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Shadow(mcvities)

Repeat offenders that do not get punished!

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I hate the way that some players are not punished when they are repeat offenders! These people include MP6's, Ledah, lordknuckles ect. though i must say Lordknuckles has stopped disrespecting the honoured rules, which is good. Though it should take time to completely redeem himself.
(also first post I have done YAY! :good: )

:nea:

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Calyx is supposed to have the tools to deal with these offenders, i would like to see her actually use them in such a manner...

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I agree. It's irritating. I just got attacked twice in a row at the dojo today by someone... *cough" Eribus (I do PM the offenders to let them know what they did and what the Marble Dale Park dojo is.)

However mistakes happen. I've done a few myself. (I did always PM to apologize, and I now go through a mental check list before I attack by asking myself: Am I at the dojo? Is the player on idle? Does the other person has at least 7 heads? ...)

It would be nice if the game does something similar to that in the sanctuary, but with a little twist: A picture automatically pops up for the first 3 times when he/she arrives at the dojo to explain the rule.

How about that? ^_^

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have you ever thought that some don't respect it on purpose?

Ledah, for example, does that becasue of some rebellion-thingy [you know, teenies...^^], MP6 don't have that much choice and have to take the wins they can get...

i agree that the dojo should be a place of safety, like the thing Calyx made it to be, but hey, you have no troubles with MOST players in there...

can't you just be satisfied with what you've already got for once?
the world doesn't fall apart because someone takes your def out... after all, you have enough players there on which you can reset them...

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[quote name='Burns' post='26455' date='Mar 6 2009, 11:18 AM']have you ever thought that some don't respect it on purpose?

Ledah, for example, does that becasue of some rebellion-thingy [you know, teenies...^^], MP6 don't have that much choice and have to take the wins they can get...

i agree that the dojo should be a place of safety, like the thing Calyx made it to be, but hey, you have no troubles with MOST players in there...

can't you just be satisfied with what you've already got for once?
the world doesn't fall apart because someone takes your def out... after all, you have enough players there on which you can reset them...[/quote]

I've suspected some don't follow the rule on purpose. If there's something that can be done, that's not a programming nightmare, and that could minimize simple ignorance, then why not do that? Certainly it only applies to MP3.

As for not having a choice for players with higher mind powers, how's that so? Even as MP3, there're times when it's difficult to find people to attack or train with. Also, Willow Shop is only a button away. There're plenty to attack. Isn't that enough? Couldn't MP6 be satisfied with that? Is it really that difficult to restrain oneself from the temptation?

As demonstrated by Burns & me, both arguments are reasoned with the same idea along the line of, "It's only a game after all. What's the big deal?!" One could justify how ever one wants. I just rather choose to making MD a more harmonious place where I spend some free time.

Surely if one insists on attacking disregarding the rules, it would reflect badly on one's own self. I think the idea of the original post is asking for a more tangible effect on people who choose to break the rules.

How about loose the ability to attack for 3 days if an offender has more than 3 complaints within a 7-day interval? Something like that. (Some people might even consider to incorporate this into their strategy. It would work well for the Head Contest. Who knows. But at least it won't go unnoticed.)

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You could help by posting 'Repeat Dojo Offender' in their player logs. This way we, the Dojo Staff, will have an easier time identifying them as offenders. As soon as HC is done with, I will try to help minimize these attacks as I can, and if possible, enforce those rules on the offenders, INCLUDING those who choose to ignore me completey (*cough waryono cough cough*)

If a player chooses to ignore the rules, or ignore your attempts to explain them, please contact a staff member and let them know the situation as well as the names. If it was MP5 and higher, detailed information is needed by Calyx's orders.

*needs to remember to ask Calyx about putting the Dojo forum on the sign post....*

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besides there are supposed to be people to handle these kinds of things, perhaps if you cant spur them into action a new type of forum thread should be created? just a thought :)

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First... On many occasions since creating the Dojo I have publicly stated that I do not want the dojo to be 100% safe. People value what they have to work for, what they have to defend. Something that is totally free is not valued in the same way.

This said I do want the dojo to be safer and less chaotic than it is. I have long anticipated nihilistic response to the dojo. I do not intend to let the dojo to be torn apart simply because some have the need to rebel or destroy established things. The real problem has been having the right tools in the right hands,

I do dreams several times a week in which I haul in all the repeat offenders and try to talk to each of them individually. In the past I have had a high success rate with this. However, if you know how many repeat offenders there are and only one of me, you will know that this is totally out of hand.

The dojo [b]IS[/b] being relocated and we will be able to both eject people from the dojo and ban people from entering. This comes a lot close to what would happen in the real world. Much as I am tempted to ask for the ability for long term banning, being able to ban people for periods from 3 hours to 3 days may be adequate.

Mistakes and a certain amount of rebelliousness will be tolerated for short periods, but anyone who makes it a way of life will have problems with me and my staff.

In the last few days I have had an email from Mur about this and discussed it with him directly earlier today. I do not know exactly what he will do, but I strongly believe we will have much better tools by the end of the festival.

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Mur was talking about a jail scene with real corridors and jail cells. Don't know if he was serious but Cryxus incited a brawl at Willows Pub to get all of us a "tour". Didn't work though. WHEW! You can only get out with Mur! OOOO gives me the Murbi Geebees!

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[center]my inciteful attitude worked sage ^_^ we all got a tour :D .... thanks again Mur


~Cryxus~[/center]

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the sensible solution to someone doing havoc as part of the role play
is a solution also based on role play

just put repeat offenders on a bounty list
anyone on the list will be open to attack from any mp level
on any place in the realm even on sanctuaries
and will be handicapped on all fights

bounty hunters who succeeds in killing off a wanted player's ritual gets reward
player gets off the list after a month of no offense

relocating the dojo or making a separate dojo
is just admitting defeat and capitulating to repeat offenders' desire to inflict chaos
players who flaunt dojo rules have the desire to act out anti-social behavior
which they are constrained to do in RL

seeing as MD aims to be an immersive RPG, i'd hate to see lawbreakers being limited
or even prevented from breaking laws
after all, what if the role i want to play is as the most wanted man in MD?
knowing there are laws and punishment for them makes deterrence possible
but also gives thrills and a sense of purpose to those flaunting them
stacking the deck against offenders makes it so that offenders do get punished if caught

to prevent "ignorance of the law" excuses
make it so that prompts appear when attacking in dojo
informing attacker that attacking in dojo is prohibited unless consent is given

also, i can't see why attacks without consent can't be prevented from the game script
as it is now, players can't attack players who have no creatures or no creatures alive
a similar code in dojo can be scripted so that players being attacked will be prompted
and if they consent, script preventing attack will be turned off
it can also be coded so that players who go idle will have the script preventing attack automatically turned off
same with those carrying heads

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You seem to have missed the threat dealing with all those issues...

The codework would be horrible, and totally unneccesary, as you said, breaking laws can be a part of the game, too^^

delaying the dojo to another place will help a lot with players who fight at willow's (if we ever return to that place, GoE is popular currently), and bounty hunting would mess the game for most players...
there are a few people in here who love the kill, and if bashing mp3-4 got openly rewarded, those poor fellows disobeying the dojo wouldn't even get time to take a deep breath before they die again *hehe*

the no creatures thing is basic combat mechanics, if a random rit can't find any mobs, you can't fight, as simple as that, and scripts with buttons and stuff were discussed and discarded

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[quote name='Burns' post='29288' date='Apr 24 2009, 03:35 AM']You seem to have missed the threat dealing with all those issues...

The codework would be horrible, and totally unneccesary, as you said, breaking laws can be a part of the game, too^^[/quote]

well, i'm not a programmer, so i'll trust this issue with those who know
and yeah, breaking laws can be part of the game

[quote name='Burns']bounty hunting would mess the game for most players...[/quote]
in what way?

[quote name='Burns']there are a few people in here who love the kill, and if bashing mp3-4 got openly rewarded, those poor fellows disobeying the dojo wouldn't even get time to take a deep breath before they die again *hehe*[/quote]
exactly. which would hopefully mean offenders would drastically decrease
if not gone forever as they wouldn't last long in the game to even regen
without sanctuaries and with everyone able to attack them plus handicapped

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i don't think you'd scare away a player
that insists on flaunting the law even when warned

what that would do though is DETER them
not scare them away

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imagine you had a personal clinch with someone who uses the dojo, then kill him/her in there two times.
Your enemy gets the message of multiple offenders and activates bounty-hunt for you, for three days officially plus another two til she remembers taking you off the list.
And now imagine there is a reward for kicking your ass, let's say nothing special, just a medal 'bounty-killer' or something...

About 30 people would go jumping on you all day long, and you would have not the slightest chance of surviving, not when some mp5 really want to kill you, your vit would be down to 0 for all the time you are 'wanted' and you would have no chance of gettign a proper fight, and if you tried to roleplay during that time, you'd even be flamed in chat (yes, we are that evil to dojo-offenders *hehe*)

and now say that happens to you twice or even three times, maybe just out of accident, Calyx has a 'no mercy' policy on repeated offenders, and your bounty hunt will go longer, maybe two weeks, and if you then go and insult her, she'll most probably increase it to a fortnight plus three days prison or something...

that'd make two and a half weeks off non-gaming for you, and i know a lot of people who would leave straight away under such circumstances...
Or we might even get a itsy-bit more evil and give you xp in our attacks, then you'd cap out with useless monster-xp on useless creatures and have no chance of surviving any battle in a very long time...

that would definitely stop players from offending multiple times because because they'd quit -.-

oh, and another idea: even though i respect the dojo and like Calyx, i'd definitely start offending the dojo if that got implemented, i want to be bounty-hunted^^

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[quote name='Burns' post='29322' date='Apr 24 2009, 03:39 PM']that would definitely stop players from offending multiple times because because they'd quit -.-[/quote]

again, i don't think they'd quit. anyone foolish enough to persist when he knows punishment is severe is clearly ready to suffer any punishment that may be meted out.

and there could be safeguards so that players can get off the list via a public apology and a promise never to do the offense again. of course if the promise is broken, then there you go, we can be evil and give them xp for them to cap out

[quote name='Burns']oh, and another idea: even though i respect the dojo and like Calyx, i'd definitely start offending the dojo if that got implemented, i want to be bounty-hunted^^[/quote]

well, there you go.

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Harion, what the guys didn't tell you is that the dojo will not have a "code" support. It's a social movement started long time ago by Calyx and we have to deal with it as it is (without poping up messages or things like that).

I for example have nothing against the dojo for mp3 and mp4 but when it comes to mp5 things change. I don't support the dojo for mp5. So I used to break the rules (not anymore cause I don't play as much as I did) but I know how to do it and not get caught.

And as Burns said: if there will ever be a tag like bounty-hunted I want one too :P

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And don't forget that Dojo is in one SINGLE place, Marble Dale Park. That's the only one.So i really hope that you won;t get punished for attacking in other place.

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Uhhh... I think the dojo people won't agree since they're doing *counts* 3 places instead of just one, respectively the road of battles and the defensive quarters as well.

EDIT: [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=3422"]Link[/url] to where conformation of this can be found (sure it can be found in other places as well) Edited by lightsage
Added link

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[quote name='dst' post='29326' date='Apr 24 2009, 04:54 PM']Harion, what the guys didn't tell you is that the dojo will not have a "code" support. It's a social movement started long time ago by Calyx and we have to deal with it as it is (without poping up messages or things like that).[/quote]

i realize that already before. that the dojo functions more on a social agreement made by the players.
but how do you think laws evolved in the 1st place?
social agreements are bound into writing
and enforcement is bound along with it

[quote name='dst']And as Burns said: if there will ever be a tag like bounty-hunted I want one too :P[/quote]

yeah, i want one as well
only a tag that says: most wanted man that has never been caught
imagine the legends that can grow out of it!

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[quote name='Harion' post='29352' date='Apr 24 2009, 09:35 PM']i realize that already before. that the dojo functions more on a social agreement made by the players.
but how do you think laws evolved in the 1st place?
social agreements are bound into writing
and enforcement is bound along with it[/quote]

yes enforcement came along, thats police, in our case dojo staff/lhos, and that idea which you propose, that it gets limitations by coding would be more or less equal as in real life when you do something bad lighting from sky hits you, thats too much unreal

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