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Chewett

What does the fall of GoTR mean to you personally?

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I be the councils mule:

 

[cquote]Please detail what the fall of GoTR means to you personally. We are trying to see how GoTR is different from any other alliance. Is it just a place to gain LR loyalty or is there activity within it? Mya has stated there is plans were plans for activity "soon" but as we have not seen it we cannot comment. What changes for you now its gone and why should It come back? These reasons are on a personal level and not sweeping statements of things like "It should come back because its a main alliance". However anyone that wishs to reason on a precedent level that it should be returned is welcome to do so.[/cquote]

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Precedent:

When Ravenstrider disbanded the Necrovion sentinels, Jester had an option to revive them by spending one trust point.

I personally don't think the Council should take 1 trust point off of Mya/whatever, good reasoning can be made as it was called for by the Council, but as a last resort, they should have that option, no?

 

Personal reasons:

Realm without alliances such as the Sentinels and GoTR seems much poorer.

 

Ever since Firsanthalas I was never a fan of what GoTR was doing, but the hope for a better future remains, 

The activities of such 'main' alliances may be dubious, but their presence means something to me as a player, I like the symbolism of the Guerrilla, GoTR, Sentinels, SoE, even though the players somehow don't play as per my imaginary expectations, that includes myself as a SoEr I guess. MD loses a lot without them.

If GoTR goes to slumber, I hope it will come back one day stronger, although different than what was till now.

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I personally think GotR should use this as an opportunity to get some more activity which would lead to its revival.

 

Back in my early days I used to think GotR was the "well-organized mighty Loreroot alliance" who would train people to be like them, etc,  but I was soon greatly disappointed due to many things. One, their complete lack of trust of outsiders when taking recruits. Two, their stubborn attitude not to accept anything or anyone different from them (in other words, someone trying to raise activity and encourage recruitment would be shunned, and being strict and running everyone through numerous tests etc was the "way to go"). From my personal experience, the "tests" made me think its a worthy goal/achievement to get in, but I soon realized there was absolutely nothing GoTR-related going on in Loreroot. This is why I strongly think that if the alliance is ever to come back, it really has to show some activity.

 

I'll end by saying again that this is a perfect opportunity to show "Loreroot love for GoTR" which may lead to the alliance's revival.

Edited by DARK DEMON

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This is indeed an oppertunity for Loreroot

the badge became nothing more but a badge.

but if what is said is correct and the GotR have plans to reform and bring "more" to the alliance then i encourage them fullheartedly

i will assist them if they will accept my help but i shall not join them 

 

i think the alliance should be able to be revived if there has been enough effort shown that the Rootians still care for it

yes, as many of you assume, i was part of their fall

and yet here i state that they can count on my help on reviving it, i had no intention to "kill" it, i had the idea that sometimes dead ideas need a revival to work again

 

if Loreroot shows it can be a unified land that works for a goal it will come out of this much stronger than before

Lorerootians can curse me now, but i hope they can thank me later, i dont mind being the evil guy if it pays off in the end

"and a leader shall lead them" now let's see who can raise the Lorerootians under his/her banner and lead them back to glory

good luck and i hope to see the guardians back soon (and not "soon")

 

precedent:

the CoE could be revived under the same conditions: enough activity and support

 

 

@Rophs: depletion is more for the Silvan watch, and it can't be stopped anyway currently, so that would be a senseless purpose

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I will be the odd one out (so far) and say that the alliance must not be revived.

 

Just about -any- alliance currently out there can fall under the "but they're not doing anything" accusation. The only "thematic" event I've recently seen (though again, it might be my memory failing me) was the slave auction, which does indeed seem very necrovian, but even so, it was organised by Necro as a whole (I believe) rather than explicitly by the Tainted Warriors. If I am wrong here, please point it out.

 

@ Sunfire: At any rate, I am monstrously disappointed with you, Sunfire. This may very well be me being rather impulsive right now, and I admit that, but either way, that does not change the fact that this essentially classifies as treason. You were allowed to stay in the GotR on the basis of trust and hope that you would return to the game - at least as far as I am aware. I will say no more on the matter, and I will say no more to -you-, for that matter as well.

 

@Rophs: Possibly, but not really. It should fall under the Woodcutters, as the resources of LR fall under their jurisdiction, both harvesting and guarding, IMO. GotR should be more of a "Loreroot defense" alliance as a whole, as the name suggests, rather than "resource police".

 

Finally, to get to my point. I believe the alliance should stay dead. Why? I have two main reasons, which I will try and argument below.

 

1. People have a general dislike for LR. I could call out names, but again, my memory might fail me and I wouldn't want to point fingers pointlessly. Whether they dislike the land, people within, or there is simply a need for a scapegoat for all the hate in the realm and LR simply happens to be the weakest land and has to take it - that I do not know. There is a certain stigma to LR based on its past, and that is something incredibly difficult to change, even though 90% or more (ass-pulled statistic) of the people currently in LR aren't the one that brought the stigma upon it in the first place. Revival of GotR will not change how people think of LR. At best, there will be more such "tests" until there is nothing left to beat out of LR; there will always be more "tests" and "opinions" as to whom is a legitimate leader or how a LR leader should act, or what LR should and shouldn't do as a whole. I have utterly no reason to prove anything to anyone, and I believe nobody in LR has to justify anything to anyone, for that matter. Thus I strongly believe this has nothing to do with any sort of "opportunity" for LR to prove its activity or whatnot. 

 

2. Whomever (to refrain from calling names that I'm sure people are well aware of) killed the alliance has the possibility of doing it over and over again with little to no effort. It took no more than 4-5 hours, and even if I am wrong, it took no longer than 24 hrs to bring it down. It will take -months- (as I don't believe the Council will be swayed by a 24 hr burst of activity) of effort to bring it back. I don't mean running around when you have -massive- Briskness and passing heat to a protector or fighting or similar activities, which take little involvement or actual effort. This will take coordinating people for activities, which is bloody difficult. Getting a group of more than 3 people to coordinate for something is incredibly difficult, if you take into consideration the gaping timezone difference between most of the former GotR members. Furthermore, the player base is ridiculously low as it is, thus this might just as well be "putting up a show for an empty hall".

There is FAR too much effort to put into reviving the alliance, and it could (and probably will) all be for nothing - months of effort can be brought down in 24 hrs or less. It is not worth it, it is humiliating and demeaning. I haven't got the slightest reason to work just to be brought down for sh*ts and giggles or some other "noble" method of reviving the realm, and I believe all Lorerootians should share that view. I don't think we should bend and struggle to prove ourselves to the community. I don't believe we have any reason to justify anything to anyone, especially regarding internal matters (i.e who our leaders are and how LR alliances conduct themselves).

 

Finally, again, regarding some arguments and conditions that I've seen such as "support" and "activity" which I believe are unachievable, to the extent demanded. There are far too few players currently playing the game. Whatever activity is stirred will probably look very unimpressive, even though it might just as well be the very best possible with the given player base.

 

In the end, I state once more, I believe the alliance should stay dead. If people want it dead, then so be it. I will not work my bum off just to prove myself to someone just because someone arbitrarily decided that GotR is the one alliance out there that is slacking and that really needs to kick up its activity. I believe it should be LR's problem what LR does and if there's anything LR's leaders should stand up for it should be THAT, not doing what outsiders believe LR should do.

 

Major caveat: I am mildly infuriated.

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you are already giving up before you start Aeo

yes the community number is lower, but they consist of vets who know the GotR and it's importance.

 

and yes most allies are not doing what they should do, but i was not in those allies, i did what i could to save mine, even if that meant ending it if necessary

(again i truely hope the GotR gets restored)

if possible i would kindly ask the council/community to look into this and start a conversation about this with the other alliances who are not covering their "role"

or perhaps we should debate wether we should continue without alliances if they are not used what they serve for?

 

and yes, i committed treason, what will Loreroot do now?

i will await Loreroot's judgement

 

"it will take months to bring the ally back"

you have to be a guardian every day to carry that badge

the actions shouldn't stop when the badge is returned, it should be merely a beginning

i know that requires a lot, but only through actions are you recognised

Loreroot has a lot of untapped potential, if you put your minds to it you can do so much...

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Considering that majority of alliances were poofed into existance "just because" or to be "main" alliances. Tell me what exactly you see as their "role"? If we really go down that road of logic then I can pretty much prove that not a single alliance has any purpose, not even SOTIS.

 

By the looks of it Rophs is already on your boat to get rid of them all.

 

I on the other hand don't think that if alliance isn't fulfilling it's "purpose" it should get thrashed. To hell with your imaginary purposes, alliances and citizenships have only ONE purpose in my eyes, to bond people together into certain groups and that purpose is doing very well.

 

While what you said is absolutely true, it sadly cannot be applied to GoTR. There is envy, there is "actionless ambition", and there is lack of unity during a  disagreement. (a perfect example is right here in this thread; conflicting opinions even when deciding what the alliance means to them and how it may be revived). If they can overcome THIS, and do some activity TOGETHER, and show everyone that they DO have a bond, only then will they be revived (the alliance core will, at least, even if the badge is not given).

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@Sunfire:

Considering we've been doing more training under Valoryn than we did under your command says more to his leadership than yours.  He's only had the alliance 2 months.  You "had to leave" because you were too busy.  Remember dumping the festival on Krioni because you had to leave?

 

@Dark Demon:

Just because we didn't jump at every suggestion you made doesn't me we resisted your ideas.  We didn't move fast enough for you.

 

 

In the end, I state once more, I believe the alliance should stay dead. If people want it dead, then so be it. I will not work my bum off just to prove myself to someone just because someone arbitrarily decided that GotR is the one alliance out there that is slacking and that really needs to kick up its activity. I believe it should be LR's problem what LR does and if there's anything LR's leaders should stand up for it should be THAT, not doing what outsiders believe LR should do.

 

Aeo has a point.  I could sit here and point out how little I see other alliances do as well.  In fact, that could be done to the entire realm.  To say that the Guardians are the one that's slacking accurate.  Some of us are in different time zones than the rest of you.  Just because you don't see us doesn't me we aren't doing something.

 

Activity seems to be the trigger word.  First off, if you're looking for activity, why are you saying that an alliance meant for defense needs to be more active.  Why isn't your alliance attacking the Guardians so we can defend?  Your lack of activity is equal if not greater than ours.

 

Defend the herbs.  We had been trying that a while back.  When Mur mentioned something about them changing, we stopped until his changes are made.  Then we'll put new actions into place.

 

Ary Endleg make an excellent point.  The real purpose of an alliance is to bond people together.  To unify them.  Even if we don't "see" each other every day, we as a group are there for each other.  All any of them have to do is reach out, and they are there. 

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@Dark Demon:

Just because we didn't jump at every suggestion you made doesn't me we resisted your ideas.  We didn't move fast enough for you.

 

That was not my point, but there is no reason to start an argument.

 

Edit: Actually, I will speak, since it might just help depending on how you take it.

 

Firstly, "didn't move fast enough for me"? You took almost a year to let me into the Guardians, and were extremely suspicious of me for another few months when I had the badge. Why? Because I was getting too much loyalty and you actually thought I was a spy, or taking over, or whatever. And then we see Valoryn who you completely accept as loyalty leader; a guy who joined Loreroot from one citizenship application in a small period of time and someone who you didn't have "requirements" for. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing to do with Valoryn being a capable leader or not. What I'm trying to say is that such partiality is one of the reasons GoTR managed to be... undervalued (in the nicest terms) by someone like me who once greatly respected it.

 

Secondly, "didn't jump at every suggestion"? Nobody ever helped or supported or even discussed a single suggestion of mine; nobody gave the guidance on "how-to-do-things-the-amazing-LR-way" which you guys are so strict about. Not only this but you refused to accept other ways completely; ways that might have successfully increased activity in Loreroot had you guided them.

 

To end it, I just want to say that mismanagement, partiality, envy, lack of decision-making power, lack of unity during disagreement, etc are things that don't really give GoTR a good impression. Fixing the impression and management might just prevent such "attacks" in the future.

Edited by DARK DEMON

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I be the councils mule:

 

[cquote]Please detail what the fall of GoTR means to you personally. We are trying to see how GoTR is different from any other alliance. Is it just a place to gain LR loyalty or is there activity within it? Mya has stated there is plans were plans for activity "soon" but as we have not seen it we cannot comment. What changes for you now its gone and why should It come back? These reasons are on a personal level and not sweeping statements of things like "It should come back because its a main alliance". However anyone that wishs to reason on a precedent level that it should be returned is welcome to do so.[/cquote]

 

On a personal level, GotR mean little to me.

No offense intended, but I never felt close to Loreroot.

 

On the other hand, we have plenty of inactive or semi-inactive alliances. Some of them were saved from disbanding, others survived without the minimum number of members...

 

Why should GotR or Loreroot follow a different path? 

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Loreroot is seemingly active in their private forum (based on Mya's frequent mood panel posts linking topics I can't read), but that activity apparently didn't translate into in-game action.
 

Everybody thinks Loreroot should show activity to "earn" GotR back, so run a team contest (TC?) and see if they can band together to beat anyone who opposes them.

 

 

Precedent:

When Ravenstrider disbanded the Necrovion sentinels, Jester had an option to revive them by spending one trust point.

I personally don't think the Council should take 1 trust point off of Mya/whatever, good reasoning can be made as it was called for by the Council, but as a last resort, they should have that option, no?

 

Personal reasons:

Realm without alliances such as the Sentinels and GoTR seems much poorer.

 

Ever since Firsanthalas I was never a fan of what GoTR was doing, but the hope for a better future remains, 

The activities of such 'main' alliances may be dubious, but their presence means something to me as a player, I like the symbolism of the Guerrilla, GoTR, Sentinels, SoE, even though the players somehow don't play as per my imaginary expectations, that includes myself as a SoEr I guess. MD loses a lot without them.

If GoTR goes to slumber, I hope it will come back one day stronger, although different than what was till now.

 

Trust points were obsolete the day they were invented, not a good way to trade for the alliance, or anything really. If someone had a valid claim to be Role Leader, it would be different, but I don't see anyone who could be considered as such.

 

Personally, I think the way alliances work needs to be changed completely. Do something totally different like randomly seeding alliances with players, not just leaders but regular members too: Imagine you go to sleep a Necrovion Sentinel and wake up a Knight of the Bell. You could make leadership based on who wins a fight, that way leadership is passed around like a head ball during HC. Make an incentive for being a leader, associate spells or illusions with alliances, give people more power just to see what they do.

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Updates from the discussions (My summary not councils):

 

Without taking this topic into account, the discussions (Mur, Coucil, I) are at the point that it is mostly agreed that the alliance will be returned. Mur is in favour of using the trust points method. There is however still some discussion on the viability of that.

 

From a personal view, it seems like most of this thread dont care for them getting the alliance back and arbitrarily ask for "actions".

 

Defend the herbs.  We had been trying that a while back.  When Mur mentioned something about them changing, we stopped until his changes are made.  Then we'll put new actions into place.

 

As a point for everyone, because apparently even those highest in leadership do not remember, _NEVER_ wait on something Mur has promised. It can take months for something Mur has claimed will happen to happen, if it happens at all. Deal with what there is at the moment and never use an excuse of "We are waiting for X magical change before we do something".  The same goes to me for a lesser extent, What I state something is going to happen, it probably will, but I have periods of extreme business and then relative calm so work time is unpredictable.

Edited by Chewett

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@Aeoshattr: At least, when you try to point fingers do it properly. A major factor that can determine how easy or difficult it is to take over an alliance is the leader's "loyalty"* and, in a lesser extent, whether said leader is on-line and fast enough to react during a take-over attempt. My own loyalty was still low and easy to surpass and I was absent during most of the day it all happened.

 

*I quote the word, because I don't consider actual loyalty to be something that can be measured.

 

 

@DD: You are correct that you have nothing to do with me. You went inactive long before I got the badge and remained inactive through most of my stay in the Guardians, so you don't know if I was just invited because of my charms (<== sarcasm), or I was watched, tested, tortured, beaten to death or whatever before I joined the Guardians. You also left the Guardians before I was put at the helm.

 

If I'm to take decision making lessons, I will gladly accept them but from people who have some skill in the area. To remind you, you were the one asking for your badge back, to change your mind only hours later, to ask for it again the next day, to decide against it once more a few further hours later. So, as a word of advice, next time you question other people's decision making abilities or other skills or lack thereof, look at your own hump first.

 

 

To the topic:

 

GotR may have practically appeared like nothing more than a nicely drawn badge next to my name, with all the benefits that come along with it, but it had an actual significance to me that's still hard to put properly in words: perhaps a bond bringing people together like Ary put it in his post or an extra layer on the bond between people and their land, perhaps even an alliance enhancing my own role in MD as well when speaking on a more personal level.

 

It's very easy to speak about recognition, good impression, showing of activity and other similar things and be eloquent, even poetic, about it as well. It takes a ton of effort behind the scenes, however, to get anything done from the simplest and most mundane thing to the biggest, most extraordinary, realm-wide event or whatever.

 

Personally speaking, I don't consider the leader's position as one of power or glory. It's more of one of responsibility, of endless hours of thankless work and the one that gets all the thrashing and beating when "nothing is happening" as far as an ordinary player is concerned.

 

I don't care about recognition, good impression, popularity, fame, glory and the like. I have done things quietly without advertising them, I still do things, I will keep doing things even if I remain shadowed till after I'm long gone from MD. What matters more to me is whether I like doing them or not, whether my free time (which is currently a luxury I rarely have) is put to good use or just wasted away.

 

Whether other people will pat me on the back or praise my work is nothing I would make a purpose in my life (I'm not unappreciative when it does happen; I just don't live for it) and I don't intend to put whatever effort I have made so far or may make in the future in the service of popularity or fame or in the name of making a good impression.

 

I don't like making promises about grandiose events to be had in the future or this and that kind of activities to be planned "soon" either, because there is always the danger of delivering an absolute nothing in the end lurking in the corner. There are ideas floating about (nothing concrete so far, I admit), but also a lot of mundane but important things that have to be done behind the scenes and will most likely remain unseen.

 

My availability is very limited and it's not expected to change for the better in the foreseeable future. So, any progress made from my part on the GotR revival will be slow and at irregular intervals. But the revival of an alliance isn't and shouldn't become a one-man's-show any way.

 

I also dislike writing walls of text such as this one, but some things needed to be made known publicly.

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From a personal view, it seem like the most of this thread dont care  for them getting the alliance back and arbitrarily  ask for "action".

thank you for poiting this Chew

-This is how lorerootians need to be strong and fight of what we stand for and be one. Like a family  brother and sister help each other.

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Disclaimer: The following post is made by the player behind the characters. This does not represent individual character views. It is a mixture and contains similar views to the characters. For the characters are an extension of myself that has been exaggerated and the characters allow me to experience things that I would otherwise not be able to experience.

 

 

After reading through what people have said and what I have seen over time.... It is a bit disappointing. It will be a bit hard to explain this. I will try to walk through all my thoughts and ideas.

 

I do not have problems with alliances being taken over and think that change/chaos can be the push for growth. However, I disagree with destroying an alliance. I do not know the personal history of what has happened in MD in my 3 1/2 year absence. Things have changed that took me by surprise. One of the things that took me most by surprise is not just the low population in md... but the missing spark. The living spark of those still popping in to md. People want to point fingers saying that this person is not doing enough to make the land active or alliance active. That is just shifting the responsibility of what is going on within md. 

 

Events have been held, quests made, rping is being done, battles between creatures... The participation in these are low... sometimes it is due to timezones, rl problems, or overall lack of interest. It is individuals that make md what it is.

 

There are more features in md now than when I first started playing. I fell in love with MD not because of being able to cast spells, have items, battle with creatures, join an alliance, or because of the art work. (All big things that make MD unique, interesting, and fun. And nice features.). It was the community that drew me and captured me. The thought and hard work put into MD. The twists and turns that MD can take.

 

Before I found md I played Battle Magica, it was a unique game. I watched that game die and are still one of the few that pop back in to just see if any of the other vets still visit. So once I find a community of people I like... I stick with them. 

 

I do not wish MagicDuel to follow in that path. To dismantle an alliance whos members log in, hold events, rp, and so on... Is taking another spark from MD. It may cause a wildfire or it may just send up a final puff of smoke.

 

All the lands have alliances that are not very 'active' or do not appear to be 'active'. By holding this expectation solely the GotR is very bias. It is easy to destroy/break something, but harder to rebuild it.

 

I do not think this will destroy the GotR and honestly as long as there is still unity among Lorerootians an alliance is not truely needed. But that goes for any land and alliance.

 

I am not disappointed with the alliance takeover, but more with the reactions of others that I have seen. Easy to shift the blame to others for the failure of the alliance versus taking responsibility for our own roles in it. 

 

I am not active as Legna and so my participation in loyalty to Loreroot is low and I have not been of much help to keep up appearances of Loreroot being active.  But the thing is... people should not have to put up the appearance of something. I have learned that just because you do not see it, does not mean it is not happening.

 

If you want activity or something to change to what you envision it being. Then step up and do so. Change it by being what it is you want changed about it. If you want a land to be stronger, then be the backbone of that land. Be the energy force pushing it forward. Keep up communication with others from that land/alliance.

 

One of the things I love most about MD, is that the meaning of the realm depends on everybody. The story constantly changes based on OUR decisions. If a land decides to go to war then they can make that choice. If a person wants to be a leader for a land they can strive for that goal. If a person just wants to go around picking flowers then they can do so. There are certain elements that is solid, principles that guide the game, and game mechanics that can limit certain things. But this is where the imagination and will can alter what happens.

 

To sum all this up, I do not think the GotR should be dismantled. For to do so might break the foundational meaning of why alliances even exist in the first place. If you want activity then do something, if you want change be the change and do not expect others to do it for you.

 

I admit there have been times that I too have blamed things on lack of activity or felt that something was not changing quick enough. Or thinking back to the old days and comparing it to present time. I have tried to let go of such thinking and move forward with the times presented to me now. Not to make it like times of the past but to create something new. To strive forward building on what was.

 

 

I hope that I have not bored you all with my ramblings and if you survived to the end. Thank you for your patience.

 

Regards,

 

Angel

The player behind Assira, Legna, and Hiria.

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Though gems atop a crown may crack,

  and fall from crusted head,

the crown remains, the jewels reshaped,

  in winter Trees aren't dead.

 

Those are my thoughts.  With all the layers you read into those words.  Whatever you see, it's true.

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