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DARK DEMON

Center of the Labyrinth

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I think 0x-0.5 is a better answer then 0x0 now that I think of it. At least it suits the clues, that DD has given, better.

 

The center does not exist, needs to be realised --> not a full tile.

 

If we take 0x0 it is a full tile, even if it doesn't contain a scene (now we know it does) it can be considered a solid wall or a pillar.

 

0x0 is how ever, mathematicly off if we take the current dimension of the of the labyrinth. It can only be the center if we assume that the Labyrinth is incompleate in some way ( I did that in my entry). 

 

0x-0.5 is technicly given by the geometry of the current Labyrinth, no need for assumptions. 

 

Edit: Got instant neg rep from dst.  :)) I wonder if it will stick.

Edited by Azrafar

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There's no harm in posting this small part of Asthir's entry here I guess. It will blow your minds away.

 

http://storenow.net/my/?f=886042b814fcbf03566f12458cdc6eca

 

And he actually had "physical" proof for this too by the way, which he sent in an earlier message, but I can't post that because it is evidence that can be found by anyone who looks more deeply in the Labyrinth (hence a spoiler).

 

I personally never wanted nor like "which is better" arguments, especially when there's no point in continuing, but nowadays its unavoidable it seems. I've said this earlier and I'll say it again: Amber's entry was awesome, hence she got the second prize. Please see the original thread and see what exactly I've kept in mind when judging: logic. I didn't let "the answer I had in mind" influence any scoring, except the 5-points "answer" category. She did very well and was impressive in proving her answer, and got the points for it.

Edited by DARK DEMON

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Ok, my mind = blown. Realy, realy good job on this part Asthir. And now I am thinking "why haven't I tought of that"?  :))

 

Having a "physical" proof is intriguing. I'll have to go back now again, to find it my self.  :P

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How do you explain that when your method/logic for finding the center of Labyrinth is applied to mainlands we get result that GoE isn't center of it, and is even less center of world. By your method, center of mainlands would be 1_-0.5x0_1

 

Prove that the entire MD map (every single land) is based on a single huge grid which has n columns and n+1 rows, where n is an odd number.

 

If this isn't proven, then this method can't be applied to the mainlands.

 

 

GoE is considered an "obvious" center of the entire realm, just like 0x0 would be considered the obvious center of the Labyrinth. But we all know that the "end product" didn't allow GoE to be the exact center. Like someone said before me, the GoE isn't the exact center because of how the rest of the realm grew around it, not because it was meant to be like the Labyrinth.

Edited by DARK DEMON

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Just as a quick thing before I crash, I looked up the corners of the mainland map in my coord sheet. Didn't look up MDA because it's 1am here and that can be dealt with later if need be but this was what I found:

 

Edge/corner/far parts of main land map

1_-5x-4_1

GG

1_-5x4_1

LR

1_4x4_1

MB

1_4x-4_1

N

 

Rows: 9

Columns: 10

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Mainlands are based on single huge grid.

 

N columns and N+1 rows, you say? Actually I'll have to counter argument that and point to you that Mainlands map is pointing north while Labyrinth is pointing west. Hence if you took a closer look you would notice that they actually have SAME grids. In both cases your "center" being half scene to the west.

 

Seems to me we have exact same situation in maze and mainland.

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Mainlands are based on single huge grid.
 
N columns and N+1 rows, you say? Actually I'll have to counter argument that and point to you that Mainlands map is pointing north while Labyrinth is pointing west. Hence if you took a closer look you would notice that they actually have SAME grids. In both cases your "center" being half scene to the west.
 
Seems to me we have exact same situation in maze and mainland.

 

I am aware that it is based on a grid, but its not the same actually, because the structure is opposite. On the mainlands map (that is pointing north), the Laby center would actually be half scene south, not west.

 

And I deeply apologize, I misinterpreted  your initial post. You are correct, it would indeed be -0.5x0. Thanks for clarifying!

 

 

What I conclude from this is that the grids are still different, but the effects are the same. If you're reading the Labyrinth map in perspective of the mainlands map (i.e: its pointing west), then according to my method, the Labyrinth center scene would be half a scene south, on the mainlands map. And this is because the rows on the Labyrinth grid are technically columns on the mainlands grid.

 

So basically... I don't see how this is incorrect:

GoE is considered an "obvious" center of the entire realm, just like 0x0 would be considered the obvious center of the Labyrinth. But we all know that the "end product" didn't allow GoE to be the exact center. Like someone said before me, the GoE isn't the exact center because of how the rest of the realm grew around it, not because it was meant to be like the Labyrinth.

 

Credits also go to Shadowseeker for helping me realize this (his shifting point theory is awesome). I asked earlier myself that if the Labyrinth center point could shift, wouldn't that apply to the whole of MD? I got the answer :D

 

Thank you all :)

 

P.S: this maze is always full of awesome surprises, and now I'm like wow

Edited by DARK DEMON

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Gah... you don't understand again. I said that center on both maps is to the west from 0x0. Hence logic is the same for both maps. They are equal. If you take labyrinth map and look at it as normal map where north is pointing up then it has same number of rows and columns as mainlands. Clarified?

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Gah... you don't understand again. I said that center on both maps is to the west from 0x0. Hence logic is the same for both maps. They are equal. If you take labyrinth map and look at it as normal map where north is pointing up then it has same number of rows and columns as mainlands. Clarified?

 

No, I understood correctly this time.

 

Logic/effect is the same, but the exact grid shapes still aren't. Taking Labyrinth map as a normal map where north is pointing up, would indeed give it 9 rows and 10 columns, but in the process it would make the center south of 0x0 (meaning -0.5x0)

 

But looking at it from its own perspective (west pointing up), then the center would be west of 0x0 (meaning 0x-0.5).

 

 

Edit: actually, it would make the center east, wouldn't it? Not south. It would be 0.5x0

 

But I still don't see how you fit in the Labyrinth map itself in the mainlands grid map. You can connect Laby, MDA, Trib etc into a map indeed, but that would break the grid.

 

 

Edit 2:

 

You confused me lol

 

0x-0.5 is half a scene south, not west. Hence switching its perspective from pointing west to pointing north, would make it half a scene east.

Edited by DARK DEMON

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Yes now I see your edits. My browser died so my post went poof before I managed to submit it.

 

 

In reality center seems to be east indeed (because you turn left in archives and continue west), which is exactly opposite than mainlands. (mirror effect?)

 

But if you spin map so it faces south and compare it to mainland map facing north, then it's exact match of grid from mainlands (as in all scene numbers would match each other).

 

Either way my point was that when you spin maze map by 90 degree in either directions number of column and rows will match mainland map. Secondly both maps are grids and if your logic from maze is applied then there's also "secret" center between tranquil plains and gazebo. If this secret labby center is a big deal, then mainland one should also be equally important, if not more. Plus I used your method.

Edited by DARK DEMON
removed Labyrinth map (spoiler)

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But... the coordinates don't match, even in your pics...

 

Spin a 9 column 10 row grid by 90 degrees, it won't become a 9 row 10 column grid, you'd have to change your perspective too and look from the entrance, not from the side of the map. Yes, you can see previous rows as columns and previous columns as rows, but then the coordinates wouldn't match still.

 

In other words, you can't say the grids are equal, if you are looking both of them from different perspectives. You're looking one normally, and the other when rotated 90 degrees, and even then you only managed to get the rows/columns right, you can't get coordinates right.

 

 

However, I do share the belief of a secret center between GoE and Tranquil Plains, there is indeed a link between Labyrinth and the mainlands map, even though its a messed up, or mirrored one. I wonder what such a secret place could possibly hold... :P

Edited by DARK DEMON

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This is why a graph representation of the entire realm is impossible

 

Edit: Underground and Jail aren't represented... they're under...

 

Edit 2: Of course, one can always philosophize about the land being curved in certain ways, but that's another story...

 

Edit 3: Wrong coloring of a location. Thanks :P

 

Edit 4: Unfortunately, because of the coordinate system, a 3D graph representation of the realm as a box is also impossible.

Edited by DARK DEMON
removed Labyrinth map (spoiler)

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This is why a graph representation of the entire realm is impossible

 

 

Edit: Underground and Jail aren't represented... they're under...

 

Edit 2: Of course, one can always philosophize about the land being curved in certain ways, but that's another story...

 

Edit 3: Wrong coloring of a location. Thanks :P

 

Edit 4: Unfortunately, because of the coordinate system, a 3D graph representation of the realm as a box is also impossible.

 

 

Why'd you shrink MDA that much? The scenes there are pretty much the same size as scenes in the rest of the realm, after all, and LotE is proportionately much bigger than that...

[spoiler][attachment=4474:Full Map 1.jpg][/spoiler]

 

My MDA map was made the same grid size as main map, if kept the same size then the MDA scene would match up with the scene left of where I've adjusted it to.

(Colouring wise, it's an old map)

Edited by DARK DEMON
removed Labyrinth map (spoiler)

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Because I have a very small monitor, and I wouldn't have been able to make a screenshot otherwise. :P

 

And that's not exactly my map. I only made that to answer the posts above. The maps I made are scaled a lot better. :p

Edited by Myth

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So that's why I couldn't find anything on my map - it's too complicated and just confuses all the time, being "spread over" that spreadsheet :))

 

Am I too far with that - smth made the center collapse a bit? Or perhaps not a one-time event. Perhaps the center is in constant collapse, just like the center of a black whole - we can't see beyond the Event horizon?

 

(Please excuse my random shots of thoughts in the dark. I've just found out why in the past they were right to believe in many gods, not just one.)

Edited by Fire Starter

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