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So, i have been looking around and talking to some people and aparently there are more principles hidden that the ones everyon knows.

And it is strange because some of this principles didnt exist before, but the poeple of this world kinda "created" them out of pure will (even if they wanted it or not)

And so im posting this here to see if you think you know other principles

SO FAR

PRINCIPLE OF LOVE

PRINCIPLE OF HATE

PRINCIPLE OF VOID

PRINCIPLE OF SPACE

Im looking for new principles or a description of the ones ive found, to add them to the game

Have u heard of anything that might be usefull???

Alche

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Love your ideas Bloodd, just exactly what I was thinking...

HEYYYYY That creation was going to be my role!!!!I am writing my role about that searching and learning th principles to discover a new one.....................Principle o f Creation................T_T sad

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Well, I think this is good idea.... BUT, guys, can I ask you something? Don't you think that we already have many principle that we can't handle? Example is Balance. Those principle will be good only when we will fully understand princiles that we already have.

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Agree with Paradigma. Before asking for new principles it's better to fully develop the existing, both in meaning and in game interaction.

Not all the roles you could think of have to be principle-related. Look at the RPC list: only a few of them have a strong bond with some principle. The best (in my likings, not in absolute) role is one that blends principles to create something new.

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principles should be things that govern wide areas not specific ones.

I read above, Chaos, Order, they seem right at the first view, but i am not sure if they dont collide with syntropy and entropy in a way. Also maybe to have a single principle combining the two, but i cant think of a name right now.

think that you dont invent principles, they ARE, so you try to better understand and it will all take shape in your mind. Its like an artist sees the artwork before its on paper and it just fills in the empty spots.

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True, it's tough to come up with ideas not already covered in the principles we have, especially since Manu put a lot of care into crafting them. We have to look for concepts in our own world that need representing. Here are a few suggestions:

Principle of Energy

- Opposite of Element Principle

- Real-world physics places these two as opposites yet connected, with matter turning into energy, and energy turning into matter (Perhaps these two principles could be subbordinate to the Principle of Balance)

- we could have four kinds of energy, one for each element (light/heat = fire, gravity/inertia = earth, motion = air, ? = water)

*EDIT water could be some sort of dissipation, since it slows down motion with viscosity, cools heat, and stops gravity with surface tension

Principle of Space

- Somehow opposite to the Principle of Time? I really have no clue where to go with this one. o_O (It may already be covered in Transposition, yet it seems to have so much more potential)

Principle of Relativity

- Like Einstein's? Again, I'm stumped.

Principle of the Soul

- Something to help explain life, emotion, and death. Also it could cover the nature of us, the visitors to the MagicDuel universe, and our effect on it.

Again, these are just suggestions. Feel free to edit/tinker/go wild with any of it :)

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In my opinion, creation and order sound too close to the principle of syntropy, while destruction and chaos sound close to the principle of entropy.

Anyway, if we want to go physics:

Principle of Dimensions

- It covers the existence of both time and space. Anyhow, most fantasy worlds don't treat "dimensions" the same way advanced physics does.

Principle of Mathematics

- Everything that can measured can be quantified, analyzed, interpolated, extrapolated, theorized, and applied. Now if there is a way to measure everything......

(This is related to the role I'm trying to create for myself.)

Principle of Perception

- Perception is truth. What you believe to be true may be false in the eyes of entities with more encompassing perception, but what you perceive is always your truth. How can you know that the theories you study in school are true if you've never tested it? How can you be sure that your memory has not been fabricated? How can you be sure that what you've not learned firsthand is real? How can you be sure that what you've learned firsthand is real?

- Since any given instant of perception cannot be aware of itself, no one knows the whole truth. What matters then is not the whole truth, but the different truths that we conjecture. If we can manipulate perceptions, we are essentially manipulating someone's "truth".

(Principle/Theory) of Inevitability

- Nothing is random. There are no coincidences. Free will is just an illusion. Everything that has happened or will happen has a predetermined course. Things only seem uncertain because no perception is able to reach down to the basest elements of events.

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principles should be things that govern wide areas not specific ones.

I read above, Chaos, Order, they seem right at the first view, but i am not sure if they dont collide with syntropy and entropy in a way. Also maybe to have a single principle combining the two, but i cant think of a name right now.

think that you dont invent principles, they ARE, so you try to better understand and it will all take shape in your mind. Its like an artist sees the artwork before its on paper and it just fills in the empty spots.

Chaos and Order to me look like Balance.

Principle of Perception

- Perception is truth. What you believe to be true may be false in the eyes of entities with more encompassing perception, but what you perceive is always your truth. How can you know that the theories you study in school are true if you've never tested it? How can you be sure that your memory has not been fabricated? How can you be sure that what you've not learned firsthand is real? How can you be sure that what you've learned firsthand is real?

- Since any given instant of perception cannot be aware of itself, no one knows the whole truth. What matters then is not the whole truth, but the different truths that we conjecture. If we can manipulate perceptions, we are essentially manipulating someone's "truth".

Thanks. That's what I thought of when I wrote it.

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The Principle of Causality:

This would relate loosely to cyclicity and maybe balance to a lesser degree, but would deal directly with specific cause and affect relationships rather than the many causalities necessary to form a pattern or cycle. There are many direction you could take this, but one idea is that, by altering what could be considered as the natural cause and affect, one could alter or avoid a consequence. For example, the fact that fire burns or that water drowns are casual relationships which could be avoided. Also, by evaluating causalities one could discern how an item or situation came to be. Basically, it could be a form of divination or forensics. By examining the body of a recently killed person or animal, you could determine the cause of death...

The thread starter suggested space. Perhaps the principles of energy and matter should also be considered. The principle of time already exists and the addition of space, energy, and matter would round out the rest of the components that make up our physical universe.

Other ideas I had were possibly the principles of harmony and/or discord. They could both relate to the principle of causality except with a focus on why or how an action relates to a reaction. It could obviously also be used to alter the relationship between two items, people, or events.

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Uncertainty principle

The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa.

--Heisenberg, uncertainty paper, 1927

Uncertainty principle: A principle of quantum mechanics (q.v.), according to which complete quantitative measurement of certain states and processes in terms of the usual space-time coordinates is impossible. Macroscopically negligible, the effect becomes of importance on the electronic scale. In particular, if simultaneous measurements of the position and the momentum of an electron are pressed beyond a certain degree of accuracy, it becomes impossible to increase the accuracy of either measurement except at the expense of a decrease in the accuracy of the other more exactly, if a is the uncertainty of the measurement of one of the coordinates of position of the electron and b is the uncertainty of the measurement of the corresponding component of momentum, the product ab (on principle) cannot be less than a certain constant h (namely Planck's constant, q.v.). On the basis that quantities in principle unobservable are not to be considered physically real, it is therefore held by quantum theorists that simultaneous ascription of an exact position and an exact momentum to an electron is memingless. This has been thought to have a bearing on, or to limit or modify the principle of determinism in physics.

Uncertainty is a fact of life. Uncertainty arises because of many reasons - incomplete knowledge about the reality, complexity, our limitation to predict future events, unforeseen major events etc.

Uncertainty surrounds every creature,every rock, every drop of rain, every spark of fire, it governs every single life, every single thread of dust, every single star,moon, sun. The more the uncertainty the higher the risks .The higher the risks the bigger the reward. Or not.Because it's uncertainty.

Uncertainty can be reduce by knowledge. Knowledge is power. Uncertainty is the thing that motivates one person or hinders the same person. It's one of the most powerful principles because it's a mixture of luck and knowledge.

In short it suggests that nobody shall never really know what is going on in the universe, much less control it. It asks the ear to bend to uncertainty, to negotiate with chance, not defiantly but with wit, grace and invention."

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It's nothing less than a Cosmogony. (Recreation (teoreticaly) of everything that exist)

exist IN MD (player minds included)

Newton tryed based on nr 7 Here is belived to be a Newton manuscript:

newton_manuscript416.jpg

Mur did the same (because the maximum MP is 7 I supose all the princiles are 14)

Principle of Cyclicity - Principle of Balance

Element Principle - Transposition Principle

Principle of Enthropy - Principle of Syntropy

Principle of Imagination - Time Principle

Darkness Principle - Principle of Light

If these are all the principles here we have a pentagram as visual

Pentagram-star.jpg

put the ten principles on the main points of that image

In each moment when a decision is taken we make this based on beliefs. We therefore use one principle but the same importance when you take one decision is that you reject all others except one.

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For me a principle that I believe in but is not listed is:

the Principle of Connection
-Almost everything is connected in some way, all of our actions affect others.
-People and things are all connected through time, and we are all made up at the simplest level of the same thing.
-Everything is effectively one, just different shapes, sizes, and masks.

and the opposite:

the Principle of Solitude
-Even though we are all connected, we are all alone.
-No one can ever fully understand the way our mind works, and therefore two people can never be fully one. We will always be alone, destined to live seperately.
-Through it all, one of the few things that remain constant in life is ourselves.

Awi

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Hello All...

Some of the principles overlap others, like time could go hand in hand with creation, destruction, perception.

Darkness could be destruction and creation could be light.

I liked the principles of Connection and Solitude but those coudl go hand in hand with Balance and cyclicity, and solitude is...Solitude can work..

But it would only be helpfull in the stronger forms of some principles like element, light, and...i guess that is it from what i can see.

Energy is principle of Element's fifth element possiblity, lol even void could be the fifth.

Space, or void could be a form of Darkness or even more likly a form of imagination. How can NOTHING actually exsist...Even though darkness says to not be mistaken for void or evil, it can still be these, all i see is it shouldn't be limited to these.

but only bits and pieces fall into each of these catagories. and with enough thought, things could fit into place.

Principle of Mathematics, with refining could be good, maybe Principle of Science perhaps.
*facts not thoughts.
*physical not phychological.
*it goes hand in hand with everything yet also tears them down.
(we are currently heading in this direction in real life)

How about the Principle of Principles
Er, maybe this is similar to Connection i don't know...
Its wide yet vague..Good-evil, truth-lying, Phylosophy like, or morality based...i don't know it has a wide connection...Opposites, simularities, pick a connection...

What about a Virus Principle
Destroy, create, kill, survive, spread. Somethign along the lines of Biological..????idk

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I think it depends on one's point of reference on what is Balanced or not and of what is the opposite of balance.

Ex. A anarchist would say Chaos is balanced, while a structured individual would say it was out of balance.

Balance is relative.

Awi

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[size=3]I read this thread with some interest...

And I tried to resist adding to it, as it has been inactive for months, but I couldn't help myself.

You missed one of the basic principles involved when you gather people together. Or even take one person on their own. I am speaking, of course, of Murphy's Law - the Principle of Perversity. That things happen, usually at the most inconvenient time, to derail all the most carefully well-laid plans. That not everything that happens is sensible, or logical, or even reasonable. That no matter what precautions you take, you cannot guard against the perversity in others - or in your own nature.

And it is nature...It is one of the things that makes us aware, and thus tends to get overlooked in the general mill of living, but it is fundamental to who we are - and how we think. It allows us to cope with the uncertainty all around us, and it encourages personification of itself as an outside force.

((Maxwell posited just such a demon, who, on a small scale, would have illogical, ridiculous control over impossibilities and unlikelihoods. I encourage you to look him up.))

I would note in passing that Perversity covers fully three-quarters of the logical results of combining principles actively.
Think about it. :) [/size]

Awi - Of course Balance is relative - it is also inevitable, and usually takes care of itself.

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Of course, an interesting idea I personally like myself...

But...can't you let the dead topics rest? I assume alche did this based on Mur's orders, but seeing as he left now I don't think anything is going to come out of it....unless someone new gets appointed to this task.

To have something that goes to this topic as well:
Principle of Fate/Destiny.

Whatever we do is already determined, so by actually using this principle one only fulfills that. Sounds weird? Perhaps. Is a lot like the inevitability idea sacosphilis had. Different however is that you need to act to fulfill it..if you had not fulfilled it you would have left your determined path, lost your track and leave the winds of chaos to destroy you.

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