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Sunfire

your idea to better MD

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As you have read in ann 2870 im collecting ideas to improve Magicduel

Ive received a few already and ill list them here
you can still forward me your ideas by forumpm untill Jan 16th 23:59:59 ST
after that a selection will be made of the ideas to discuss them
if you cant hold yourself to discuss it, open a separate topic
the endgoal is to present at least one decently worked out idea by February
if it is doable and approved it might be implemented
Ill add your name to the idea when i have your approval and your mp

The list:
1) wild creatures, these will be NPCs of varying strength, traveling around to both promote exploring as help lower mps find more targets, these would respawn on a regular basis
(Mp 3)

2) a buddy mentoring system where each young player has someone looking over him more personally, so each mentor will only have few students unlike protectors
(Mp 4)

3) prolong idle mode to 8 or more hoursto increase targets
(Mp 5)

4) introducing a real warmechanism
(Mp 5)

5) classlike system of fighting, no mps, level decided by stats and combatknowledge
(Mp 5)

6) gradual implementatioon of viscosity on new players
(Sunfire mp 5)

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If the wild creatures are implemented at mp3 it might be wise to implement them at mp4, but less of them. There aren't always mp4 around to fight either, and joining an ally isn't something a fresh mp4 would usually want to or be able to do.

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5) classlike system of fighting, no mps, level decided by stats and combatknowledge

How do you plan on dividing players based on combat knowledge?

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How do you plan on dividing players based on combat knowledge?


By their won/loss ratio
honor would had to be reworked in this idea to be calculated to the relative distance between the players so grinders wouldnt benefit from attacking new players

(can a mod split this from the topic)

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Maybe they wouldn't benefit in honor system, but the grinders would benefit in getting wins for creatures off younger players, plus, there can always be someone enjoying a sadistic character of their MD account, molesting newbies for sports.

Though attractive a bit, it doesn't sound worked out, can you go in details why would it be better than the current system, how can it limit its flaws?

Edited by Rhaegar Targaryen

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When reaching too much neg honor you dont gain anything.
Maybe additional skilldam can be put on the attacker with too much neg honor when attacking another player that should give him neg honor

as to why its better, it would bring the challenge back to fighting
When reaching too much neg honor you dont gain anything.
Maybe additional skilldam can be put on the attacker with too much neg honor when attacking another player that should give him neg honor
many fights are now decided by stats rather than skill

Maybe a new thing could be added making it impossible to attack someone if he gives you over -X neg honor

of course alliance people could still freely attack eachother if the loyalty system stays the same Edited by Sunfire

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of course alliance people could still freely attack eachother if the loyalty system stays the same

I remember reading something MD related about "possibly giving non combat allies more stats, but then fighters would just join those allies for the stats". Perhaps ally memebrs may freely attack people in fighting-oriented allies (GotR, GG, KoB, NC?) and honor system would be used to attack resource guilds and other noncombat allies (Woodcutters, Dowsers, Fusioneers)

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I had specific ideas for the combat that i need to fully write up the idea and talk to the combat first. Dst yim me if interested.

Until then fell free to discuss the idea but don't come to conclusions about what I'm planning :p

While the above idea is essentially what I proposed I have some things to take into account after talking with Mur and all changes will be ran through the public for discussion first (and before that people that actually fight)

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These ideas about fighting are so cute and fun (and wrong).

Can ANYONE split this to another topic so that I can reply to it while staying on topic ?

 

[spoiler]

Dst yim me if interested.
 

[/spoiler]

I know that Mur did stuff like that and HC might do it the same way. But you ? Shame on you !

Edited by No one

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Why? I haven't yet fully written out the idea and don't specifically want to publicize it until it's ready in my opinion. However there are a number of people I would like to discuss the idea with first, you being one of them no one if you would stop being so hostile towards me. I don't know why you are doing this.

The whole point of not writing it all publicly is that there are issues with it. I don't see a point of you picking apart an idea that isn't even sensible lol
It would be a waste of all our time.

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Pfiew, this is a long post. Sorry.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, if you want all the replies on same topic ... here it is :

[spoiler]

The list:
1) wild creatures, these will be NPCs of varying strength, traveling around to both promote exploring as help lower mps find more targets, these would respawn on a regular basis
(Mp 3)

2) a buddy mentoring system where each young player has someone looking over him more personally, so each mentor will only have few students unlike protectors
(Mp 4)

3) prolong idle mode to 8 or more hoursto increase targets
(Mp 5)

4) introducing a real warmechanism
(Mp 5)

5) classlike system of fighting, no mps, level decided by stats and combatknowledge
(Mp 5)

6) gradual implementatioon of viscosity on new players
(Sunfire mp 5)

[/spoiler]

Here are my answers to "The list"

1. "wild creatures / NPCs" are enough as they are right now ; and the idea was disregarded in the past due to lack of / to encourage interaction between the ppl of MD.

2. "buddy mentoring system" ... see the "Your progress for today" page and look for "Here you can change who you are the adept of:". There is nothing one can do in programming to enforce the system you'd like. If you think something can be coded ... please write some as I can't think of anything right now.

Also : Mentoring require interaction between a master and a pupil. Having as master a RP-er, you'll learn to RP; having as master a master fighter you will learn to fight but only if you ask. Knowledge is required but not enforced in this game.

3. "8h idle more" , useless. There are not enough ppl that like to be clobbered for 6h not to say 8. You'll notice that most MP5 are either scattered all over the realm or idling in sanctuaries.

(Ppl learn by MP5 the usefulness of sanctuaries and the consequences of not using it)

Also, you should talk with RP-ers that preach to new players to stay at low MP due to MP5 pummeling.

4. "real war mechanism". Please give more details on this subject.

5. "classlike system of fighting" . Please give more detail on this subject.

I think that you could achieve this by using specific illusions . It would require lots of work. Lets hear what you meant by this subject.

(I added some lines below that could be related to the light of discussions triggered by this proposal of yours. You should read that too before answering.)

6. "gradual viscosity on new players" is in opposition to viscosity concept.

The viscosity was conceived to keep ppl together at first and with age to give then the ability / capability to travel

and it was designed specifically for new players to keep them from experiencing the entire realm too fast

 

That is all I could reply for the moment to 1st post of Sunfire.

 

 

[spoiler]

5) classlike system of fighting, no mps, level decided by stats and combat knowledge
(Mp 5)

How do you plan on dividing players based on combat knowledge?

By their won/loss ratio
honor would had to be reworked in this idea to be calculated to the relative distance between the players so grinders wouldnt benefit from attacking new players

(can a mod split this from the topic)

Maybe they wouldn't benefit in honor system, but the grinders would benefit in getting wins for creatures off younger players, plus, there can always be someone enjoying a sadistic character of their MD account, molesting newbies for sports.

Though attractive a bit, it doesn't sound worked out, can you go in details why would it be better than the current system, how can it limit its flaws?

When reaching too much neg honor you dont gain anything.
Maybe additional skilldam can be put on the attacker with too much neg honor when attacking another player that should give him neg honor

as to why its better, it would bring the challenge back to fighting
When reaching too much neg honor you dont gain anything.
Maybe additional skilldam can be put on the attacker with too much neg honor when attacking another player that should give him neg honor
many fights are now decided by stats rather than skill

Maybe a new thing could be added making it impossible to attack someone if he gives you over -X neg honor

of course alliance people could still freely attack eachother if the loyalty system stays the same

[/spoiler]

 

As of my knowledge there is no way to split the players by won/loss ratio.

I know that you might say that if you have lots of loses it is because you're a noob but it is not true.

You will notice that true grinders have a great imbalance in order to enjoy the "younger players".

 

Also, splitting them by number of wins is also not very useful (again due to a feature not to be spoiled here) that will prevent the increase of number of wins/loses.

 

Also, giving an advantage to those with low honor skill damage is not fair. There are many that want to be there, due to the availability of targets and laziness and careless play.

It is not fair for one to be penalized because others that don't want to learn or want to play like that. (you will find "sadistic" players that would go there on purpose just to hurt others)

 

This is stupid : "Maybe a new thing could be added making it impossible to attack someone if he gives you over -X neg honor"

There is already a restriction for this. If you would try to get balanced, which i guess you didn't , you will NOT attack ppl witch give you neg honor. You know why, because, as you said "When reaching too much neg honor you dont gain anything." .

 

So ... your request doesn't stand.

Also, if you do attack someone witch give you high neg honor , you are already penalized (but if you do attack, you accept this penalty) , so ... why should you get penalized even more ?

 

But if you do want a better solution, you should know that incentives work better then punishments. My counter proposal ("incentive proposal") to you is like this :

1. when attacking one on "skill damage" range, you should get a warning in red (i think this is already implemented)

2. if defending and losing to a player in "skill damage" range, you should also get some stats as incentive (never no more then 0.01 on same stats as the attacker gets)

3. while attacking a player in "skill damage" range, if notified before (see point 1) you should get only half the stats but the one with skill damage should still lose them as they do right now.

 

Having implemented the above, if ppl are still lazy to get above the -1000 loses ... then there is nothing you can implement to help them.

 

Again: if you have ideas that could be implemented to help them (but not to hinder the real players) then .. please post them. I'd like to know them myself.

 

Edit: fixing some numbers & typos

Edited by No one

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I have always said there were not enough NPC battles and I still feel this way. The only interactions that we have from not having them are mainly people attacking and then running away, or two people allowing the others to train on them. I don't honestly feel that having more npc's will have any negative affect on the interactions of other players.

 

I personally would like to see more quests using clickies such as Maebius' quest A riddle, of sorts, etc. I would also like to see something done with the newly implemented clickies like the telescope. Maybe having some kind of mini-game where you have a few set's of random stars with hidden constellations inside and the player must figure out which constellation is being dipicted in that scene. Then upon giving the correct answer to all of the riddles is awarded some type of prize.

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I personally would like to see more quests using clickies such as Maebius' quest A riddle, of sorts, etc. I would also like to see something done with the newly implemented clickies like the telescope. Maybe having some kind of mini-game where you have a few set's of random stars with hidden constellations inside and the player must figure out which constellation is being dipicted in that scene. Then upon giving the correct answer to all of the riddles is awarded some type of prize.


I will implement the rewards if people will make the quests. Give us a month and a couple people should have some permanent quests, Wheels are in motion in that regard. :D

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I personally would like to see more quests using clickies such as Maebius' quest A riddle, of sorts, etc. I would also like to see something done with the newly implemented clickies like the telescope. Maybe having some kind of mini-game where you have a few set's of random stars with hidden constellations inside and the player must figure out which constellation is being dipicted in that scene. Then upon giving the correct answer to all of the riddles is awarded some type of prize.

 

You said you can code. What are you waiting for?

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I have always said there were not enough NPC battles and I still feel this way. The only interactions that we have from not having them are mainly people attacking and then running away, or two people allowing the others to train on them. I don't honestly feel that having more npc's will have any negative affect on the interactions of other players.

 

I strongly believe that such behavior is due to common conception from all the other games where you train on NPCs and you PVP for ranking. In MD there is no such thing training and intentionally damaging somebody (be it in order to inflict skilldamage or to wipe out vitality from new player who can't regen or be it to fullfil kill contract) is the in one and the same way, PVP. Mainly mindset of players is the problem and that's why they run away in low levels but only if they refuse to interact with others and learn. Honor system, balance and win-loss ratio is the problem for mindset and doesn't actually make sense. For new player it all is weird, first question that pops up is why win-loss ratio and honor have anything to do with training. Such stuff confuse new players. They don't see difference between training and competition, afterall there is thin line between it.

 

I don't think that giving more npcs would be blissful idea, things as they are don't even allow beating same npc twice. As much as I see there was this idea before in MD and Empty Aramors and Tiny Men were made as MP2 npcs and I don't think reviving this concept would be good idea. Due to how whole combat is at the moment I still think there really should be 3 separate MP levels in which players would learn combat step by step, currently each of 3 mp levels give specific and different challenges and focuses. Problem is this demands population, MD doesn't have population to satisfy the needs for which this sort of system was built. The whole point of this all was to have decent amount of players at same level of knowledge and strength, something... which would demand 10 levels nowdays and playerbase of 500+ players.

 

In my mind, what ever is currently done with combat is a big bite to chew on and it wouldn't solve much. I would leave it as it is and shift focus to something else like improving inventory, volition, allowing people to make items, make gathering more available, do that quest thingy that Mur is working on now. I just think that fixing or redesigning combat at this moment just isn't worth the time nor effort. I would enjoy the game much more if it would allow RP to be much more integrated with all the custom items and quests rather than have combat fixed. More integrated RP beats perfect combat system any day in my opinion.

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4. "real war mechanism". Please give more details on this subject.

 

 

Seeing as I don't code or anything I didn't know what was feasible. What I have in mind though is a system where whoever is 'in charge' of the land could set up a poll open to citizens in order to declare war (or should they be a crazy dictator just declare war on their own :P) Not sure what the consequences of this would be, maybe skilldamage against citizens of the opposing land, maybe 'spreading' their influence somehow to take over a scene? Overthrowing and overtaking alliances? Imprisoning the opposing side in their own jail (sounds fun)? I just want to see another war :P

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Seeing as I don't code or anything I didn't know what was feasible. What I have in mind though is a system where whoever is 'in charge' of the land could set up a poll open to citizens in order to declare war (or should they be a crazy dictator just declare war on their own :P) Not sure what the consequences of this would be, maybe skilldamage against citizens of the opposing land, maybe 'spreading' their influence somehow to take over a scene? Overthrowing and overtaking alliances? Imprisoning the opposing side in their own jail (sounds fun)? I just want to see another war :P


What about the fact that MB and NC has valid reasons for a war, and it was all likely to happen (including have a Torch Contest) and since no one wanted it, it didnt happen and they just made peace?

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Well then that is a bit of a disappointment, isn't it?  :(  Maybe if there was more loot or incentive than just the TC (which IIRC was imbalanced due to MB being... MB) it might happen someday :)

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Well then that is a bit of a disappointment, isn't it?  :(  Maybe if there was more loot or incentive than just the TC (which IIRC was imbalanced due to MB being... MB) it might happen someday :)


There were plans to make it more even sided, But they didnt occur since there was no war. Alas the plans can be used later.

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(sorry if im slow to respond but im without pc and otherwise occupied)

 

more ideas (as they were passed down to me):

 

I have an idea about a montly ”event” day: something like ”day of the tree”. basically, on that day there will be no collecting of herbs and lumber, but everyone who wants to, can visit the community garden house, click on it and give up, say, 10% of their AP. one click per person per day. each click increases the regen of the resource by a tiny percent. 
as i understand it, this will not help much except for locations with a high number (for example, 100 herbs), but its more of a ”community”day, just like volunteers are planting trees in real life.
(Mp4)
 
My idea to make MD a better place to be is: Resoursce sacrificing.  :D
It's just the same as sacrificing with creatures. You get stats per resource that you sacrifice. This could be the fighting skills, maybe volition, and also to get some extra max VP(like from an expansive resource) or max vitality. I would say to make new points at which you sacrifice resources, prefereble deeper in a land. So that you have some advantages when you are in a certain land. And that players are more walking around in MD. Each different resource sacrifice altar will give bonusses to certain skills. Like when you get 0.01 attack per resource, you will get 0.02 attack per resource at one of the altars.
I believe that this would make the realm more active, since there is actually a good reason to collect resources. Lands will get more active at defending their resources. And there will be more tool/resource tradings across the lands.
Better idea, instead of you getting volition from some resources. You must use volition to sacrifice resources. More walking activity
(Mp 5)
Edited by Sunfire

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