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ok, im reading it, thinking of it and my brain is starting to hurt, its not easy to digest all the info all of u guys are posting, but im slowly doing it, so... i think i will do exacly that, get into the 7th pyramid and start imagining, really hard, i just hope my mind wont take a path of his own and take me to another place, a dark one...

also, tnx everyone in golemus who came to visit, im lonely there, the principles are not good chatters :)

if that doesnt work ill move the plan b (and c, and d, etc...)

keep up the good work.

alche

:lol:

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on a practical matter, if the idea about going into the seventh pyramid and imagining being in the top one works, presuming it works because he's in the imagination pyramid, how will he get down from the top pyramid? he cant imagine it in the same way because he's not in the same pyramid, jumping i presume would just end up killing him when he lands

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While planning is good, sometimes we get further by "winging it." :) Otherwise we may overthink the situation and make no progress. (I've done this >.>)

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I struggled a long time to place the 6 principles represented with the six pyramids in the circle, and you may be right about time and transposition not being opposites: I disagree. light and darkness, and entropy and syntropy are rather obvious. but you must carefully read the transposition and time principles to see how they are quite opposite in relation to each other. not to say that they can't also compliment one anouther, as I also believe they can. also the Cyclicity Principle is represented not by a pyramid but by the shape of a circle that the 6 opposing princples are in, and the cycle is never ending but rather continously revolving "like a snake eating it's own tail". the top most pyramid, I believe is Balance, as you stated controlling all the principles except for Imagination, which was necessary only to create the spell.

the post where Manu mentions one of the Akasha supporters "found the answer" was I believe in regaurds to "what will happen next" and was probably related to OmegaWeapon's rather briliant idea for Akasha to write the book herself, which of course she did. The question as see it is to understand the Book of Principles as it exist no matter the form: not to create an additional,personal, Book of Principles as Akasha did. we can't be sure what effect that will have, including falling into the Imagination trap. It seemed to me that when Akasha interjected with Alche, she was slightly Irrational and seemed more than a little off. I may be wrong about that, and Akasha please forgive me if I am, but she did lie to Alche and took pleasure in thinking of his destruction in the fire and rather demented in her demeanor I might add. Log, Page 112. I believe Akasha needs our help. That HER book of principles has somehow unhiged her. Alche needs to seek understanding of the pure and uninterpreted Book of Principles or I fear he will fall into the trap of Imagination as well.

BlackThorn

I also don't believe that time and transposition are opposites or complements, all principles are connected to some degree but that doesn't mean they reflect each other. Manu also says in the description that imagination and darkness are connected but that doesn't make them complements. Time and Cyclicity seem to me to be complements as in Time being duration and Cyclicity being frequency which are the reciprocal of each other:

ie Duration = Seconds(time)/Cycle | Frequency = Cycles/Second(time), thats basic physics look it up if you want.

The descriptions of the principles have already been made by Manu and can easily be accessed on the website and on this forum. I assumed that Akasha just copied them onto the pages and so created the book of principles. Alche could do the same but we don't know for sure yet if there isn't a physical book somewhere and now that he is there he may as well try and find it pursing a different course then Akasha did. Maybe such a book contains some additional information etc. since it was written by someone else long ago. Manu said there were 2 outcomes to this quest so Alche is presumably trying to get the other one whatever it is so he should probably not do the same as Akasha did.

As for Akasha's reaction to Alche's request you are reading way too much into it. May I remind that if Akasha had given the book to him it would have ended his quest right there and then, which would have defeated the very purpose of Alche going there to find it himself.

And what do you mean by Akasha needing our help? Her quest is already over and done with.

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ie Duration = Seconds(time)/Cycle | Frequency = Cycles/Second(time), thats basic physics look it up if you want.

nerd. :)

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ie Duration = Seconds(time)/Cycle | Frequency = Cycles/Second(time), thats basic physics look it up if you want.

-> well, maybe he wanted to find a metaphysical approach :) there is more to the principles than physiks and what we accept as laws of nature, because the skillful use of the principles can let us bend such laws... if we dare.

The descriptions of the principles have already been made by Manu and can easily be accessed on the website and on this forum. I assumed that Akasha just copied them onto the pages and so created the book of principles.

-> hmm.... i still believe the things we know are very basic....i think combining them to a book would create "an introduction to the principles" rather than "the book of principles"

As for Akasha's reaction to Alche's request you are reading way too much into it. May I remind that if Akasha had given the book to him it would have ended his quest right there and then, which would have defeated the very purpose of Alche going there to find it himself.

-> i agree on that it's important to find one's own approach to the principles, not to just rely on the achievments of others... but....

-> Page 112 [2008-07-04 03:19:27 - Golemus Wizard quest - Ak. Alc.]

"Fool old man, he realy thinks i will tell him anything about MY book...let him search untill he quits this foolish thought ...ahh and even if..even if he manages to reach the pyramid...he will BURN hhahhahhaaa yes BURN ... he will burn as the wizard said".

-> if this is what happened, and not just what some may have heard, than i do think akasha could need some sort of help or other

saying this, suuljin realises that he judged too soon *sigh*

another perspective... another possibility to come one step closer to the truth...if we try to look at the matter with his eyes, not just our own...

the things repo said cast a completely new light on the matter as well...

but nonetheless... ren seems right... sometimes we need to start things with little but braveness and wit... and use what we find on our path as we go on... deeper...

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If u look at the Gate of Ages it seems to look like a trident with the slow flames rising around it n up. Maybe that could be a key. Just speculating:)

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you do know your plan could kill him right

We have no idea what the Book of Principles can/will do. That having been said, it's just as likely that the book itself will kill as the procedure to get it. That also being said, it's just as likely that getting the book will be a spectacular event and grant the finder eternal power. That also being said, it's just as likely that getting the book will be more mundane than fighting the shades in Tutorial Land and prove nonprofitable to the discoverer. etc, etc, etc....

This is precisely why I said that sometimes it is better to just "wing it." Thus far, we mostly agree that the Book of Principles is something amazing and not just a book that gives precise information on the principles (which would be pretty amazing..). Ergo, it follows that we should be more willing to take the risk in the assumption that the result is good, rather than in the assumption that the result is bad. Or rather, in the hope that the result is good.

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I know what you mean. It's the realm of imagination. All sorts of things could go wrong. But, that doesn't change the fact that the other plans could kill him too. Trying to ride the hot air of the fire to lift?? OR just catch on fire and burn to death.... Try to fly up there with principles? lose control and fall 50 meters... etc, etc. No matter what we come up with, there will be a risk factor.

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"In many tales the Golem is inscribed with magic or religious words that keep it animated. Writing one of the names of God on its forehead, a slip of paper in its mouth, or enscribed on its body, or writing the word Emet (אמת,"truth" in the Hebrew language) on its forehead are examples of such words. By erasing the first letter aleph in Emet to form Met (מת, "dead" in Hebrew) the golem could be deactivated. Another way is by writing a specific incantation in the owner's blood on calfskin parchment, and placing it in the mouth. Removing the parchment will deactivate the golem. It is likely that this is the same incantation that the Rabbi recites in the classic narrative. Golems also need to rest on the Sabbath lest they go berserk."

Now we have the method for activating the weapon - inscribe (something) on the pieces of paper and put it in the mouths (altars) of the pyramids.

However - what the result of such an action will be - who can be sure?

I have to say this reminds me of the spiral and the crossed lines on the wall you see on the way to the Gate of Ages.

Ipomea

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I have to say this reminds me of the spiral and the crossed lines on the wall you see on the way to the Gate of Ages.

Ipomea

eh...it's possible...but that spiral represents something other than a single magic word...... <.<

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Page 145 [2008-07-30 03:18:41]

The Shade Ballance - Sh.

Somewhere deep inside Necrovion a dark cloud swarms around a glowing stone. The Shade Santinel steps forward ... "I need 6 more...". She crumbles a piece of paper and throws it towards the stone. The paper instantly burns out and a drop of darkness falls to the ground. The shade departs.

Does this remind us of a few things? :D

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Does this remind us of a few things? :D

Considering this and what Khal said... there could always be a 'negative' version of the book of principles... I think... maybe not... eh...

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Huh.. I don't know, doesn't the book of principles govern over the whole spectrum already? Not just the "positive" side, whatever that means. Unless the principles don't affect shades, which I doubt, because they go on such long spiels about balance.

Maybe, see, they gain power by burning the pages somehow, or they are trying to prevent the book from being formed.

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Well, somehow seven seems to be related to the arcane part of our mind. 7 days a week, 7 deadly sins etc, I could list a few more things. (Just too lazy to research them again.)

I wondered whether the 7 pyramids have something to do with the 7 principles you could get here. Maximum MP is 5 now, but it is planned to reach 7 later, and considering the game is still developing it might simply be that you have to gather 7 sheets of paper (like the necrovion shade wants to burn) which form your personal book of principles. This may seem related to Akashas solution, but she wrote it with only 6 pages.

At least that was the very first idea I had when I heard about the 7 pyramids and the book. Perhaps you note your principles in the order you chose them on the papers and then have the last two floating pyramids descend, revealing the book. (meaning you somehow need to advance two more MP)

No idea if that had been discussed in this form, but I'd just like to hear your opinion.

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The Shade Ballance - Alc.

Excitedly reaching out to touch the flames, Alche’s body is immediately extinguished. Without any waning, a brave man’s very being is reduced to a pile of dust. A sudden gust of wind blows through the opening, and sends the dust up into the air, and outwards onto the breeze. The ashes spread into different air pockets, and a small amount comes to rest in each of the pyramids.

:(:):blink:

It seems our Idea has Killed Alche... A Brave man Indeed...

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:(:):blink:

It seems our Idea has Killed Alche... A Brave man Indeed...

"Looking around him, he discovers he has reached his goal....Excitedly reaching out to touch the flames,"

Why? He was there, in the top pyramid. Why would he reach out to touch the elemental flames? It makes no sense. When did we get Stephen King to write the adventure log? Well, we know that it is possible to reach the top pyramid. Alche is regretably dead because after working so hard to reach his goal, before he even looks around, he does something that he could have done when he first got there, (something most of us agreed was a very bad idea) he touches the elemental flame. Absolute nonsense, Alche deserved better.

BlackThorn

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look the bright side at lest some of the ashs may have been blowen into the floating pyramids, I hope something odd doasn't happen (like his ashs turning into paper)

p.s. sorry it didn't work out

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hearing the news of alches "death", suuljin wonders

the story we heard told us what others have seen... we have no idea about alches reason for touching the flames. and as blackthorn said, so close to his goal, alche wouldn't have made a silly mistake that puts all his achievements at risk. i believe there has to be a reason for his actions and we have to find that reason.

nodding to innundo, with an acknowledging smile

//changed, hmmm.... isn't innundo a friend of kalazdad, who, too, changed... transformed... becoming a being between life and death? a good thought indeed.... and a witty reply as well// *chuckles*

indeed... but: dead or changed? what is death other than a change of perspective, another point of view? do not the principles govern every aspect - of live, and death as well....

maybe alche realised that he has to free his mind of the body that held him, becoming one with the principles... or at least becoming one with the riddle, to help others solve it.

do we even know if he failed, or if he has seen this step as a neccessary one?

and consider this: the remains of alche, even though burned to ashes, are not lost but inside the pyramids. do not even our servants, the remains, have lost a body and found a new one?

well, this are, of course, speculations.... we may prepare, collect theories about what happened... but i believe the only possibility to verify or falsify them, is to see for ourselfs.

to see what is inside the pyramids and if alches deeds changed anything.... anything we are aware of....

saying this, he becomes silent once more... waiting for the conclusions and ideas of the fellow sages, ready to follow alches path to mount kelle'tha.

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