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Miq

Influence slider

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Alternately, a "checkbox" to "Apply slider to VE as well as Stats?     Simply boolean check then, to add VE or not, and slider can still apply to stats?

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I was thinking more on the line of two sliders. The top (stats) one moves both and then if you want you can tune the lower one separate.

Edited by Miq

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I always saw the fact of having high VE with High Stats as a balancing factor. With priests and lifestealers in use, the higher the VE the higher the stats needed to ensure such creatures don't have a huge effect.

 

I personally would dislike the idea as you could attack with HUGE VE AND combo AND token influence. Seems way too OP to me.

 

MD shop feature?

 

This would also be another one of those "pay to play" things... (up-voted by accident)

Edited by Aethon

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In the end at the moment one can just murder his/her ve and place 100% influence to a fight (or what ever such combination) so this does not change the possibility simply adds option to tune once fights. 

 

There might be implications that i don't see atm for sure.

Edited by Miq

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In the end at the moment one can just murder his/her ve and place 100% influence to a fight (or what ever such combination) so this does not change the possibility simply adds option to tune once fights. 

 

There might be implications that i don't see atm for sure.

this doesnt argue against aethons point, and i would agree with him here that being able to use high VE and 100% token stats at the same time is a little much.

 

going from your point, having to sacrifice your VE to use 100% stats on popes is fine, but sacrificing your VE is the cost to do this, a cost which i think is fair, having an MD shop feature to get this is even worse, as its paying to remove a cost

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I would argue against this feature and I will tell you why : because of the grinders. And you should talk with Mur about this.

 

I remember that once (very very long time ago, when he and I were talking face 2 face) he mentioned that by having this limit it will limit the players from choosing to fight with either lots of power & VE or none at all.

And I would agree with that opinion. If one chooses to gather 1mil VE and 1mil attack&def, why should he have 100% power influence and 0% ve influence.

 

Think of it like this : the strong players just like the weaker players

 - will be unable to have strong rituals without having a large amount of their VE in that ritual

 - or will be unable to save their VE and still have a strong ritual

 

Also, how will the tokens be taken into consideration at 100% ? for 0% power influence  or 0% ve influence or both ?

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Can't this be fixed by separating the token power bonus?

 

- attack with 0% VE and 0% stats = 100% tokens

- attack with 100% VE and 0% stats (or vice-versa) = 50% tokens

- attack with 100% VE and 100% stats = 0% tokens

- and so on

 

You get the idea..

Edited by Myth

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I am against this, for the reasons Aethon and NoOne already mentioned. Do I sometimes find popes or TSs somewhat irritating as a player with moderate stat/VE values? Yeah, I sometimes lose to them. But that's the entire point of those creatures, and of the VE slider being there in the first place. 

 

VE and Stats should not be separated from the slider, IMO for lore reasons as well, other than mechanical ones.

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Can't this be fixed by separating the token power bonus?

 

- attack with 0% VE and 0% stats = 100% tokens

- attack with 100% VE and 0% stats (or vice-versa) = 50% tokens

- attack with 100% VE and 100% stats = 0% tokens

- and so on

 

You get the idea..

And so on ... meaning what ?

Attack 100% or 0%

Defense 100% or 0%

Luck 100% or 0%

and so one ... what ?

 

It was meant to go both or nothing.

This is how was designed so that ppl would have difficulties in setting their fights. And those with too much would be at a disadvantage ... or suffer the consequences of their own grind :D


I feel it too when I have to set my def rit at 1-2%

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I had the very same idea once but I realized that if it gets implemented, you can flush whole combat system down the toilet.

 

Aethon and No one said it right.

 

EVERYTHING in combat is directly tied to that little mechanic of slider, change it and everything goes back to drawing board, every single piece of combat.

 

If you somehow try and manage to keep stuff afloat by trying to keep it true to current combat philosophies, you wouldn't actually change anything. Effectively you would make combat system more complicated, harder to learn, harder to use, yet more unfair and discouraging.

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As i saw it was simply a further complication to the system. Something to play and account for. 

 

 

I don't really see such a big problem with grinders, such as me, since the ve being there or not holds no difference for the grind. 

About the tokens yes myth is correct, 

 

100% ve slider + 100% stat slider = 0% token 

50% ve + 25% stat = 62.5% token 

0% ve + 100% stat = 50% token

 

Miq

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Luck 100% or 0%

and so one ... what ?

 

 

Nope. As per Miq's example, both sliders be taken under consideration as a whole, creating a 200:100 % ratio. For 200% cumulated (VE and stats) you get 0% token power, for 160% cumulated you get 20% token power and so on.

 

Like Miq, I simply don't see the imbalance. I can't think of a concrete example which would jepordize the current combat system. :-/

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Like Miq, I simply don't see the imbalance. I can't think of a concrete example which would jepordize the current combat system. :-/

 

Simply look at what No one wrote, it says most of the why.

 

And I would agree with that opinion. If one chooses to gather 1mil VE and 1mil attack&def, why should he have 100% power influence and 0% ve influence.

 

Think of it like this : the strong players just like the weaker players

 - will be unable to have strong rituals without having a large amount of their VE in that ritual

 - or will be unable to save their VE and still have a strong ritual

 

Current system forces you to risk. Now you might argue that it means nothing since certain people can one-shot other players in combat and hence ain't making any kind of risk but do remember that such scenario wasn't intended in first place and eventually will be reworked. Also look at what Sy told you.

 

going from your point, having to sacrifice your VE to use 100% stats on popes is fine, but sacrificing your VE is the cost to do this, a cost which i think is fair, having an MD shop feature to get this is even worse, as its paying to remove a cost

 

You see, in that case you still paid the price instead of taking the "risk", where in case of a slider you keep your ve.

 

This type of slider instantly removes the tactical use of TSs and UPs from combat because their auras are tied to how current slider works. If you split slider into two then against those creatures you just don't use that slider which is countered by those creatures.

 

I can see many scenarios why this would be bad for newbs. It's pointless to you since you are hardcore but casual new player would be drastically slowed and more frustrated since everybody would be using 0% ve slider in def as if the lack of population ain't enough frustration.

 

People might think that gambling/dumping ve is just bad inconvenience that has no purpose, however it's a very important thing. If this split slider gets implemented ve/heat circulation would drastically drop because players conveniently used slider to save their ve to just sit aside....

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