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Muratus del Mur

Favors and such

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I was not like most people, I was "unacceptable", and it was a really hard time for me.

 

I did do many things on my own without asking Mur, eg: crafted the Ring and started rp with that (which caused http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15752-the-labyrinth-continued/ . Again, everyone just expects/assumes too much and demanded each and everything there and then... I mean, I create an item and people think that I expect to have lots of power granted). Even the research I did, I only presented to him after starting and finishing it by myself.

 

I haven't done anything community related with it yet, I know, but then again, I've got to know myself first before starting on others. Rophs gave me an INCREDIBLE idea to work on, but because he said it in public and not in private, I cannot use it.  (not blaming here, so please don't take it that way)

Edited by DARK DEMON

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I did not go to Mur recently asking for any reward, nor have I ever during our talks expect to be rewarded. I am extremely surprised/impressed as to how you keep coming up with an endless number of these assumptions, to be honest :)

 

I've been speaking to him (not much though) for quite a long time and the only reason I did so at first was to ask if Laby citizenship was possible. Then I saw he had an open mind to it, and that gave me motivation to start it off.

 

It was my (huge) mistake to quote Burns' entire post, instead of the part I specified, so please forgive me on that.

OK, OK, you didn't begged (so you say). Then you said that there were 50+ emails  but you refuse to prove your honesty. Or you say you don't care.

How can one trust you with this attitude ? (but still it is a good improvement since yesterday and an unbelievable since 2 days ago, thus you're on the right track)

 

And still, can you make a thread with just the emails ? ALL of them form both The Council and to Mur ?

Why do I ask that ? because you said something at one point that lead everyone me to believe that you asked something to be coded onto your ring and later that you asked something really powerful from The Council

 

Can you / anyone prove me wrong ? (on any of those accounts)

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OK, OK, you didn't begged (so you say). Then you said that there were 50+ emails  but you refuse to prove your honesty. Or you say you don't care.

How can one trust you with this attitude ? (but still it is a good improvement since yesterday and an unbelievable since 2 days ago, thus you're on the right track)

 

And still, can you make a thread with just the emails ? ALL of them form both The Council and to Mur ?

Why do I ask that ? because you said something at one point that lead everyone me to believe that you asked something to be coded onto your ring and later that you asked something really powerful from The Council

 

Can you / anyone prove me wrong ? (on any of those accounts)

 

What will posting the emails achieve? How will it make you change yours or anyone's thoughts about me, even if say you are proven wrong? In other words, what difference will it make if I post them or not?

 

If you can tell me that, I will post them.

 

 

Edit to clarify: Also, how do I know that you are not just looking for more reasons to criticize?

Edited by DARK DEMON

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[log entire post really log wall of text]

 

I can't really comment on the favoritism, but I am curious about the failed role of Seig and Fang, if you would be willing to oblige me.

oblige everybody please :D

 

Actually, I think I can a little bit, talk on favoritism. (I apologize if this seems hypocritical on my part, as it is not intended that way).

 

I think it is awesome that people who do truly awesome things to get the things they deserve. People who put time and effort into the growth and aid of MD deserve recognition of at least some form, because they earned it. I am going to toss out the recent example of the person who did the symbols, I think that is really cool. I didn't say so obviously because I didn't want to be spammy- I feel I have done enough of that. : p

 

Anywho. When it comes to people who have a history of doing really terrible things (like Seigheart when he stole Avvys), or have no clear understanding of social boundaries and what is, and isn't acceptable (Fang), it really makes people question. It makes it hard to put faith in a person receiving these things because history has shown that well, they can't handle responsibility, or they can't handle social pressure. (I don't personally feel this way, but it's a gander at a guess) And because of that, it makes people wary of when you hand out such large chunks of responsibility. 

 

I am sure I have much more to say on this matter, but right now I'm scatter brained with distractions so I can't quite focus.

which is now why people should now only be given things they only TRULY have, not things mur thinks they might have. they must truly show they have it

 

seigh - i saw in him someone that was fighting against all odds strongly believing in himself, a good example of self motivation. managed to do well in his silent fight with dst, my private personality assassin back then, eventually crashed..but i do think the pressure was ridiculously high on him. Had no personal chats with him untill much later when his image was already tainted.

video ego :))

 

 

I personally think you should always maintain a desire to reward those that stand out - but only when you are in touch properly with both the person in question, the reason they stand out, and the communities attitude.

 

The community can be wrong, and almost always is, I find, but there is always a reason for them to have the perception they have.

Someone give this man another medal!

 

The fact that you can achieve things through actual effort in MD is one of the reasons I still recommend it to people I meet. But just because someone has one aspect perfectly aligned to a task does not make them suitable - it is the sum of their parts that makes them suitable, and you generally wont see all the many minor aspects that run perpendicular with just a snapshot.

If you accomplish something through effort in MD then it stops being MD. MD is a game and you should be playing it for fun. Do something you enjoy, maybe do it over and over. Do something you can have fun doing and something that makes you feel satisfied, your character will grow and people will see it as effort. Also remember that I am wrong about this, the real secret is 'luck'.

 

Sometimes "soon" is better than now.

On roles "soon" is better than now unless the role is happening now, at which point "soon" started long ago and MD is ready. On big stuff like A25 I don't really mind "soon" if it means we can iron out the bugs. (How awful would it be if someone was just messing around with A25 stuff and accidentally figured out an SQLi bug and used it to silently mess with the DB?)

 

 

Hrm... how to word my emotions on the matter.

MurMur, i think you should keep doing what feels right by you, and only you.

When were about to die, and were on our death bed, we only have to live with ourselves and our decisions.

Do whats right by you, and you can live a life of no regrets. A life of no regrets leads to a comfortable death.

Others may consider me a failed role, but i dont consider myself a complete failure. I didnt live up to my full potential either, and thats equally true.

I like to think im somewhere in the middle of success and failure. I like to think i finally know what Balance is, after all this time.

My goals have not changed. My Road may have twists and turns but the Light at the end of the Dark tunnel has never left my sight.

Im not inactive. I work 8 hours a day, but the day i leave MD for good (Which i doubt will ever happen, small breaks in between or not) is the day i finally, truly, fail Murs vision of what i could one day be.

Ive learned over time (And more so recently) how to control my feelings and words to those that can not handle them. Ive finally learned what Political Composure looks like. Ive finally realized whats expected of me and what isnt. This is my way of thanking Mur for believing in me those many moons ago (By giving him less Fang related time consuming crap to deal with/listen to).

I still help the new ones in MD out of personal greed and satisfaction. Making the Deserving Happy makes me feel genuinely amazing.

My Greed is my Selflessness
My Evil is my Good
My Darkness is my Light
And my Insanity keeps me Sane

And thats the way ill be, till the day i die with no regrets.

They say we pass on the title of Chewett (rather ChewIX said so :P). Maybe passing on Mur when a "suitable candidate" comes along wouldn't be the worst idea. Current Mur can play as someone else, and maybe someone else can just be "really good at MD for some reason and get really far in his first year" for some reason right around the time Mur changes... maybe that person will call Mur out on being different and ask Mur if he's the same person :P hehehe

Also good luck Fang.

 

Your blindness is your sight, your ignorance is your knowledge.

What do I mean? I mean that some people will judge you and treat you poorly but you're doing the right thing of not letting them get under your skin. The inner sun... you have most of the pieces but the ones you have are arranged wrong and might be disproportiantely sized. If you put the pieces of a puzzle together and are missing a few in the middle then the search for the remaining pieces won't be difficult, you know how they are shaped and what the edges will look like. sometimes you can cut out a piece of cardboard and paint the right colors on it to complete the puzzle :)

 

Don't worry men you rock (that's not engrish, it's me adressing Mur and Fang, yes it is engrish)!

 

 

 

What a topic ... I was waiting for this a long time seeing the chance in it to hear everyone´s opinion too.

 

My opinion on the matter of favorism.

 

1. There is no true everywhere fully excepted definition of favorism ... to say it with a quote:

 

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."

 

(http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/bill_cosby.html)

 

Everyone within MD who has done something (or is still doing) important knows what this means. There will be always an opposition.

From my point of view there is no way around this and if one tries he/she will fail. So don´t even start to try (only if you would like to have the experience of this failure).

 

2. I cannot say that MD was better or not in the time you were active "rulling" the realm but one thing is for sure. As long as a community is not "equal" and I hope it will never be, there will always be the need of some leading characters. This could be a group of responsible people who are widely accepted and preferable acting without personal interest (the council of MD is supposed to have this role in our realm) or a single person. If both is missing someone (or a group) will eventually try to take this place and from my point of view thats purely natural, because a gap needs to be filled (look into nature its an "universal law"). I don´t know how to achieve this, it all depends on those again we call community. But again we are facing the same "problem" that the community will always be divided into opposing groups and the favorism comes into play sooner or later. You cannot escape.

 

3. I have no advise to give just my opinion which is again painted with the colour of my own wishful thinking. Not a single human being I have meet so far in my life was selfless acting without any desire or "ego interest". We cannot be equal (we would be machines) in thinking and feeling and I love it. I love all the friction and the possibilities of evolution which comes from it, if its used with knowledge and awareness. (Would be worth a seperate topic to discuss) 

So I would like to see the realm of Magic Duell moving forward, developing not in a particular direction but growing. From my point of view the worst thing in life is stagnation, which is for me the start of regression. I see MD in this state since a long time now. So far I cannot see the community as whole to be ready to act as one, with similar interests dealing with each other in a respectful, accepting way without losing the uniqueness of every single charcter.

At the moment I would like to see a single person playing "god" without being a tyrant or dictator (someone who is working only for his/her own interest against everyone else).

 

I wish all of you wonderful rest of the week and a perfect weekend.

 

Enjoy Life.

yes :D Menhir you still remember how people are and know how they think. yes we are often greedy and there is no perfect person. this could mean two things

  1. we are inherently born bad
  2. we are born good and get corrupted

there's no REAL way to know without doing a very intensive and inhumane scientific study (and impossible too probably :P)

really you just need to be more evil > :)

 

Then go back to the way it was, and make them RPCs. Make them god-like and untouchable and powerful, but in turn: Hold them accountable for their powers, make them bloody HOSTAGES of their powers!

 

Pick people and give them fancy stuff. We all enjoy to see fancy stuff in action, most of it is pretty cool after all. But also give them a specific task!

Give them pieces of information nobody else has, but not general stuff. If you pick a shade whisperer, tell them something about the shades not even the king of necro knows, if you pick an illusionist, give them background on illusions, and so on. Tell them where their story is heading, and MAKE THEM MAKE IT HAPPEN! As drachorn guy, i'd love to know exactly what the drachorns can and cannot do in the future, but i can't write my own story for them because their story already exists, at least in your mind, and i simply don't know it. Can i write a story-line where the drachorns eat the tiny men and ravage Golemus? Probably not, but even that might be possible. Can i make a drachorn fly off and hide in loreroot, or do they dislike the woods? I simply don't know, and even as drachorn guy i'm not in a position to write such attributes myself.

My goodness yes, I know many things about Wiiya etc but I don't know "really" enough to confidently do MORE with it. Although careful with this too, don't give anyone too much or people might get jealous and thing it's unfair. And you will give too much, and people will think that. =)) Can I fill the empty Aramors with Wiiya and have it "turn into" their brains? Maybe they need some matter too so I'll use those reality coagulators in the lab to make organs, but they won't remember anything will they? Yes its why they didn't tell Falronn where they were from or anything that wasnt very recent. They need memorystones too and we have detectors for that :) Only thing GG was missing to make Golems from Aramors was the Wiiya. UUGH WHERE IS UGARD WHEN YOU NEED HIM!?!?!?! (Half of this purple paragraph is at Mur and the other half is me ranting at the universe, but only some of it...)

 

ANYONE who gets something nice from you should also have a clear task assigned to it, like Eon and dst, as examples. You gave them fancy stuff (heads control and special access), and a task to fulfill (run contests with heads and spy on people). This is what MD needs more of, not random people running around with a bunch of powers, who all 'have something special' but no way to develop the things they have, because they only have powers, but no reasons.

Yes, and make trust points work with it too. But there's no heads contests anymore. Do we still NEED heads contest moderators? I think letting them keep that admin-type-role is fine but their powers should not EXTEND BEYOND THAT ROLE. So let them 'keep' sendtogoe but only have it in their spells when there is a headscontest active (the scripts to start a HC, add something that gives them the spell in the DB. scripts that end HC remove that spell from their powers at the end). At this point HC mods is almost "random people running around with a bunch of powers". (This is partially to mur, partially to 'provoke' dst :D)

 

And if they fail to deliver, FIRE THEM! If you set someone the task to lead an expedition to the east and find out what's behind the dry water temple, and they don't get anything done within 6 months, take away their east loyalty. If you create a role like Braiton again (drachorn mutations, for those who don't remember, which is now in the wish shop) and they don't manage to create a story about it, take it away again! YOU are still the only one who knows the big picture, use your advantages and connect the random powers you throw out to fitting tasks that drive the game forward. Give them additional informations and let them use it as they see fit, THIS can make a role happen.

Trust points, make them more 'REAL'. And give us nice snippets. Maybe give me snippets about Wiiya and let me make a quest to make golems to crew a ship west. Maybe after Rophs gets a crew ready something will happen and he will realize they cannot go but he will turn the Aramors into Golems and have them sail away on a ship.... (for you mur/council @ trust points;;; mur @rest)

 

You might think that we, as the stupid mob we are, dislike people like Fang because you give them something cool and we are jealous. Some might be, granted, but the big majority here likes to see people do something cool and awesome. But we can't respect an illusionist who talks about illusions and every second word is straight up wrong. When you give him illusions, you also need to give him some informations about illusions that are NEW, and make him present them in one way or another. He can do lectures, or talk to people, or make a quest, the only thing that he mustn't do is keep it from the public. And if he fails to do so, take away his toys again. That's not a punishment of any kind, it just happens that the role and the person didn't fit together in the end.

Yes, you see people doing very generic lectures about non-md specific things such as Fear or Deception (still are awesome and great for MD, but they aren't on the depth of md we could be CAPABLE of...) but make sure people know that the things should be a secret. They can tell others, but not literally. Make the others figure out by dropping hints of the info, give them some pieces and probably not all because Mur would be a fool to give the role person all of his pieces because Mur knows he doesn't have all of them..

 

YOU can use those randomly assigned powers to SHAPE the story. You can even give people completely different tasks and just see what happens: Tell me, as drachorn guy, to take an egg from the lair and smuggle it into Necro's Graveyard, and tell Azull, as king of Necro, that there is only one important thing about his reign, that he must never allow a drachorn egg to pass the howling gates, at all. Or kick it up a notch, and tell Grido, as king of Golemus, that you expect him to invade Necrovion within 3 months, AND let Azull know that an invasion is coming, but not which army is heading at him. And if i don't manage to do anything in regard to that egg, fire me! And if Azull doesn't manage to put up a fight when Grido comes, fire him!

Shh shh burns, don't let NC know about the invasion. shhh shhhhh ;P smart idea gogogo (ignore this purple line, I am crazy)

 

 

 

I like most of your thoughts a lot.

I concur :D

 

[/log]

Two posts because too big for one...

Edited by Rophs

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[log part 2:]

 

 

This looks very attractive and seems the type of thing many people would agree to at first glance, but really when it comes into practice, 90% people are against this. Take the most recent example of me discussing Laby stuff with Mur being highly discouraged by the community, and all kings of wrong assumptions being made.But 90% of people don't get to talk to Mur about their roles :'( lucky you

 

 

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by dstView it anyway?

 

Underrated feature helps protect your sanity.

 

 

This is like asking for god to show you the meaning of your existence while in fact it's up to you to "find" it yourself.

You get given it once you find it, but you only get given part of it because you only have found part of it. Make a new account and read EVERYTHING.

 

As for your last paragraph, you know it won't work mech-wise.

"Anything can be coded."

-Chewett

 

 

All I can say is this: anticipate the consequences and act of your own accord. This has been said by many before me, and I agree because of the following...

 

I strongly feel that it's none of my business to tell anyone how to choose what their actions should be. How I think you should do stuff will never run parallel to your, or anyone else's view. There never is right or wrong, true or false, black or white - you name it - because true objectivity will most likely never exist.

 

Personally, if I deem someone's intent worthy, they are exempt from all negative consequences in my point of view. Why? Because failure is not something I believe anyone should be condemned for.

People will disagree on 'worthy' intent. Careful.

 

So again, just as others said: do as you wish and deal with the consequences.

 

To clear something up, my definition of anticipating consequences is to be informed. I keep reading that A reaction is better than no reaction - well, not exactly... a late, informed reaction is much better than a hasty one - which is < / = to no reaction, if you ask me.

 

And this doesn't apply to you alone. It's how I believe everyone is supposed to work.

You are thinking too much. MD has a great deal of "feeling' too. You to be more wiyyan and less fenthy, but a fenthy approach can work. It did for Chew I think, but he was probably much more wiiyan when he did RPC stuff and SoE stuff too....

 

 

It is very late in Curi time, so I might be a bit unclear. If any clarifications are needed, I will attempt in my best way.

 

I am all for accountability, and I really like what Burns stated.  There are a lot of roles out there that have abilities, powers, paths, what have you, but no real destination nor any real "design" for effort. I'm going to pick on Rophs a bit (I apologize, and I also apologize as I really have no clear understanding of your role aside from the basics), and say that if you gave him the role that he has, and he doesn't fulfill it within a certain time period, or if his seed walks become an utter shame, then why should he still have that title and role?  It makes no sense. It is as if you're giving freebies with no sense of them understanding the gravity of what it is that they have- which is literally a game changer. 

Nobody comes to Seedwalks anymore, and I want to attribute that to there being less people but I'm not sure of that's the case because it's about me and there's a conflict of interest because of that.

 

If you have someone who is being an utter pill who can't have any social grace, then hell yeah, it should be the community's right to voice their opinion on the matter. We are the sound board; we give feed back on what we feel works and what doesn't. But, I can speak from my own personal experience, it seems like that feedback tends to be more on the "ignored" side, which leads to frustration, which leads to stagnation,which leads to resentment. Does that make any sense? I am not trying to pick on you at all, it's just my brain has had time to process and I'm tired so I'm chatty.

The community is made of people. People always thing they are right. People who think they are always right are always wrong. People are always wrong. The community is always wrong. Follow my bad logic that leads to a correct solution, don't disregard it because of the fallacies, a fallacious argument can still be correct. We might get the right answer but use the wrong solution to reach it. But most people haven't seen my "lack" of Seedwalks lately because nobody's seen any more of then than mood panel posts and logs from the "good" ones. It's a nice illusion  :) 

 

Once more, I am going to reiterate the fact that I am incredibly against the lack of accountability that people have for these roles (again, call me a hypocrite, but I paid my dues). And, like Rophs, am going to pick on DD because his response was brief and to the point.  People actually WANT those with these special shinies to have a big red button that could axe everything for them. It isn't a one strike you're out system, but if they mess up, then something needs to be done. I don't believe anyone is ever above that.

People think they want the shinies. People are wrong. People don't want the shinies, people want the satisfaction of getting the shinies and then looking back on how they got the shinies. People want memories. The end doesn't justify the means always. The journey is more important than the destination. (Go find my one post about how I (the player) knows that Rophs (the character) won't go west. He (player) knows that Rophs (char) will grow and get stronger. And he knows that he will also learn by coordinating Rophs's interests (player,player,character).

 

Also remember that I'm a person and therefore I am dumb and everything I say is wrong. (Somebody quote this out of context and put it in your signature)

 

 

 
If you actually read what you quoted, you'd find that what i talked about it unrelated to anything that is currently happening, because Mur doesn't do that anymore. I should know, i've been the drachorn guy for ages now, and still don't know where to go with them big-picture-wise.
It wouldn't matter how you got to your stuff, if by making a quest so remarkably good that everyone wants to give you something cool, or by having an idea so brilliant that council wants to support you, or by telling Mur what he wants to hear, it doesn't matter, not when your powers aren't for life anymore. Nobody cares where you got your stuff from, what matters is if you can handle it. And if you can't, no big deal, you get fired and the next guy gets a shot.
 
As it is, all powers and roles and stuff are for life, regardless of how well you do. That's why it's unacceptable to have an inactive illusionist, because as long as Fang lives, there won't be another illusionist. Who here still knows Raven personally? Yeah, that guy was the illusionist before Fang, and he had to fall out of grace 3 times and be gone for 3 years before Fang got his chance. That's also why people don't want you to have lab-citizenship before showing that you can handle it, because once you have it, even if you turn out to be completely uncapable of doing anything sensible with your citizenship, you will never, ever lose it again, and there will very likely not be another player getting that chance for the next 2 years.
Yes. And remember that once you get the Role 'officially' you will often not do it as well. Before I 'was' the Seedwalker I definitely did a bunch more for Seedwalk and Awi's Seeds. Why? I had something to prove. Now that I have the fancy tag etc there isn't as much of a psychological "NEED". Take for example the sterotypes associated with "New Money" and "Old Money". One is really snobby and the other is humble and doesn't make wealth part of their identity. Huh where was I going with that? You probably know what I meant better than I do  :P

 

You've not seen what can be done in a proper war, one that is driven by story rather than mechanics. The Shade War worked pretty much before killing was invented. People ran around and stabbed each other in the back, and the guy who got stabbed actually died, long before there were any items at all. Big C got captured by the shades, long before there were spells that would bind him. He just played along, and got locked up.

This^

 

I feel the need to elaborate that point some more, thus edit:

Imagine if i actually had the task to smuggle a drachorn egg past Azull. From a pure mechanical point, that takes me about 3 seconds: Grab an egg, teleport to necro, and type in chat 'Haha, i win! Suck it, Necros!'

Does that sound like it fulfills the task? Mechanically, maybe. To add something to the game, not so much. To get that task done, i'd need to find spies who can tell me when their guard is the lowest, someone who can open a way for me (and no, probably not the howling gate, too many guards there), possibly hire MB to distract them. I'd have to sneak in like Frodo, not knock at the front gates like Aragorn. Though i'd probably find myself an Aragorn for distraction.

And now imagine that 3-5 people have such a task at the same time. It's like playing Risk: I want to get my egg into Necro, Grido wants to overthrow Azull, Mya tries to steal an angien and Peace wants to sacifice a citizen of the East at Path Keeper. And we all sort of know what the others are up to, if we have good connections, and try to make use of their actions to get our own game along. That's where you get a real plot, like the Shade War.

Yes, yes  :D please.

 

I accept your point about 'finding it yourself', but if we all go around and find it ourselves, you end up with a story like that: phantasm used dagger on dst, dst used revive. The End.

Unfun story  :(

 

 

Can confirm, Still have Ary Tag after resigning.... four? Three years ago?
(however there is already a fantastic new Ary in my place already. <3)

go ivorak  :D

 

 

My example was just that: an example. I did "actually read", and I was referring to this part:

 

 

 

Original statement still stands, because I'm not referring to recent events, I'm referring to the anti-Mur attitude most people have. If you don't trust him to talk to people, how do you expect him to give info?

To 'get' the role you want first you need to make us think you already are it. There were two major events that made me realize "whoa, I'm known for Seedwalks now...".

  1. A player asked me about Handy Pocket's journey to necro in the AL. I didn't know about it but I wasn't "Seedwalker" yet so I had to PROVE MYSELF. What did I do? I ran around like a headless chicken and found answers.
  2. A player asked me if they could do Seedwalks, it meant people thought I was the Seedwalks dude, that other people couldn't do them. I told that player "why not? You know what we do on Seedwalks, go do one."
  3. BONUS: One time I idled at Awiiya's way and un-idled to find a Seedwalk. Was AWESOME. Best feeling I've ever gotten from MD.

 

 

I have one suggestion. Pass all such rewards to the council for final decision with you personal reasons and importance attached.

Yes. If it is a land-related role then it should be passed by a simple majority. In the case of affairs external to a land then by a 2/3 majority.

 

 

 

Exactly what is being discussed with Mur right now. Someone else can see the solution.

EDIT:

 

As long as Mur actually replies to my emails...

HEY MUR, reply

 

 

The reason why i fix roles in place and why i keep positions unavailable even years after a person fails or goes away, is because that is part of md persisntance and part of my respect for loyalty and trust.

I think that someone who has gone away would much rather see a spiritual successor to themselves upon returning rather than a void where they used to be. It gives them more of a legacy.

I think any achievement in md is something very personal and should have a huge inertia in time. If i trusted you once with something, i also assume the damage that you might do with that role. Thats what i understand by full power, once yours always yours. There are very few things that could make me disobey this invisible rule and i usually try harder than you to keep your role regardless of what damage you do.

You're taking too much credit for others' actions.

people work sometimes years to reach the point where they define a role..it should be years till it fades away.

They should not work, or well... for them it should not feel like work. MD is a game that should be played for fun, and when it stops being fun and stops being work then the roles we play start to lose meaning.

titles will make this perpetual actually..with a new method to deal with inactivity, even short term inactivity

Titles are the future  :D

 

 

I'm totally with Burns on how "favors" should be granted, meaning with an aim or a direction to follow.

Me three

 

Lately I noticed your (Mur's) excitement regarding at least a couple of things: Ackshan's post in the Dark Balance thread and Yasrin Luvien's symbolic drawings for the principles. 

I believe such people and such intuitions should be "rewarded" if you feel they deserve it.

That thread it taunting me, I can see the subforum and the threads in it but if I try clicking on a thread it says I don't have access.  :(

 

Saying "in the past you would have got fancy stuff but now I can't anymore or people would start complaining" is unacceptable to me.

No use for a dead god, or a paralyzed one.

You can give fancy stuff, just do it better.

 

Of course this kind of support implies being aware of what happens in MD, this is why what Miq suggested seems a good compromise to me.

Indeed so

 

 

I have stated my view on favors and all on my comment for Mur . You can read it there and if you really want to answer it ... you can write in a closed topic or anywhere else. I read.

 

@DD:

 

DD, read up or you'll keep getting the wrong decisions.

When you read what Burns wrote ... did you considered that most of those ppl with important roles never asked for such roles? they played their roles for years before Mur has opened the eyes to see what they were doing . See all other examples we have today : Chewett (as most obvious), BFH , Burns, even Greedo, Nim, Z, and many many more.

Play your role, when the community sees you as that role then you're much more likely to get official recognition. You should not feel like you are working for the role, you should feel like you're just playing MD.

 

On the other hand, you play for 1 month one role ... kind of alone, then expect to be rewarded. Dude, you are not a dog to get a bone when you fetch the stick. If you expect to be treated like a dog ... sniff around and see what happens.

 

 

 

As Curiose said here, because there are too many of red buttons on unreliable ppl we hate the beggars.

Sure, some ppl could handle the role but why not do it as it used to be ? Why not doing it like it was proven to work ? Why not wait for the right ppl to arise then reward them ?

You ask why not? I ask: Why?

 

 

I did not go to Mur recently asking for any reward, nor have I ever during our talks expect to be rewarded. I am extremely surprised/impressed as to how you keep coming up with an endless number of these assumptions, to be honest   :)

 

I've been speaking to him (not much though) for quite a long time and the only reason I did so at first was to ask if Laby citizenship was possible. Then I saw he had an open mind to it, and that gave me motivation to start it off.

 

It was my (huge) mistake to quote Burns' entire post, instead of the part I specified, so please forgive me on that.

post not directed at me, no comment
 
 

I think what they're trying to say is that you should have acted like the ones before you did: not go to Mur, and instead act towards your goal regardless of whether it was possible or not, running on the belief that if you strive enough for it, it will eventually become possible to obtain what you worked for.

this, but it should not feel like work. Maybe others will see it as work, but you should just let it happen.

 

That's the way it used to be done, and the way most people here believe roles should be handed out. Knowing something is possible eases the burden of achieving it. So I guess most will expect to see people being rewarded for having trust in themselves: don't ask if it's possible, but instead believe you can make it become such.

It's possible, you never need to ask if it is. Just remember that MD is a game and if you're not having fun then you should switch up how you play.

 

 

I was not like most people, I was "unacceptable", and it was a really hard time for me.

 

I did do many things on my own without asking Mur, eg: crafted the Ring and started rp with that (which caused http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15752-the-labyrinth-continued/ . Again, everyone just expects/assumes too much and demanded each and everything there and then... I mean, I create an item and people think that I expect to have lots of power granted). Even the research I did, I only presented to him after starting and finishing it by myself.

Going things on your own and not asking Mur is fine, but you're being so flamboyant about it. People might see that and think you're trying to say "HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE THIS PLEASE GIVE ME A ROLE". Just do that role and people will notice. For me it was simple as enjoying Seedwalks and doing enough of them to become "that Seedwalk dude" aka Seedwalker.

 

I haven't done anything community related with it yet, I know, but then again, I've got to know myself first before starting on others. Rophs gave me an INCREDIBLE idea to work on, but because he said it in public and not in private, I cannot use it.  (not blaming here, so please don't take it that way)

If someone not named DD clicked on it then they're a cheater  :P . You can still use that idea, I think it would be fun as heck. People who did cheat would only have a general idea of what to expect, they'd have no idea about the sticky stuff, zero specifics. 

 

 

OK, OK, you didn't begged (so you say). Then you said that there were 50+ emails  but you refuse to prove your honesty. Or you say you don't care.

How can one trust you with this attitude ? (but still it is a good improvement since yesterday and an unbelievable since 2 days ago, thus you're on the right track)

@No one: How can someone take your seriously with this attitude?

 

And still, can you make a thread with just the emails ? ALL of them form both The Council and to Mur ?

Why do I ask that ? because you said something at one point that lead everyone me to believe that you asked something to be coded onto your ring and later that you asked something really powerful from The Council

You're asking for a lot too much in that, even if he did email asking for coding on the ring he could omit those emails and you wouldn't know if he omitted the emails. Sure, you could accuse him of omitting those emails but you could accuse him of that if there were no such emails too.

 

Can you / anyone prove me wrong ? (on any of those accounts)

There are people who can, but they probably will not.

 

 

*cough* Back on topic...(I've wanted to do that since Kyphis did it)

I probably shouldn't call myself active. Ugh. Forum doesn't count.

Why make the total investment of power at once? Test people with something small. "I need you to find owners for these two drachs"... is one kind of small. Another kind of small is "Sorry, for that kind of ability you need at least a level five angiens."

(I can't think of good examples...The classic is the boy tested as a shepherd who becomes king.)

As long as the test is something that pulls their interest, I doubt they'd be able to resist.   ;)

AB

But if Mur randomly gives people tasks they would know what's ahead and try to force roles unnaturally. People should just play the game and do things they think are fun and let roles happen.

 

 

 

 

What will posting the emails achieve? How will it make you change yours or anyone's thoughts about me, even if say you are proven wrong? In other words, what difference will it make if I post them or not?

 

If you can tell me that, I will post them.

 

 

Edit to clarify: Also, how do I know that you are not just looking for more reasons to criticize?

When people act like that just ignore them, seriously. He's just trying to get under your skin. Maybe he isn't, but the majority of people will see it as such and there's no real way for him to prove he's not trolling.

[/log]

 

Yes, I did just reply to every single post.

 

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What will posting the emails achieve? How will it make you change yours or anyone's thoughts about me, even if say you are proven wrong? In other words, what difference will it make if I post them or not?

 

If you can tell me that, I will post them.

 

 

Edit to clarify: Also, how do I know that you are not just looking for more reasons to criticize?

 

Look, you said you didn't do it but you still said about a large amount of emails. I say that you did. So, until you prove me wrong ... I consider you a liar. (like that matters to anyone but me).

And maybe there are others that think the same.

 

If that matters to you, it will help your rehabilitation (at least within my eyes).

 

---------------

Oh, one more thing: prove me wrong and I will lift my promise (that's the second promise I make, the second this week and the second within the last 6 months).

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You get given it once you find it, but you only get given part of it because you only have found part of it. Make a new account and read EVERYTHING.

 

I meant that you have to find it yourself and as such you give it to yourself. Not for it to be handed on a silver plate or imposed on you. If that happens there is highly likelihood that there won't be any driving passion behind it, it might even feel as stressful/unpleasurable job. There is just no point in having something and not knowing what you want to do with it. Nothing worth having is easy to acquire.

 

I have no clue what you mean with last sentence.

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Look, you said you didn't do it but you still said about a large amount of emails. I say that you did. So, until you prove me wrong ... I consider you a liar. (like that matters to anyone but me).

And maybe there are others that think the same.

 

If that matters to you, it will help your rehabilitation (at least within my eyes).

 

---------------

Oh, one more thing: prove me wrong and I will lift my promise (that's the second promise I make, the second this week and the second within the last 6 months).

 

Nobody other than you has asked, no, demanded this. I don't think you're trolling, you may have reasons on your own, but again, my change in attitude from being rude does not mean that I'll specially "favor" and spend so much time sorting stuff for someone who has judged me based on assumptions and wrong aspects in the past. The people that do matter to me however, if they want to see them, then I am much more likely to agree.

__________________________________________________

 

Rophs, I admit yes that a purpose of my conversations with Mur was to keep track of "Labyrinth achievements". This was because

 

1) My achievements were "secret" and had nothing to do with community-stuff

2) Come on, you and I both know it is obvious that if I tried to reveal them it would have been seen as me doing major bragging :)

Edited by DARK DEMON

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I believe some Role Creation Assistence can only be done by you. Council can help in some cases but due to the nature of certain roles a God like decision is needed at some point.

Ofc there will always be community conflits/complaints about it.. especially when roles or tools are overpowered or unbalanced.
Community will discuss, complain, accept or not.. All this, within boundaries, is a good thing for MagicDuel.

So.. Active God and Active Coder... Please.
 

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Personally what I am seeing is more people want structure. I am not sure 100% what this post is asking for but from skimming through the odd posts from people I know or have a large quantity of posts I can be about 63% sure of what your asking for.

 

So what I see currently is the veteran players are saying they want to return to RPC roles or basically a very structured, hard coded and carefully monitored system. Although I am a slave to nostalgia like most people I like to write my thoughts out on paper since it lets me glance past the Vail of my emotions (yes when you read my posts you are entering the chaos of my mind at work). Though I think the abolishment of RPC's during the festival of pain was a step in the right direction with a somewhat unexpected result. My personal thoughts on magic duel have never been that this is a game. You often see me silent but that is not just because I am inactive (I attack people in the location) but I observe more than anything. See in my mind magic duel is more of a twisted sociological experiment and it really is when you look at it closely. A bunch of faceless people come from there own respective wooden boxes (random sample) and are dropped in a blank slated world that they have to construct for them selves what it is.

 

Now from a game play perspective I understand the need for RPC's and strict structure. Though I think RPC's where done away with since in a real world the only roles which are controlled are peoples jobs where peoples sociological roles are not controlled. It may be if mur is willing to have 2 different role types. The first being what we have currently unregulated sociological roles and in turn also have regulated roles or people with a job in order to complete it. Basically people that are under the jurisdiction of mur or a king which have an actual job to do. These roles would be judges, secretaries, and event organizers.

 

So I think mur should be a active but limited active god and when required a coder. The wookie seems quite on top of it at the moment (if you are not in a rush for new features and balancing like me).

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I would say mur would need to become a player again first (not necessary under his name, even better if not known it's him)
Then be the god and coder
Secondhand information can only tell you so much
I know that might be difficult, but it would be enlightening

A second idea could be having a second tengri around, someone from the community and not under the "restrictions" of a god
People will always dislike people with power over them, but we need them
We're good to have people with a vision to 'lead' us

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YOU can use those randomly assigned powers to SHAPE the story. You can even give people completely different tasks and just see what happens: Tell me, as drachorn guy, to take an egg from the lair and smuggle it into Necro's Graveyard, and tell Azull, as king of Necro, that there is only one important thing about his reign, that he must never allow a drachorn egg to pass the howling gates, at all. Or kick it up a notch, and tell Grido, as king of Golemus, that you expect him to invade Necrovion within 3 months, AND let Azull know that an invasion is coming, but not which army is heading at him. And if i don't manage to do anything in regard to that egg, fire me! And if Azull doesn't manage to put up a fight when Grido comes, fire him!

Title granting authorities can do exactly this, within reason (except for the firing part, and even then within reason if you word it correctly - which is easy)

 

 

The reason why i fix roles in place and why i keep positions unavailable even years after a person fails or goes away, is because that is part of md persisntance and part of my respect for loyalty and trust.

I think any achievement in md is something very personal and should have a huge inertia in time. If i trusted you once with something, i also assume the damage that you might do with that role. Thats what i understand by full power, once yours always yours. There are very few things that could make me disobey this invisible rule and i usually try harder than you to keep your role regardless of what damage you do.

people work sometimes years to reach the point where they define a role..it should be years till it fades away.

titles will make this perpetual actually..with a new method to deal with inactivity, even short term inactivity

I speak as an Archivist.

 

Hypothetical:
Someone may work for years to earn a role in MD, and they may deserve it and fulfil it perfectly, both to your and the communities expectations. But then life might get in the way, and they might be away for three years.

Because they fulfilled their role so perfectly, you did not give their old role - a role that was important to the social health of MD - to anyone else. But when they return, because no one has done that role for three years, only the ancient vets even know that players name.

With no one doing the role, new players do not even realize such a role exists, or could exist. Because they do not know it exists, no one asks about it, so there is no discussion and no memory.

 

Is it better for a players role - and thereby the memory of their entire existance in MD - be forgotten than to have that role be renewed? One of the most common questions I get asked (aside from "tell me a story") is the history of my role as Land Leader. And not in terms of myself, but of those who came before. They see me having a role, and they want to know how it was before I had this role. And so Pamplemousse, Je Souis ous fous, and Renavoid, as well as all the others who contributed to running the MDA like Yami, are remembered.

 

Before you put the statue up, did you try asking people in Marble Dale Park or the Gazebo of Equilibrium who Cutler was? Do you think Alche would be remembered without Alche's Alley? These people, who once played a huge role in MD, barely exist anymore.

 

I say it is better for a role to be renewed, so that people can learn about the past of the role and all who strove for its existance, rather than letting it be forgot. True, for some like Alche and Awiiya we have things that exist because of their role. And true, for people like Wodin, BigC, and Khalazdad, the AL preserves a small piece of their memory. But in this current era, there is no AL, and there are few named entities. The history of many roles is being lost, because the role itself is lost. And when that happens, the player might as well have never existed.

 

 

 

EDIT: Obviously not all roles deserve to be refreshed. There will always be a need for roles in the nature of "Only you will get to try this, fail and the role dies with you".
Obviously >.>

Edited by Kyphis the Bard

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I agree with the RPCs.  They used to keep people *cough* who abused other players in check with their powers.  You never saw flat out harassment of players when Z and others had the powers stop them.  Not only did RPCs keep a good balance of play, but they also were able to change the game with their unique outlook on the game.  When you have 6 people, who are worthy of such a role, there are 6 directions that are taken.  While each direction may not be the 'right' one, they are directions that make MD more unique.

 

I LOVED when Kragel used to have his quests for making items.  There was a journey, and often support of the other players to finish the item.  The Crafter's Guild pretty much did nothing, then became extinct.  I LOVED that Z used to cause whole groups of people to flock to see Tree.  Those people impacted the game in huge ways that HELPED MD.  Now all we have is power hungry, overpowered people who wish nothing more then to run off anyone who "doesn't see MD their way".  RPCs didn't do that, and in fact often encouraged players to be their own person in the game.  To me, the game became very one sided  about who had the most items, and the most power, and could abuse the most players.  It USED to be about how can we help players become their own role, no matter how ridiculous they seem.

 

We hear DST whine about "unrealisic RP, and RP not done "her" way".  MD was built upon unrealisitc fantasies.  Actually when I first started, it was claimed you can to ANYTHING in MD as long as you put enough effort into it.  Now most people that join MD (the ones I have had a chance to speak with) see the game as most other web based games.  Gain as much as you can, spend what money you have to to be powerful enough to compete, and then leave when people who have nothing better to do with their life then spend it power grinding beat them into stat damage.  Any time they try and do some sort of RP event, unless it falls under DST's distinct flavor for RP, it get disrupted and the players get harassed.

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This looks very attractive and seems the type of thing many people would agree to at first glance, but really when it comes into practice, 90% people are against this. Take the most recent example of me discussing Laby stuff with Mur being highly discouraged by the community, and all kings of wrong assumptions being made.

You and I never had any words on your desires with the laby.  Even if we did, I'd have likely said something like "Are you sure?", "Have you really thought this through?" and things along those lines.  Any words we've shared recently were casual in passing because you were likely with Lintara at the time. (you two make a cute couple) 

 

If you want to do things in and with the laby and you've got the backing of the powers that be, go for it. 

 

Back on topic:

I admit there have been a few times in the past that I've wondered what you saw in someone when you gave them something. Communication is key to helping us all understand.  Even if you came out and said, "Hey, I see some potential in this person.  Give them x months to get it going to see how they do.  Don't jump on their case!"  Not only would that cover you, but it would give that person a time frame to produce results.  It would keep them actively working toward their goal, or they would fail.

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I agree with the RPCs.  They used to keep people *cough* who abused other players in check with their powers.  You never saw flat out harassment of players when Z and others had the powers stop them. 

unfortunatelly, RPCs dissapeared becaused they started being the abusers (some/most of them).

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RPCs disappeared for a number of reasons:

 

1) Some with roles that required interaction with MDers for them to gain something from them became inactive

2) A couple, on gaining status through a particular role, did nothing except sit on their laurels

3) A group of people given immunity by Mur is open to a large amount of criticism, because essentially they can do what they like - as can their closest friends - and nothing can be done about it.

4) The "open line to Mur" criticism. I only saw one person get what they want from Mur to enact things with drastic change in MD for their own personal gain that I particularly disagreed with, however, it was easy (and inaccurate) to make the assumption that everybody was doing this.

5) A couple, and this for me was the biggest factor, started a hate campaign against Mur.. The very person who gave them their powers in the first place. This caused endless arguments and incidents that, in the end, finally destroyed the integrity of a system that a few of us worked very hard in.

 

Though I understand and agree with the concept, phantasm, I disagree with the idea of RPCs and would hate to see that system return. We could vote for new RPCs and that in the wrong hands leads to corruption/nepotism. (Personal note: I remember voting for Marvolo and Burns, Marv I had spoken to a bit, Burns hardly ever.. but there are others that were a lot closer to me that I could have "put in a good word for" if I was inclined to)

There was also the immense pressure on the few of us that were active to do more to compensate for the lack of it in others, that too seemed unfair.

 

TLDR: It is a very bad thing for MD to have a small group of people like this with powers and immunity when they can dictate who else gets power according to their own personal preferences.

 

@No one.. I don't remember any RPC who abused one particular "non powerful" MDer to the point of others thinking of it as bullying. If you can, please state who it was, because in my role I would have been the first to hear of it.

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@No one.. I don't remember any RPC who abused one particular "non powerful" MDer to the point of others thinking of it as bullying. If you can, please state who it was, because in my role I would have been the first to hear of it.

 I will answer for him (although I shouldn't but I think I know what he meant and he can correct me later if I am wrong): by abuser he meant player abusing their powers, not abusing others. Want me to name few of them? Let me start: renavoid attacking everything that moved to get stats (since he could attack any mp level), raven using the dreams to cyber with his lover lady renata, smartalek bringing his friends to drach Cave so they could get huge numbers of drachs, shoeps putting me in a dream for 3 days because I refused to tell him something, same shoeps wiping my personal pages because he didn't like what i wrote in there. Want more?

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dst, I was talking about a different kind of abuse, that which phantasm was referring to in his initial post.

 

Those examples of ability / power abuse are valid and true, any of those that are an abuse of power and the regulations attached to them can be added to my list of why I don't want RPCs back.

 

There are more concepts of abuse than just "what I can do within the regulations with the powers I earnt". If all I consider in these discussions is simply power and don't consider how it affects other people, if I think as MD as simply "a game" and rely on clicks and nice words to the right people to progress, then MD ceases to be "Magicduel" and simply becomes "Duel", a glorified chat box where people fight over who should have the last piece of candy.

 

We need to put the "magic" back in magicduel.

What do I mean by that? In answer to that I will speak to DD with some advice: Look within. Be true to yourself. The only true powers you need are the ones you already have. Use them with (or even without) the true powers of others to create something wonderful.

 

(I want to state right here, that I have NO personal issue with dst. She has long been a good and trusted friend, and I admire and appreciate all the hard work she has done and the dedication to which she plays her role. I am simply stating something I am concerned about in relation to MD as a whole).

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Heh.. And I was worried about the Morbidity meeting I have tomorrow.

 

Two questions.

1) There have been multiple "What do we do to make MD better?" or "What should we blame for MD's lack of Activity?" Threads so far. What percentage have gone ahead without blaming another person?

2) And what percentage of the responses in the "I want your opinion regarding my behavior/ideas" threads have been taken constructively without any grudges or getting hurt?

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This post is ranty, enter at your own risk.

 

What's wrong with MD? There's not enough damn fun. Fang is certainly going in a better direction than the likes of some people who prefer ruining the fun of others.

 

What did the RPCs do? They created fun!

 

What was the Shade War? FUN!

 

We need some fun. I think Seedwalks are fun so I do those. MD is a game that I play for fun. Maybe you stopped having fun a long time ago, but fun doesn't come on a silver platter. You need to find fun, look for it. There's a door somewhere leading to fun. For Cutler fun often involved creating puzzle quests, for AmberRune it might involve solving quests, darkraptor also makes some nice clicky quests. Find something that's fun for at least one person other than yourself and DO THAT THING. If you must run fun, just make sure that there's more people benefiting from the ruination of fun than people whose fun is being ruined. And no, you don't count as two people no matter who you are. Everybody is exactly one person. Two alts of the same player still count as one HUMAN BEING.

 

tl;dr have fun and don't be a huge dickface when you do it

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I am relatively new to MD, but I would like to give feedback on the topic of FUN. ( I don't want to be pulled into the drama that errupted recently.)

 

As a new player I am having fun. Mostly exploration, general questing and RP with people I meet. 

Maybe the veterans here reached a point called "end game content". It is the point where people start to get bored. They played this game for too long and are starting to burn out. So making MD better sounds like "how do we add more end game content" to me. I'm not saying that there is no room for improvement, but new players have a lot of things to do and catch up to the old ones. The problem you are having only applies to the veterans (well, some of you).

 

This is just an opinion of a newbie, just to add a different view on things. Take it as you will.

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