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Shemhazaj

HC crisis.

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[color=#808080][i]over 2 weeks have passed since the HC started.[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]The MindPower V scoreboard leader reached score of 388 (atm of writing this) and he's got it mostly by idling.[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]The only person who was competing resigned "because mean people were stealing his heads" (paraphrase, not an exact quote).[/i][/color]

[url="http://magicduel.com/sitegizmo/trophycontest.php"]Scoreboard[/url]

[color=#808080][i]Perhaps it is time to change the HC again? Or has it outlived it's purpose?[/i][/color] Edited by Shemhazaj

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A random thought I had was maybe make something like a trigger box, and when you want to compete in a HC, you trick the box. Once X amount of boxer are ticked (and with that X amount of people wanting to do HC) a HC would start.

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I stopped trying to compete, due to the BHC running at the same time. And got fed up a long time ago of people who won, and are using the BHC to steal heads and log of all the time. Previous HC was worse. With people using Alts to steal heads and log of each time someone got 30 or more heads. People can say HC is unfair. I don't really care about that. But it just ruins all he fun of the HC.

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[quote name='Tal' timestamp='1360670932' post='132510']
I stopped trying to compete, due to the BHC running at the same time. And got fed up a long time ago of people who won, and are using the BHC to steal heads and log of all the time. Previous HC was worse. With people using Alts to steal heads and log of each time someone got 30 or more heads. People can say HC is unfair. I don't really care about that. But it just ruins all he fun of the HC.
[/quote]
Oh! Like you were gathering heads seriously before bhc happened. Atleast DD (No matter how much he whined bout it) put in a little effort to collect the heads and stay put with it. What did you do? Idle? Lol. Thats hardly how you play heads. Also, i had to cast a mirror rit to win against your defence to steal the heads. I'm that weak. Also, i didnt do the logout thing till recently when DD said i was incapable of helping people to show what I could do if i really wanted to be mean and wanted to bully people. All that with a non damage rit on defence. You should just say that you cant put in that much time and effort because your RL has more pressing issues. Thats a perfectly respectable and acceptable reason. But you had to blame bhc for it. Lovely.

P.S. - i softened DD's words. ;)

Edited by Nimrodel

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[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Fine, I admit I whined about it, etc. But that never made me quit.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]What made me quit was a bug which decreased score+heads wherever you went, and this lasted for many hours.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I've stated this before numerous times.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]It decreased my score from well above 2k to 400, and then I stopped caring.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Nim, I know this is kinda irrelevant, but I never blamed it on BHC. I just suggested that BHC should not be held at the same time cause it was one of the reasons, not the only reason. Maybe I could have still won, or for that matter, maybe I can still win if I put loads of effort. But the bugged HC doesn't encourage me to :([/color][/font]

Edited by DARK DEMON

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[quote name='DARK DEMON' timestamp='1360673598' post='132513']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Fine, I admit I whined about it, etc. But that never made me quit.[/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]What made me quit was a bug which decreased score+heads wherever you went, and this lasted for many hours.[/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I've stated this before numerous times.[/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]It decreased my score from well above 2k to 400, and then I stopped caring.[/color][/font]
[/quote]

[color=#808080][i]Exactly my point. One competitor, bug (there always were bugs in HC) makes him lose 1/4th of points needed to reach Stage II and he quits.[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]Hardly a COMPETITION worth holding, isn't it?[/i][/color]

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[quote name='DARK DEMON' timestamp='1360673598' post='132513']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]What made me quit was a bug which decreased score+heads wherever you went, and this lasted for many hours.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I've stated this before numerous times.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]It decreased my score from well above 2k to 400, and then I stopped caring.[/color][/font]
[/quote]

No bug report. No Bug.

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[quote name='DARK DEMON' timestamp='1360673598' post='132513']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Fine, I admit I whined about it, etc. But that never made me quit.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]What made me quit was a bug which decreased score+heads wherever you went, and this lasted for many hours.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I've stated this before numerous times.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]It decreased my score from well above 2k to 400, and then I stopped caring.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Nim, I know this is kinda irrelevant, but I never blamed it on BHC. I just suggested that BHC should not be held at the same time cause it was one of the reasons, not the only reason. Maybe I could have still won, or for that matter, maybe I can still win if I put loads of effort. But the bugged HC doesn't encourage me to :([/color][/font]
[/quote]
You blind silly man! I was talking bout Tal, not you, when i was reffering to the blaming on bhc.. I even appreciated your attempt. --
There will be bugs in the hc till the whole system is reworked upon. Again i say, be glad you arent competing prior to the major modifications...

Edited by Nimrodel

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[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Apart from that, there are many reasons why I'd definitely agree to changing HC:[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]1) Since I joined MD, people have only been winning by hiding idling. Firstly, it's boring for those players, cause there's no action at all. Just sacrificing a few days which could have been put to better use.[/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]2) As Chew said, the reason HC was tweaked was to force people (who wanted to win) to stay online. This didn't work. [/color][/font]
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]3) I've seen many get frustrated cause they can't cast spells. They would have tolerated had there actually been competition, but since HC is so meaningless, it's as if they're being deprived of these spells for a long time until HC ends, for no reason.[/color][/font]

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Short term solution:
End this HC, trigger stage two manually like i did last time
Halt all future HC's for now, this will let MRAlyon's BHC's to run unhindered for a period of time

Long term solution:
Change HC in some way, further discussions

If people think this is a good idea we can propose it to council, but i am likely to ask council if i may do the first point of the short term one, like last time, soon eitherway. Edited by Chewett

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I agree with both Chewett's solutions.

I think the short term one should be implemented as soon as possible in order to end this edition and to allow BHC and related events to display their potential.

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The problem I see in general here isn't just HC per se. It's the lack of active people who are interested in fighting.

Take less new players who stay, add that quite a few choose to delay going to mp5 by now (it did not use to be like that), mix in HC being held too often- result, nobody competes in HC anymore.

Combat in general might need an overhaul, too. The first combat I experienced used to be more strategic than it is now- there were some people with things like 6 drachorns (RJ, MRD, etc), but those were the minority, and even then you had chances to actually defeat them.

By now? [b]Hell, drachorns are retardedly common in comparison.[/b] It pains me to say it, but even when Indyra held that role to preserve the rarity, she never spoke up once that I know of. (It may have happened in private, but I really disagree with how commonized the drachorn has become)

Rustgolds are like 4gc each. [b]That's 51 credits we talk about to get it, and it's only 4gc?[/b] Reindrachs are common as well now.

[b]Tokens and now especially stats once more break everything. [/b]Tokens are like the drug you get to be instantly strong relatively, until the person who grinds enough (and by that I mean [b]pays[/b] enough and uses enough shop resets and statbooster items after having grinded stats for long enough) comes by and wipes you out. There is strategies against it, but..everything only can go so far. Generally, you tend to lose more than you win.

Morphs also stack upon the tradition of some rare creatures being strong. If you compare the development combat went into from creatures, tokens and stat development via payshop, it becomes more and more of an elitist circle. I have all these creatures, and I'd wager I have enough stats and knowledge about combat in general to defeat people even if they statgrind to hell- but there's only so far I can tip the scales.[b] Now, I know MD needs credits to keep being funded. But honestly, it came at the expense of the combat system if you ask me.[/b]

That's why I really enjoyed the Statless BHC idea and the runs which utilized it. There it is about the creatures you own, your ve (since it's not completely statless sadly or maybe luckily for me) and the mind you have to utilize them. If combat were to once more become like I described, where everyone actually feels like they have a chance (and I'm not talking about the 0.0001% chance you have vs someone with insane stats, 2 morphs, 1 GG, 2 reins and whoknows) if they learn and utilize what they know.

I realize this sounds like an old topic, it has been chewed through a lot of times. It doesn't change the fact however that combat just is not what it used to be anymore. Don't get me wrong...someone who grinds for stats and has better creatures should have an advantage. But the way it has developed into unless you are willing to grind a lot to just catch up, you will be unable to match any of the current heavyweights. And even then you will need to get shop resets and a lot of credits in addition to what the others already have. Without that, or an extensive creature collection and a minimum of stats and spells, [b]you cannot even win 1% of the time[/b] [b]on defense[/b]. Offense you have it easier to win, defense is the hardest part in combat. Mirrorritual being the only real way to tip the scales for a few minutes in addition to supportative spells, it is pathetic how the weaken spell is useless, etc.

The TS/SW, UP were steps into the right direction. But, they did not manage to completely balance what we have now enough. And if they did, there would be complaints till they get nerfed- possibly too much, till they become useless. I'm not asking for flat 40/60 odds for winning. Just something like 10-25% if you know how to utilize the creatures and the defense. Make the creatures semi rare too. With the respective attacker/defender being able to increase/lower the odds by using different rituals as well.

Maybe I overlooked things, maybe my opinion is too rigid on this. I'd appreciate comments and constructive criticism.

[color=#0000ff][b]Edit: I edited a few things, so if you read this right after I posted, it might be good to glance over everything again. Finished editing now.[/b][/color] Edited by Shadowseeker

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[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1360670003' post='132506']
Agreed. Either by retiring it for now or doing some good changes. I spoke with the bhc guy and he seems totally disinterested in actually helping to change it.

I would propose it is stopped while we change it.
[/quote]

are you joking????
what I already told you??? I asked to MUR to work on all fighting contest HC and BHC but he told me that HC doesn't need any player that manage it since it automated... after let me understand with what powers I should change HC contest... don't say that I don't want help because I already opened some time ago a post about HC and revive it in some way... ([url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13071-discussion-about-hc-and-bhc/page__p__123526#entry123526"]http://magicduel.inv...526#entry123526[/url])
you can find a BFH post where you will find all ideas collected until now...
another thing... before to tell that others don't want help, look at yourself... are you doing something for change HC??? start you to change HC and propose ideas and ask for help... don't force others to help you....!!!


[quote name='Tal' timestamp='1360670932' post='132510']
I stopped trying to compete, due to the BHC running at the same time. And got fed up a long time ago of people who won, and are using the BHC to steal heads and log of all the time. Previous HC was worse. With people using Alts to steal heads and log of each time someone got 30 or more heads. People can say HC is unfair. I don't really care about that. But it just ruins all he fun of the HC.
[/quote]


hihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi..... this is really really really fun:-) when have you tried to compete in HC this time??? 2 weeks aren't enought to get at least 10k of points for go to second stage??? don't complain please... I know BHC have caused some problems and I will not run a side contest or BHC when HC will be active in future... but don't acccuse me that you aren't able to win HC in 2 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited by MRAlyon

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[quote name='MRAlyon' timestamp='1360688105' post='132534']
are you joking????
what I already told you??? I asked to MUR to work on all fighting contest HC and BHC but he told me that HC doesn't need any player that manage it since it automated... after let me understand with what powers I should change HC contest... don't say that I don't want help because I already opened some time ago a post about HC and revive it in some way... ([url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13071-discussion-about-hc-and-bhc/page__p__123526#entry123526"]http://magicduel.inv...526#entry123526[/url])
[/quote]

And mur has repeatedly admitted that he has not played enough recently to properly know what is going on. Which i told you and you didnt want to even try asking council or organse any form of group to look into helping it. It would not have gone against mur, because everyone could tell you that HC needs changes but you didnt care. I stand by my statement.

HC needs changes, lets all work towards it. Edited by Chewett

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[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1360670338' post='132509']
I suggest heads be only for mp5.
[/quote]

MP5s are the least interested. MP4s are the only ones that seem active in the contest.

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[quote name='Hedge Munos' timestamp='1360706416' post='132545']
MP5s are the least interested. MP4s are the only ones that seem active in the contest.
[/quote]
yeah but if there'll be no heads for mp4s all of them will have to compete only at mp5. hence the bulk of the people wanting to compete will be in mp5. all gathered at one MP.

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So, the contest for the top fighters would just be the intro to MP5? And when i don't want to fight during my early days and just advance to see more levels, i can't play HC because the top level fighters are just not included?

Sorry buddy, but you didn't think that one through before posting. :))

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[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1360707757' post='132548']
If we were to restrict to a single MP, it'd make more sense as MP4 to me, as a sort of "you're now ready for MP5" type of thing. You'd then have HC as a single MP, and BHC would primarily be MP5.
[/quote]

nuh. One cant use the crits to the max potential til mp5. Also, it'd cause clogging of players at mp4. There wouldnt be any players at mp5 to train or fight with. Everyone would wait at mp4 till they placed in heads. It'd be a mess. Edited by Nimrodel

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[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1360672632' post='132511']
Oh! Like you were gathering heads seriously before bhc happened. Atleast DD (No matter how much he whined bout it) put in a little effort to collect the heads and stay put with it. What did you do? Idle? Lol. Thats hardly how you play heads. Also, i had to cast a mirror rit to win against your defence to steal the heads. I'm that weak. Also, i didnt do the logout thing till recently when DD said i was incapable of helping people to show what I could do if i really wanted to be mean and wanted to bully people. All that with a non damage rit on defence. You should just say that you cant put in that much time and effort because your RL has more pressing issues. Thats a perfectly respectable and acceptable reason. But you had to blame bhc for it. Lovely.

P.S. - i softened DD's words. ;)
[/quote]

I was tallking about the last hc in general.
and yes, those where mostly played by the winners, by gathering heads and then idling somewhere away from the people.
dont presume to think to tell me what to say. hc is boring as it is now, I log in several times a day to just check and then go away from md.
mainly cause of people like you.

the only level its still fun to play hc is mp4.
few stats or tokens involved, and no spells.

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