual matters are just as well.

Though my rituals have been private thus far, I will share what I do know of budding and grafting. If the break was not 'clean', then planing it to match a 30 degree angle of attachment would be in order. Also, if a T-shaped cut is made into the bark of the trunk, just barely larger then the size of the branch, then the small flap of bark will hold the branch snug and a 'whip and tongue' lash could then be wound around to bind the two.

I'm left to wonder, might there be a way for to siphon vitality from a donator into the broken branch? If it were possible, and directed towards the proximal end of the branch, then this would help it to regenerate. Edited by Phantom Orchid

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