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since i kind of started this fuss i guess i can at least apologize for acting as spark and speak my opinion on this, even though people will most likely frown at it and it could act like adding more firewood to fire


personally i really dislike that information on mechanics isnt documented in public places and i dont understand why it is considered spoiler. its not like we are talking about some game secrets like sign at fields of abandonment for example, what is the best ritual combination for something also isnt question. things like that i think are spoilers and should stay marked as such. but information on how things really work should be available to public


if those things arent documented, whats the refering point of how it was meant to work? if player has no available info on how something works and he experiments and finds out how it works, and then later he gets punished because developers were accidently checking some code and found out that wasnt how it was meant to work. that player didnt even assume it was a bug and when he looked up about something there was nothing to find and everybody was yelling SPOILER to him. in my mind things like this prevent fluent communication between players and developers and i have never ever seen any game to not reveal such basic information on purpose. if they have manpower to write documentation they do it otherwise they answer it when asked on forums, but no other game ever witheld such type of information on purpose.


game mysteries are just that, mysteries, secrets or how ever you want to call them, same goes for unseen things and places. how to combine workings of games technical aspect are there to be worked out on individual basis too, but basic stuff on how things work should be known. imagine if company ships out machine to customer and says its up to you to figure out on your own how we made it to work, that would be just plain wrong. company needs to provide information on how their product works, its up to customers if they see that they could combine more basic functions of that machine to do something more advanced or something more creative than it was originally made for and yet it is capable of doing


you might call it baby spoon feeding, but to me it looks like you are trying to teach people how to crawl and unwilling to go any further

i asked if stat damage can bring stats into negative (and you say i should try it on my own) then i asked if negative honor gain is capped like positive one on 400 honor. things that arent documented in enough details but which are basic workings of game, its not like i asked how stat gains are calculated which is obviously intended to be kept hidden. but questions on how skilldamage stat works like and how honor works like to me look like things in the game that didnt received full documentation. if you look it up you will see a page where "all" stats are explained fully how they work and at end it says "more to come". so i am not allowed to ask around and be told how it works because according to you its spoiler? same goes for honor not being fully documented because according to announcements i have seen changes being done to it few times so i guess thats the reason and documentation on it is probably since it was made



at the end of day it falls down to what i think is spoiler or not and what old experienced lho thinks its spoiler or not. i obviously cant speak on / dont know what is or isnt spoiler, but what about you? tell me this then, what according to you is spoiler and what isnt? is it clearly defined anywhere? show me

Edited by Ary Endleg
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I wrote a load and it broke...

Long story short, some things are universally considered spoilers (beating LR guards) and some things arnt. What is considered a spoiler now may not always (see Burst, back in my day it was a uber uber secret only the best fighters knew of, because of how you get it).

I liked MD when people were encouraged to try, and not as you are doing, ask how it works. In my view it made better fighters as they would know how to test things and try things since they had to do a lot more testing and playing around to see how to do something. But thats only my view.

See what grido says, then people can discuss it. Really Mur should probably make a comment also.

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yes i agree with loreroot guards, figuring out tactics and strategies. there no problem with such things to find out what works the best against what or in which circumstances, but withelding basic information is problem. i am pretty sure that nobody is willing to go down the way to lose all of their stats with stat damage just to see if it will go into negative or not

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yes i agree with loreroot guards, figuring out tactics and strategies. there no problem with such things to find out what works the best against what or in which circumstances, but withelding basic information is problem. i am pretty sure that nobody is willing to go down the way to lose all of their stats with stat damage just to see if it will go into negative or not


This is the point I wanted to bring up but was too laze to write... :P


LHO's should be given freedom to decide what's a spoiler or not, for themselves, after all they have earned that responsibility. They would know what's fit to be told and what's not, at the moment when the question is being asked. If the LHO's are forced to say "Sorry, that's a spoiler. Try to figure out yourself and if you can't, I may give a hint" all the time, what's so hard about saying that? Anyone can do that, if they have solved the same thing before. So are LHO's no different from normal people as far as "teaching" goes?


And then again, there are many different ways people interpret "teaching". Some would say that you ask questions to make someone realize the answer, some would say that you give them direct answers, etc. What really matters is that people should realize why an LHO has acted to teach the way he/she has. If there's a reason he has not considered something a spoiler, I do think that no one has the right to say "no but that's still a spoiler since everyone says so and the old players also worked hard for it and not by spoilers and bla bla bla". After all, an LHO interacting with someone new would know how that person likes to learn.

Edited by DARK DEMON
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A very good point DD. I think that LHO's should be given some form of leeway in deciding what is a spoiler, but again. As i said above this should be decided on by Grido and approved by the LHO's in general. Nim can you add all the Moderators including me into the conversation with grido, assuming its on the forum.

Again, i would move these discussions into a new thread DD so it can be more openly discussed.

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As for leeway on deciding what is a spoiler, as I've just said in the separate discussion with the LHOs I fully accept and embrace this, after all it's pretty much what I do each time a potential spoilery thing comes up, it stands to reason for that to extend to them.


My general view is that a person should be led towards answers, rather than being told them, by pointing at specific help pages, forum threads, announcements, whathaveyou. When it's a question like what the minimum Honour you can go to, I would indeed tell the player that answer, but would then extend it with a help doc or such to help expand their understanding of it.


I will probably add more to this thread later, but I'm heading off in a car shortly so best to get some posted now.

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