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Kragel

Forced to not attack people you share land with ?!?

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the following are a few PMS shared between myself and someone else concerning a pact or agreement of some sort that some of the Loreroot alliances have with each other

i am keeping the names out to be fair here and ask that anyone who responds also do the same

there was a bit more said and some said in chat at GoE that has been pulled and saved incase it is needed later

please read the following and tell me how i am in the wrong for attacking someone everyone else in lore attacks me and i attack them in all the alliances

how does this differ ?...

ME - Why are you getting pissed cause i attacked you ?

Her - All I did was ask why you attacked me, I was looking at the land we are both with. You brought our friendship into this, I never wanted that.

ME - i simply answered you and then your stupid boyfrined started tossing insults at me and i tried to explain and will do so again i am not bound by rules for other alliances even in the same land when no one has respected me enough to even ask me if i want that kind of agreement honestly there are too damn few alliance members already anyone doing this agreement is killing their training and its silly

Her - If you wanted to train, you should have asked. I would have been more then happy to help. Even though you don't want to be a part of Lore, you still are. You have taken this too far.

ME - just because the rest of the lore alliances want to play like everywhere dojo for them does not make it so i have not taken anything anywhere i have done the same things i have done since i started you and lore are thinking you are better than everyone else with your high council and no attack rules with each other if mur made another new alliance in lore tomorrow would you bitch him out for attacking you also ?

Her - I don't think I am better then anyone else. It seems to me that you think you are better then everyone else, so you don't have to follow the rules.

ME - LOL what part of i was never told about these rules or ask if i wanted to be part of them DO YOU NOT SEE!!!!

Her - You know the rules. You are a member of Lore, doesn't matter if you don't want to be, you still are. There is nothing more.

ME - NO I DO NOT KNOW THE RULES AND UNTIL SOMEONE ASK ME ABOUT THEM AND IF I WANT TO BE PARTY TO THEM THEN IT DOES NOT EFFECT ME AT ALL !!!!! AND IS I DON'T SIGN ON TO THIS PACT OR TREATY OR WHAT EVER NAME IT HAS IT WILL NEVER EFFECT ME !!!!! YOU ARE NOT SHOWING ANY REASONING SKILLS AT ALL RIGHT NOW YOU SHOULD THINK A BIT BEFORE YOU RESPOND AGAIN


please keep the flaming to a minimum so we can get to the bottom of this asap

respectfully
Kragel
The Metal Mage

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He altered the first message he sent me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From: .Kragel. (ID:100657)
*sent 1 hour and 26 minutes ago  Read later
STUPID
pass this to your stupid boyfriend

.Kragel.: brady dont even think about calling be a jerk again grow up
Electric Funeral: a little too late don't you think.
.Kragel.: and luna there was no disrespect in the attack i used you want disrespect i can use regen attacks on people like some do thats disrespect

and if he wants to attack me with insults again every time i see him he will see regin rits

i dont know what i ever did to you for you to decide to cause me problems like this now but what ever if you want to screw with me then fine

My reply:
All I did was ask why you attacked...................(You know the rest)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Insults where said once, after Kragel had said everything else.

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as i said it was SOME of the convo I WAS TRYING TO KEEP NAMES OUT !!!

but you want to make it ugly you have shown your disrespect luna with your regin rits

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[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' post='31275' date='May 16 2009, 03:52 PM']If Kragel and his alliance hasn't agreed to anything, he and it arn't bound to anything. Plain and simple. No point in arguing about it.

Z[/quote]

Agreed.

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If your going to put messages up, put them up, don't alter them.

I did at first care about being attacked. But now I'm just sad.

I agree, there is nothing to fight about. The damage has already been done. Edited by LunarGoddess

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RE:RE:Luna
Kragel,

Thank you for sharing.

First off. It is overwhelmingly understood that LR matters _stay within LR_. What do you hope to gain by your post on MD forum? What do we all have to lose? This is precisely the type of issue that we have elected representatives for to deal with. Splattering such an inflammatory conversation between Lorerootians onto MD forums will only cast a darker shadow on all of us. We have enough of that!

I am left to wonder, does your spirit reside within the land of Loreroot? Does it comingle with the spirit of the land? Our ways are of challenging each other, yes, but also of being united and of pure intentions in those regards. You have both expressed that friendship is the most important issue here, and hopefully from there a common ground might be shared. That's the crux of it, it's not so much a matter of a few un/warranted attacks. However, it is widely known that LR alliance members do not attack each other unless it is for voluntary training purposes. Mistakes happen though.

*takes off her mediator cap*

I must say, speaking as a priestess of the CoE, I must urge you that this kind of treatment and disrespect of our holy Sibyl is unconscionable.

Yours in honor,
Phantom Orchid


OMFG

are you serious

this is exactly why i dont want to be tied to any land that thinks it is above the rest of MD

this is why I have ask for everyone to notice no matter what land i am in i am NEUTRAL !!!!

this is why i have also ask to be moved out of LR

and this kind of holier than everyone in the whole damn game is why LR has had some many problems .....


i have huge respect for some people in LR dont get me wrong

but this is silly no this is plain stupid ....

you have the gall to ask me: I am left to wonder, does your spirit reside within the land of Loreroot? Does it comingle with the spirit of the land?


what part of i turned down being on council and turned down voting on the political stuff does not tell you MY spirit resides in ME !!! my heart beats in my chest and no i may love the land of lore root but i do not love the people who think they can force everyone to follow rules that are not part of the game ...


the people in Lore root who i respect need not even ask because they know how i feel

the ones who wish to control things and try to force others to follow oaths that they took need to get over themselves ....


wow you people just boggle the mind ...

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[quote name='LunarGoddess' post='31278' date='May 16 2009, 11:59 PM']I agree, there is nothing to fight about. The damage has already been done.[/quote]

My point was more there was no point in arguing the matter with him in the first place. It is his alliance to do with as he chooses, he has said categorically on many ocassions that he is Neutral no matter his land tag. I find it asinine anyone would be arguing with him over this.

Z

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[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' post='31280' date='May 16 2009, 04:22 PM']My point was more there was no point in arguing the matter with him in the first place. It is his alliance to do with as he chooses, he has said categorically on many ocassions that he is Neutral no matter his land tag. I find it asinine anyone would be arguing with him over this.

Z[/quote]

I simply asked him why he attacked me. Then he went off. At the time I did not know he was neutral. I know that now.

I never wanted an argument. I never wanted any of this. I still don't want any of this. What's done is done. There is no reason to continue.

He showed disrespect, not by attacking me, but by what he said after. There is nothing more.

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[quote name='LunarGoddess' post='31283' date='May 16 2009, 06:32 PM']I simply asked him why he attacked me. Then he went off. At the time I did not know he was neutral. I know that now.

I never wanted an argument. I never wanted any of this. I still don't want any of this. What's done is done. There is no reason to continue.

He showed disrespect, not by attacking me, but by what he said after. There is nothing more.[/quote]



all i said ... and i have the chat logs to prove it .... was an explanation of why i did not know you thought you should not be attacked we have always attacked each other but now because you are some Sibel or what ever and people are praying to you i have to ask you permission to do a simple attack when we ARE NOT IN A DOJO?!?!? THIS IS INSANE

YOU AND YOUR TWIT BF HAVE SHOWN DISRESPECT TO ALL OF MD WITH THIS

if you did not want to make thing worse you would have kept it private and not had me getting pms from other members of your alliance ... and you would have told your twit bf to stop arguing

and you not knowing i am neutral ... is no different than me not knowing about your stupid pact

if you want to make peace then you talk to me you dont have others pming me and you dont accuse me of disrespecting you when you and brady repeatedly have disrespected me since this started

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I asked why you attacked me because we are both Lore. But at the time I did not know you wished to remain neutral. Now I know this. I gave the messages to friends, because they saw that something was bothering me, they wanted to help. So I told them. I never intended to get the CoE involved, I never brought my position of Sibyl into this. I still don't want the CoE involved, there is no reason for that. There is nothing wrong with you attacking me, I see that now. The things you said where very disrespectful, not because I am Sibyl, but because I am a person.

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Please, please, please: peace, my friends. This is a misunderstanding.

Kragel, my brother, the idea of Loreroot alliances asking permission to attack each other is an old one, but hazy and never adequately explained, let alone enforced. It was not clear whether, for example, Willow's Shop was an exception. This tradition goes back to RPCs who are long gone, and the Savelites were never properly informed, and so on.

When I swear in members to the Eclipse, I inform them that, as a matter of courtesy, [b]we[/b] do not attack members of other Loreroot Alliances without first asking. This tradition is by now utterly pointless, as fight balance no longer helps (and, in fact, most skilled fighters now skew themselves heavily to losses). Luna has been with us a long time, however, and remembers some of the old traditions. They were never laws, so, respectfully, I submit to you that no one has ever been 'forced' to do or not to do anything.

Finally, to reiterate, I have tried very hard to acknowledge your neutral stance in Loreroot, and to offer you participation in our inter-alliance cooperation... but not to require it, as I honour your intentions.

Luna, beloved Sibyl, I thank you for your acknowledgement of the miscommunication. I know some of those who love you are calling for Kragel's head on a platter, but I believe you do not want that.

To my fellows among the Eclipse: I honour your show of support for our true leader, and thank you. We are no democracy; and we of the knights will always close ranks behind our priestesses, right or wrong, blunt or courteous, for better or worse.

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I have posted the conversation below. Judge for yourselves whether anyone is being disrespectful.

I have taken those comments not relevant out of the chat, and everything else is exactly how it was said.

Conversation


I regret having to post this, but I had a request to, and I felt this would help clear things up if this thing is ever going to end.
I am still receiving complaints over communications concerning this, so I suggest that people just calm down a little.

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Yes, during that time it was the disrespect of attacking another member of Lore. At that time I did not know his wishes to remain neutral. The disrespect I was referring to this whole time, was afterwards. But Kragel and I have spoken through pm's, I have come to realize that no disrespect was meant on his part. I have apologized for my lack of knowledge pertaining to his desired land affiliation.


On a side note, I want to thank the CoE for wanting to help. Though I did not require the help of CoE for this matter, I am still very touched that everyone, my friends, wanted to help. *smiles* Thank you. Edited by LunarGoddess

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Kragel ol' pal,

Please forgive me. What I took for the excitement of roleplay, an 'attack' against our Sibyl, was obviously nothing more than an interpersonal conflict. *sigh* . Perhaps we should have more relationship counselors in this realm!

Oh well, I'm sure I'll see action soon enough... :blink:

No hard feelings, eh?


Poe.

p.s. I hope that you all will work this out.

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P O just try to be a bit less zealous while finding the truth in matters before you say something



K... Edited by Kragel

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Okay, I have no idea what happened- I'm not going to read the post above... but since when did the 'Historic Documents' section of the public Loreroot forum become a place to not only bash Loreroot but whine about stuff that isn't fair or may or may not be 'right' in your opinion?

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*wants to throw out an idea he's been having for a long time now, but which never fitted the time since we royaly screwed the lore-treaty^^*

what is the point of non-combat pacts?
to have creatures alive for training purposes?
to show hat your role is honorable enough to be bound to a treaty?

if former, it's pointless, every lost battle is more training than a won battle can ever be (unless maybe when you get bashed by a drachorn with 40k attack, that is ;-))

if latter, it's pointless too, because a RP-valueable treaty can only be about something RP-worthy, and getting some nice little combat experience is exactly NOT RP(at least in the eyes of most RPers... which i am not judging about, of course)

and if you now come and say 'but...but....but... if i get wiped by my friends, that's totally an RP thing', then face one fact: In MD, you don't die from being killed!!! not even your creatures die from being killed!!
if you want some easy fighting, create rituals that are good when playing on low vit, every jerk can win with 10k per critter, only the best win with 400 per creature ;-)

*idea over, some more thoughts to the actual problem*

it's nothing new that the lores are really picky on their non-attack policies, and hope to push through that nobody who's stronger than them could attack them at all, while they'd themselves love to pick on weaklings...

i have had enough cases (when the GG-LR treaty was still running) that people who were NOT part of the treaty, like CoEs or Savels, told me off for attacking them, with a convo like the one kragel posted in it's aftermaths, while THEY themselves where constantly preying on weaker members of GG...

i can see that it's easier to fight people who are weaker than yourself, the chances of getting killed are a lot slimmer, but that's exactly NOT the sense of a treaty... it's in place to protect the weak, the strong can easily protect themselves ( if they want to be protected, that is, giving away wins is a much nicer thing to do imo^^)

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[quote name='Amoran Kalamanira Kol' post='31295' date='May 16 2009, 09:57 PM']Okay, [b]I have no idea what happened[/b]- [i]I'm not going to read the post above.[/i].. but since when did the 'Historic Documents' section of the public Loreroot forum become a place to not only bash Loreroot but [u][i][b]whine[/b][/i][/u] about stuff that isn't fair or may or may not be 'right' in [b]your opinion?[/b][/quote]


hmmm you know what you are right... [spoiler]the "queen " of LR does not even have a right to "whine" about anything she is too good to read[/spoiler]

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Okay, okay! Stop it guys! Can we not not stop this fighting? The miscommunication problem has been cleared, so let's just close the topic and stop all this, ok?

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[quote name='Burns' post='31299' date='May 17 2009, 01:52 AM']what is the point of non-combat pacts?[/quote]
Whatsoever point there once might have been is now gone. I never questioned it, for whatever reason; I was simply told not to attack fellow Loreroot alliances without permission, and agreed (since I really wanted to get the Eclipse started, and was eager to gain support), and was later told not to attack the members of Guerrilla Golemicarum because Loreroot had signed a non-aggression treaty. And I tried to observe these rules for months before the Eclipse officially existed, though I was aware the observance of the treaty was uneven, to be charitable, as much on the Loreroot side as the Guerrilla Golemicarum... if not more.

For the record, I disciplined a member of the CoE for having violated the treaty with GG - twice. His punishment, as decreed by Shadowseeker, was a blessing in disguise, though the fellow in question certainly felt the weight of it at the time.

Anyway, interesting point, and it is a shame tempers ran so high on a matter that is in fact so trivial. Edited by Tarquinus

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