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Roles, roleplaying ect.


Vaul

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Greetings everyone, I'm quite new here so pardon me if I ask annoying questions, we all start green don't we? :blink:

My question is about the "roles". Obviously this involves creating a fictional identity for your account. My interest is how exactly does one manifest this identity ingame?

I myself have written a story about my character, Vaul, in form of the "comments on self" document. In accordance with this, I have chosen certain story options as well as magic principles that would coincide with my character, to that extent as it is possible given the game "limitations", or should I say "given oprions". I rarely get involved with a lot of chating on locations, but as I said, I'm very new to the game, I have no doubt that I will develop certain relationships with gamers over time...

But is a statement on one's identity (and progressing through the story and building up the stats in accordance with it) enough, or is the "playing" part crucial? By "playing" I mean mainly the chat, as I see little alternative for inter-player interaction, short of battle.

I don't have to say how this chating is conducted, it involves the : : and the "blabla" in between, and I have found that most players have fun with this in ways that are hardly in accordance with any profile that could exist in the MD world, such as it is. For example: "hi everyone :sits down, has an ale:" ... "you'll pay for your treachery! :fries your head with lightning from eyes:"
The first one I can cooperate with, but the second one (which is clearly quite prevalent with a vast majority of players) is absurd, given the nature of the fictional world we're all in (lightning from one's eyes? I think not).

I apologize for the length of my post, I rarely express myself in few words. But given all the things I have said here, is involving with this kind of chat crucial to roleplay in this game, and is the chat important AT ALL to that effect?

Thank you for your patience

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every role needs a goal, without goal there isnt role, role without goal is just a story or an useless identity or biography or call it as you wish, but it isnt a real role

you can write into your story anything you wish, but that story needs to have a goal and it needs to be connected with this game, you cant write in it that you are a taxi driver or something like that lol

in this story you describe your identity, so when you role play, if in your story you are hmmm lets say a guardian of something then you cant go against it, lets say if you are in story dedicated to guard paper cabin then you cant get out there and in chat write something like this: *takes torch and burns down paper cabin*

in short: you need to behave in chat just like you described in your papers and you need to do everything that helps to achieve your goal, for example if someone cames with torch and you are guarding paper cabin you need to attack him, i think you get it

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[quote name='Liberty4life' post='17657' date='Oct 2 2008, 06:29 PM']...[/quote]


Yes, that's all fine and dandy, but you haven't really answered my question :D

I was asking if the chat was necessary for acting one's role? I have written my role, and it is connected to the game (it's a long one, but it's easy reading :blink: ), but the role permits if I refrain from participating in the chat FREQUENTLY.

I'm asking this because, in my experience until now, the chat tends to have little if anything to do with the game itself. Sure, there is roleply sometimes, but mostly describing what one's doing (for example: *leaning back in chair* ) and then it proceeds to some kind of gibberish intelligible only to the participants of that singular "conversation". It has very little "role" in that "playing", if we understand each other.

I'll repeat my question: [b]Is the CHAT [u]absolutely necessary[/u] for acting one's role?[/b]

[quote name='Vaul' post='17660' date='Oct 2 2008, 07:02 PM']I'll repeat my question: [b]Is the CHAT [u]absolutely necessary[/u] for acting one's role?[/b][/quote]

Or is the description of the character (via the "comments on self" papers), and building up the account (principles, choices in story mode) in accordance with it enough?

I would also like to point out that my questions refer to the "official" gameplay, not the gameplay for my own pleasure. What do I mean by this - what must a player do to be noticed by the powers that be in this game, in terms of role playing? :)

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hmm i dont talk much in chat either, and still i am a pwr, chat can be vital and still it doesnt have to be, you can get noticed without chat, but not likely, this chat role play shows out some of your personal acts and behavior but it isnt needed to play a role, well you will need to talk from time to time in chat :blink: no matter do you like it or not

i think that lots of players will disagree with me that chat isnt that much important, well i think that how player acts in situations is more important than he acts in chat :D but well it depends from player to player or better said from role to role

i hope that i helped you this time

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You did, thank you :P I still hope to get a bit more feedback though...


And I have to say I already had a similar view on the matter as you, the chat maybe important, but not absolutely necessary...

I myself would very much like to get involved in the chat version of role playing, but I have to say that the chat "customs" that have already been established between old players is most discouraging for new players. It is very intimate, so to say; the players have a specific kind of communication, and this includes the themes as well as methods, and I can barely make sense of it most of the time. Take the capitol of Marind Bell for example, I have observed that the place is a big role-play spot for old players, and all of the time they seem to be engaged in some form of communication that is understood mostly between them, and I can guarantee as a new player that it is understood by none other :)

I realize that this isn't a question, I'm just commenting on the previous post :)

Thanks again

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you arent right, every new player has its own chance to participate in there and it isnt so hard to figure it out whats all about, just get out there and start talking non sense things XD i saw there lots of new players role playing there in chat

EDIT: i forget to better explain, participating in chat rp (role play) will get you noticed among other players much faster and will help you a lot to build relationships with others, so not participating in chat could take you to a longer path of getting noticed

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[quote name='Liberty4life' post='17684' date='Oct 2 2008, 08:28 PM']you arent right, every new player has its own chance to participate in there and it isnt so hard to figure it out whats all about, just get out there and start talking non sense things XD i saw there lots of new players role playing there in chat[/quote]

with respect, this is barely a minority... Earlier today, I witnessed a "game" of the "veterans" in the capitol, chatting... They were numbering candy bars or whatever... It was somewhat amusing, as the veterans are pretty ok people, which is obvious from the very beginning... But I also saw a lot of questions from new players... I have to say that few of them got answers, and few of those were scarcely informative...

I'm not objecting to how the people play the game, that's a private matter for every participant, but it is obvious to new players, including myself, that this chatting takes precedence over actual "communication", that being exchange of useful information (the only thing a new player is concerned about). That's my first point, my second is that of this chatting rarely anything can be characterized as "role-playing", as the only RP I've seen takes form in activity reports, for example :drinking an ale and collapsing off the chair: - this is ok if it is backed by actual role-playing conversation, but it just doesn't happen... Unless there actually are candy bars in the MD world?
I realize that nobody can put restrictions on how people communicate, and I'm certainly not saying anything even remotely affirmative to such a proposal, but surely you must agree on my first point - and that is that the chatting (that for some reason passes for RP here) is confusing and even intimidating to new players.

This is simply an observation on my part, I'm not really asking nor am I objecting to anything about all of this, just saying that new players are in a big disadvantage, come free roam mode.

This is becoming a discussion, I apologize if it puts the topic out of place.

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its a big minus to new player if he doesnt know how to use a big glowing button that says: "Live Help" :)

also maybe someone pmed this players to answer their questions, maybe they asked something that isnt allowed (answer could give out spoiler), there could be lots of reasons, it is rare to see that older player isnt helping new one, very very rare in this game :P

well talking about ale and other fun stuff :) at winds sanct you can very often see windspirit08 she is playing a role with her magic pub :) and thats way lots of fun non-sense staff is going on there

look it isnt just playing your own role, you will get in touch with others and participate in theirs roles/stories

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Ah yes, I would also like to say a few more things, regarding your post... :)

I watched closely the whole situation at the capitol, and those new players asked their questions for several times, and then they were no longer in the capitol... Who's to say that somebody didn't PM them, but I myself doubt it, at least for these cases that I saw today, during those few hours I was hanging around (trying to catch up with the "RP" :P )...

And secondly, I have clicked the live help button this morning, sent my question... It has still not been answered :)


I think these might be issues worth some "official" attention

That's all from me on this matter, thank you for baring with me :) See you ingame :)

Special thanks to Liberty

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hmmm very interesting.....
i think that this new guy maybe asked some of this questions that reveals spoilers, but then someone should warn him, also funny thing is that i once ran into a guy that didnt know how to read pm, ah lol, and he left before i had chance to explain

about live help button, yea sometimes it is very likely that some of lho gets idle and messages are still delivered to him (thats really a bug) an then when he gets back he got a LOT messages to replay to, similar thing happened to me, i sent a message via live help button when i was starting and i got replay next day

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Vaul:

You've pointed out something that sadly is not obvious to all of us. Some roleplay is clearly over the line, some is worthy, and yes at times (lately especially) some questions do seem to go unanswered. I agree with you, saying so does not make you shoot lightning from your eyes. I personally think that stinks. If you have a spell use it, if you don't..then you don't dude.

It is not 100% necessary to role play in chat. If you wish your character to be well known or "popular" it's a game you will have to play a bit.

I have recieved many PMs that I found intriguing. In fact, Liberty and I have done a bit of roleplay just in that sense before ever having met in person. Many people use their papers as a way to introduce the more interesting aspects of their charactar, sadly, not all persons read those papers. Another fun option is the forum. A lot of players have used the Local Lengends area to enhance their stories, or even describe the roleplayed events in game. I recommend Wyken Vanarils interactive thread. It's a wonderful idea, and I hope more people play that way.

I find roleplay in chat the most fun and "real"...simply because it is immeadiate response and reaction. I am not sure the Sanctuary is always the best place. A lot of good stuff gets lost when the chat moves too fast. It's often more fun to plot and plan in less busy spots, or happen across interesting bits on the way to elsewhere and react.

To those who are really seeking ingame questions and answers, I have to say I have had the same issue the few times I've used the LHO button. I recommend sending mail directly to a player who seems knowledgable. Most are happy to answer. I try to answer questions in chat when I see them, but as I've mentioned the business of some places makes those questions easily lost.

Another suggestion is to try the dojo. It is specifically designed to help new players learn the battle system, and acclimatize themselves to the game. The dojo is in Marble Dale Park (just inside the city gates, statue of a pretty lady), and there is always someone there keeping an eye out. Most players there will answer any questions that you might have.

The best way to answer a question is to find a knowledgable player. There are so many people here willing and happy to take you under their wing. A personal relationship of some sort will help you a lot more than a random question in chat. Hope this helped!

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I couldn't resist responding to this thread again :)

A bit more about the chat... I appreciate having fun, it bonds the players and creates an atmosphere which makes people want to play, entering the community etc... But I have to say that a system has been formed by the older players. A system of chatting that is specific and very hard to cope with, especially when you're new. I dare say to such an extent that people don't really want to participate. The "old guard" have their stories, their jokes, they seem to know each other's whereabouts at all times (as every second question is "where is XX?", and every second answer is "he's over at the paper house", or something similar), and I'm not going to repeat the quality of the "RP", which I think is very poor. But be that as it may - it is dominant, it is established, it is a system that new players must conform to, under threat of being ignored completely. Sure, you'll get an answer or to, a few reactions, if you're persistent with your comments - but if you don't play along with the current scene...you get the picture.

This is of course natural for games that form player communities, but unfortunately in this specific game the community has formed something that in my opinion hasn't to do much with the world we're all in, it has to do just with the community itself, and its specific details that are shared only by its relatively few participants.

I myself really don't want to participate in the chat - such as it is. I will have fun, and communicate, but my RP is unfortunately quite unwelcome in the current "system" of chatting. What am I supposed to do then?

I don't want to get on the bad side of anyone with this, but i think that this phenomena might be something worth looking into.

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give us a real example of this chat thats going on and to you seams not understandable so then i will see what the problem is and try to explain you some things

i think it is just because you yet dont know lots of players, you dont know what shorthand (like ve, vp, etc) means, and you are familiar with AL and other players stories and their behavior

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[quote name='Vaul' post='17734' date='Oct 3 2008, 02:40 AM']I myself really don't want to participate in the chat - such as it is. I will have fun, and communicate, but my RP is unfortunately quite unwelcome in the current "system" of chatting. What am I supposed to do then?

I don't want to get on the bad side of anyone with this, but i think that this phenomena might be something worth looking into.[/quote]

Keep at, it eventually more people akin to your style will come out of the wood work, any type of change people seek always starts with one person. Besides I'm positive there are many more than you realize who "RP" in your style. Either way set an example, and I doubt you'll get on the bad side of anyone--worth talking with.. Besides, whats the worst that can happen? Someone claiming to shoot you with lightning from their eyes..

Also of course the game is mainly community driven as there is still quite a lot of content missing from the game.. Eventually it gets to the point where your left with more or less no choice but to interact with the others and "RP" with them.. For awhile now I've speaking with a few others who agree we need to rectify the state of the madness which people pass for role playing. I've tossed the idea of teaching people basic "RP" etiquette, but that in its self may present even more problems..

It is getting rather disturbing the amount of people not getting help from the community as a whole but at the same time even since I just started playing there's been a massive influx of new players, and most of the "old guard" must be fed up of always helping with the same questions over and over again, as they have been around for quite some time and are not LHO for a reason..

There are many more areas in the world of magic duel with many other characters other than just those at Winds Sanctuary.

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[quote name='Liberty4life' post='17740' date='Oct 3 2008, 09:45 AM']give us a real example of this chat thats going on and to you seams not understandable so then i will see what the problem is and try to explain you some things

i think it is just because you yet dont know lots of players, you dont know what shorthand (like ve, vp, etc) means, and you are familiar with AL and other players stories and their behavior[/quote]

I've given a few examples, but that's not really the point. The point is that I it is very difficult for new players to catch up with the existing system, and that the system is such that I don't even want to catch up, you see? :)

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As you can see I'm new here too and I have to agree with Vaul, it's very difficult to anticipate for a new player.
Would be great if the older players just invited new players in and tell them what's going on inthere, even if they have to tell it over and over again.
I also think they could help new players get a role in the story by asking them what they are doing here and where they come from, so they can get their own role in the game.

It took me a while to find out you could see their story in the papers, didn't know it wasn't there to attack or something, so tell new players where to look for it, it will help them to get into the game.

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Sure that the :fries your head with lightning from eyes:" guy was playing a role? Some people(me as an example) use emotes in normal conversation just for fun. Ithink one problem(for you not for me I`m not here for rp) may be that only a few really play a role (after all rp is not mandatory , one of the reasons i`m not interested in playing rp here) so the chat is mainly a normal chat with some rp here and there.
And everyone can make an role as what he wants, i could play an god if i wanted that, though i won`t judge if thats good or bad for rp.
Concerning questions when i read the chat the game mechanic question normally get answered when someone is there at the moment who reads and write in the chat, though spoiler question naturally not(like how you can beat the lore guards.) but that perception may be false. Or do you mean questions about roles and the story?


Btw i would consider the chat(or the forum) mandatory for rp, a story is just background information, rp means to act out the role and to do that you have to interact with someone and the only way of interaction here is text based(or atttacking people`but thats not the ideal way to expressing any character beside a massmurder).

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I couldn't resist looking at these forums again, nor posting in this topic. Sorry, sorry. I always have the need to express myself in a lengthy manner. Just take it as the input of an outsider who can give a different perspective.

The turn of development to roleplaying and the manner in which players responded to this was one of the major reasons I quit (the others being a lack of time and little incentive to stay). Like Vaul, and other players/ex-players I know who share these feelings, I appreciate the innovative roleplaying features but feel the majority of the roleplayers that are pulled in by the new focus do not "roleplay" in a manner which enhances the game. This new playing style created a shift in the community and more or less alienated me.

Nowadays, you are expected to roleplay in MD. Even if you have the right to not do so (but it's not like there's much else to do than roleplay at this point), there is pressure from the community. This pressure arises from expectation that you roleplay.. after all, MD is probably played by its mainstream players for roleplaying features more than any other aspect now. There is such a great emphasis put on roleplaying now that casual conversation is replaced by asterisks or double-colons in the chat, and if you wish to achieve a high status in the game, you are expected to interact with the main body of players by roleplaying. The atmosphere is, believe it or not, much heavier than before serious roleplaying became mainstream. It's not that I dislike roleplaying itself. I've played roleplaying games all my life, and I even participated in hardcore roleplaying forums during early exposure to the internet. The people who have seen my posts know that occasionally I roleplayed on these very forums randomly, whenever given the chance (no, I don't mean that crummy narrative I wrote). It's a wonderful creative outlet, more interactive than writing a story because you must respond to others' actions impromptu. In actuality, almost everyone roleplays every once in a while, whenever they respond to a prompt in conversation unnaturally in order to achieve a specific image.

However! you feel much less enthusiastic when who you roleplay with frankly do not roleplay well (in a euphemism, do not match your roleplaying style). I'm sure many love the mainstream way (meaning, shallow characters and asterisks) of roleplaying, but those who disdain it are not likely to grow more attached to the game--and that's the tragic flaw of the roleplaying aspect of MD: either you lie within the majority and play happily, or you unhappily play with a community you don't fit in with. The majority power is huge. The momentum of the current trend will ensure that it progresses in the future as it attracts to the game those who like that trend. Also, the game supports the current trend by making nearly anyone who is serious in their roleplaying a PWR or RPC. Of course, because a large percent of roleplayers roleplay in a distasteful style (in the perspective of the minority), the majority of PWRS and RPCs also roleplay in a distateful style (disregarding rpcs of the "old age," in which the use of ingame roleplaying was rare). Sure, you can find a little clique of people like you, but that can only provide so much comfort. MD repulsed me in the same way I was repulsed by social networks like Myspace because of the main body associated to it.

Wellwellwell, I suppose that doesn't really say much, so now let me go on to condemn the current style of roleplaying. Btw, I encourage this community to create a thread which debates merits and turn-offs of different roleplaying styles and roleplay itself. Here is where I reach the topic at hand: I am a very conservative roleplayer (probably many times I considered myself roleplaying, others didn't think I was making more than light conversation) and I do not believe you must do anything extreme to develop a good role. In fact, doing otherwise would be what I call distasteful.

First things first, [b]no asterisks or double-colons or anything used to denote actions you want others to visualize by themselves[/b], except in light play. You cannot depend on explanations to characterize your role. You must communicate your personality through your words, or else the only thing you imprint in the mind of the other is third-person narration. Also, it ruins the atmosphere and credibility because you're demanding a person to work on your part, making them imagine rather than establishing things yourself. Honestly, if you're a good roleplayer, you don't need to magically make things happen with asterisks.

Second, you and your character should be nearly the same. No, I don't mean your character should have the same personality, values and physical attributes. It should be like another persona that is part of you.. so you should feel free to chat about real life things at one moment and switch to the persona in the next. It's kind of hard to communicate. My major point here is that roleplaying shouldn't be an obligation or something you [i]create[/i], it should be natural. When it's like that, the atmosphere isn't heavy. You aren't making others roleplay along with you out of politeness--because they should feel like it's you they're talking to. I don't know if I'm getting my message here across or not.. maybe someone who's known and chatted with me when I've done this (which was often enough anyway) will be able to say it better. Also, don't roleplay all the time, because it's annoying. Err, what I mean is, roleplay all you want, but don't try to make yourself roleplay all the time.

Oh, no third point. Anyway, the whole point being: you shouldn't have to participate in chat-roleplaying as it exists now to develop a good role--but most of the others don't feel like me (or they wouldn't be doing it >_>), thus I doubt you'll fare well if you don't follow them. See, I was on-topic.. lol. I guess my singular opinion is pretty useless then, huh? Okay then. Would it be bad for me to say that you might want to quit? ^^

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Glaistig, I couldn't have said it better myself. I agree completely, and while I see no alternative to the trend that has evolved and is deeply established in the MD community, I agree that it is a great shame and is in my opinion even damaging to what I think was the original concept...

Also, the MD creator has obviously put a lot of emphasis on the revolutinonary originality of the game... I am somewhat disappointed that the gamers did not take this burden on themselves as the creator did.

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Okayokay, I know that I'm being hypocritical posting on these forums when I criticized MD so and said I would try to break off completely when I quit, but I wanted to see the response, and then I found more things to express... >_>; And justsoyouknow, it's Lu's fault, because she made me look at the forums so I could see that one objectivity thread...

[quote name='Granos' post='17741' date='Oct 3 2008, 03:03 AM']It is getting rather disturbing the amount of people not getting help from the community as a whole but at the same time even since I just started playing there's been a massive influx of new players, and most of the "old guard" must be fed up of always helping with the same questions over and over again, as they have been around for quite some time and are not LHO for a reason..

There are many more areas in the world of magic duel with many other characters other than just those at Winds Sanctuary.[/quote]
For the LHO part, you only become LHO if you express your wish to become one.. otherwise, it's assumed you don't want the extra responsibility. Besides that, Jonn searches for people who he sees actively helping people, not just answering questions when it comes by their way. Sososo, that's why even veteran players who have comprehensive knowledge of how MD works aren't LHO. But they have a good chance to become one if they try.

Granos has a point here when he talks about there being many more characters than those at Winds Sanctuary, but nonetheless it remains that the majority of roleplayers roleplay in a similar manner. Similar enough for me, anyway, to categorize them as distasteful. Don't know about others, I'm a bit tough on roleplaying styles.

I also want to add on to my response about the topic at hand that, like Vaul has pointed out, the heavy atmosphere mentioned probably scares new players a bit. Even the ones who eventually, after they decide to develop a role, contribute to that atmosphere by roleplaying in the same style.. after all, when roleplaying is emphasized so much by the game itself, it's pretty much a duty to make a role. But if you were a new player and you saw all these other players roleplaying in such a manner, you would likely find it a bit oppressive at first. When would you decide to leap in? Roleplaying interaction between players does seem pretty close. I would assume that unless you've been roleplaying for a while (in this style) it would be a bit tough. And it's worse for those who right off dislike it. The roleplaying style I condone doesn't create such a serious mood, as I've said before.

I would also like to add that while I've been emphasizing asterisk-riddled style as the major form of roleplaying, I might be stretching it a tad bit.. I haven't been on MD for a while, except every so often to chat with old friends and see what's happening, so it's just an impression I have. In the meanwhile, I do know that many players don't adopt the new trend, and I know that many are also rpcs. But I'm not sure my vision is completely inaccurate, and I'm willing to bet even if it hasn't quite reached the level I've portrayed, it will soon enough. As I've said, it will attract players who do like roleplaying that way.

I guess all in all it was pretty inevitable. I was happy about the roleplaying features when they were first implemented, but if I had thought of it, it was almost certain that they would bring in those [s]evil[/s] roleplayers with the asterisks. Damnation!

Good luck, Vaul.

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Hmm as i understand it based on the posts in this thread, the problem is that people who prefer casual rp with talk about RL etc. and more serious rp players can`t really play together. For me rp is staying in character, don`t talk ooc and that means don`t talk about rl, don`t use ooc knowledge, your character only knows what he found out himself, if you know that that guy plans to kill you it doesn`t mean your character knows and btw. for me it`s an essantial part to describe the actions of your character(though when the actions include another character you can only say what you try to do and not just say * i chop his head off and bury him*) purely dialog driven rp would be to limiting though the dialog is important.
As you see i wouldn`t be able to play together with someone like Glaistig if i tried to rp since what we want from rp is different. If i tried to rp and someone talked about RL my character would probably think that the guy is a bit crazy.
To summarize it the concept of rp is to different than you can`t really play together. But i don`t know what to do, to solve that problem beside the two groups ignoring each other.

PS: Just to make it clear I don`t rp her, never tried never will. I just fight a bit and search for weaknesses in the system. I don`t really have a reason to talk about this topic but i have time^^

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yea glaistig has the point, i agree with that

you just wont see me writing something between asteriks and talking where chat is flooded with that kind of garbage, thats very rare to see me there, i just speak about the game, i never speak about rl, i speak about things thats are actual right now (AL) and what to do about it, etc, for me rp is doing something, decisions and acts in some situations, thats rp, chating isnt rp

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Only thing i dont like about roles is that if youre talking to someone in your role voice, and they dont know anything about roles, they think youre crazy. I ask people if theyve seen any rats anywhere, and they usually dont answer.

Has anyone here seen any rats lately? i need to kill so i can collect stuff for the next heads contest. Mainly tell me if theyre around marind bell, i cant much farther since i havent bought a certain type of armor yet.

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