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The MoM

this is serious

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I was passing by the park today, and this is what I found :
[attachment=4102:1.png]
the sparring grounds. Empty. And a new player over there, she/he must be wondering 'okay... umm where is everyone?'
just thought I'd let you know...

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well, HC is over for one thing
and the second thing : when I was here about a year ago, even during HC, that place was always full...
and also : looking back at MD a long time ago (ie, the pictures they post on reviews and such) the place was so full that even if we get every online/idle soul in the realm together at that place, we still wouldn't beat the number...

to me it simply looks like a graph, one with a negative slope...

EDIT :
it's not that I'm being pessimistic, it's just... I think I'm for some reason 'sad' and 'dissapointed' after reading a few threads...
Awi's indefinite period of inactivity
Sagewomen, gone
Eon, no longer HBC Master
and much more... *shrugs* I might be over reacting... but, I dunno... Edited by The MoM

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[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344173100' post='119311']
Awi's indefinite period of inactivity
Sagewomen, gone
Eon, no longer HBC Master
[/quote]


It is called player's lifecycle. You can't expect someone to be here forevere. Players come and players go. Some make an inpact some go unnoticed.

Besides, don't forget it's summer. Summer is by definition a dead period for games from all points of view and aspects.

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the point isn't WHO left the game, but rather how much...

also, and this I'm not exactly sure about but from what I've heard, Mur is on a 'break' well deserved in my opinion, and ofcourse, we can't expect him to tie his life on MD for us, but did he give the council authority over all matters MD? I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I don't know if it is or isn't, but it's one of those changes that actually changes nothing, but changes a lot.

burns, chew, dst, you've all been here for some time, and I don't think you'll leave anytime soon, but tell me, change is inevitable, I know, and we all agree here, that almost all changes Mur makes are for the best of MD, even if we don't see it that way, but I'm somewhat having a hard time understanding some of them, eventhought it might not be my right to 'question the system'

for example, I know that smartAlekRJ used to be drachorn master, and he used to reward drachorns for quests...
right now, they cost a fortune to get one, 16 gold and up.

angiens, eventhough less rare, are a dream for most MP3s... and the annoying this about it is this : they cost a lot of AP to level up and become useful.. that was good! it taught people patience! right now, almost all angiens are old enough to be directly upgraded, but here's the catch, not anyone can get them, oh no... you have to buy them

I say angiens are less rare because I've seen many people give them out for quests, Maebius for instance, buys all the ones he can find and gives them all out, sponsoring them, but is there no way a person can get them himself anymore?

the closing of the angien's shrine, I might agree with (eventhough I don't know why), and I will agree with. (maybe it was abused? I trust Mur) but the drach lair is closed only because no master appeared or since the old one didn't leave the key, or or or...

the idea that it's summer , well I agree with that. less traffic, but as far as demographics go if the mortality rate is higher than the birth rate, the country is in some trouble (well, in most cases, China excluded for example)

also, and this troubles me a little, a lot of MP3s are no longer doing anything alone! ie, a burst? they directly get the answer, without trying and guessing. beating the guards? people lend a hand and provide a spell... I asked for a cast a few days ago from a friend. he said no, and he was right, I shouldn't get into LR like that, after all, how will I learn anything about it? I was just jealous that those who probably knew less than me about rituals went in faster... spoilers spoil the fun, they don't seem to get it though

amd Rumi, I also knew Marvolo, and I also miss him, no one should leave MD due to 'boredom' or such, MD's just too enthralling... I wonder what happened....

oh, and dst, the point wasn't with the cycle the point was and I 'semi-quote' Eon

'it's not out of addiction for this game. That died out long ago' <-- for a fighter and one that doesn't do much RP, the implication is clear... Edited by The MoM

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[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320'] but did he give the council authority over all matters MD? I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I don't know if it is or isn't, but it's one of those changes that actually changes nothing, but changes a lot.
[/quote]

yes he did. It changes thigns quite a lot... Your contradiction is plain wrong.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
burns, chew, dst, you've all been here for some time, and I don't think you'll leave anytime soon, but tell me, change is inevitable, I know, and we all agree here, that almost all changes Mur makes are for the best of MD, even if we don't see it that way, but I'm somewhat having a hard time understanding some of them, eventhought it might not be my right to 'question the system'
[/quote]

No, those who idolize Mur and put him on a pedestal will claim that all his actions he does are perfect and great. They arnt. Mur is a human like anyone else and he makes mistakes like anyone else. However he has the right to say that he wants the game to move in X direction, even if people disagree with it.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
for example, I know that smartAlekRJ used to be drachorn master, and he used to reward drachorns for quests...
right now, they cost a fortune to get one, 16 gold and up.
[/quote]

I would point out that there is a player that has the ability to give these items out, but they are exceptionally inactive and i havent seen them in a while.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
angiens, eventhough less rare, are a dream for most MP3s... and the annoying this about it is this : they cost a lot of AP to level up and become useful.. that was good! it taught people patience! right now, almost all angiens are old enough to be directly upgraded, but here's the catch, not anyone can get them, oh no... you have to buy them

I say angiens are less rare because I've seen many people give them out for quests, Maebius for instance, buys all the ones he can find and gives them all out, sponsoring them, but is there no way a person can get them himself anymore?
[/quote]
Yes you can get them, see below.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
the closing of the angien's shrine, I might agree with (eventhough I don't know why), and I will agree with. (maybe it was abused? I trust Mur) but the drach lair is closed only because no master appeared or since the old one didn't leave the key, or or or...
[/quote]
Angiens shrine was closed by petition of the MB people. One person has access and has the ability to take people there. Again, its not impossible to get them, in addition to drachorns as i have mentioned. You can get both creatures if you try. However for the drachs i feel a new guardian needs to be chosen since the current is hideously inactive.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
the idea that it's summer , well I agree with that. less traffic, but as far as demographics go if the mortality rate is higher than the birth rate, the country is in some trouble (well, in most cases, China excluded for example)

also, and this troubles me a little, a lot of MP3s are no longer doing anything alone! ie, a burst? they directly get the answer, without trying and guessing. beating the guards? people lend a hand and provide a spell... I asked for a cast a few days ago from a friend. he said no, and he was right, I shouldn't get into LR like that, after all, how will I learn anything about it? I was just jealous that those who probably knew less than me about rituals went in faster... spoilers spoil the fun, they don't seem to get it though
[/quote]

I see the game in its current state as very much "beta" you could prettymuch close MD and work on it getting it into a more "workable" state, and re-open it again. You are all testers for the first stage. Many things need a lot of work to bring it up to a properly playable game. Combat has went through numerous stages and still hasnt reached one with the initial idea of "anyone can beat anyone"


[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
amd Rumi, I also knew Marvolo, and I also miss him, no one should leave MD due to 'boredom' or such, MD's just too enthralling... I wonder what happened....
[/quote]

Thats a tad foolish, people get bored of stuff, they move on. I find MD immensively interesting from a point of view that few others will share, people get different things from MD. Edited by Chewett

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[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344178011' post='119321']
yes he did. It changes thigns quite a lot... Your contradiction is plain wrong.
[/quote]

actually I said it changes a lot. To be clearer, systematically, yes, we still have someone in power, someone who will monitor fairness, and will implement new ideas, but in reality, it is different, just as you said. (sorry for the ambiguity).


[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344178011' post='119321']
No, those who idolize Mur and put him on a pedestal will claim that all his actions he does are perfect and great. They arnt. Mur is a human like anyone else and he makes mistakes like anyone else. However he has the right to say that he wants the game to move in X direction, even if people disagree with it.
[/quote]

agreed. (else I wouldn't have ranted about how I think some things need changing.)


[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344178011' post='119321']
I would point out that there is a player that has the ability to give these items out, but they are exceptionally inactive and i havent seen them in a while.
[/quote]

okay, I maybe way over my head here, but, is it really difficult to change him/her?
I've done my research, and I know what I'm saying, it's not as absurd as it first sounds.
the new player will be an RPC, hence he has to be trustworthy and not abuse his powers,
he also has to prove himself, and the council has to approve him etc...

but in my point of view, almost any reliable person will do a better job than an almost always inactive one.

I read somewhere in the forums that there was a new guy who is drachorn master, but he was too inactive to do the job well... and now chewy just confirmed this...

maybe they don't want to switch so easily to a 'temperory' person, maybe they want to find the perfect one directly? or maybe they think that's not as big a change as what they're implementing...

again, I might be saying something that's totally absurd to some of you vets, for I've never seen the process of picking new RPCs, but... 5 weeks till the new citizenship feature, won't getting a new master be faster? forget faster, simpler?
and it'll also have an impact, many people (believe me you) would rush to try to solve the quest, he/she puts in store. even if not for the prize.

If this sounds absurd, I'm sorry I mentioned it.


[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344178011' post='119321']
Angiens shrine was closed by petition of the MB people. One person has access and has the ability to take people there. Again, its not impossible to get them, in addition to drachorns as i have mentioned. You can get both creatures if you try.
[/quote]

my sincere apologies then. it's their land's creatures, they have the right to do whatever they want with it.


[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344178011' post='119321']
However for the drachs i feel a new guardian needs to be chosen since the current is hideously inactive.
[/quote]

agreed. (eventhough I think the 'how' is different in our ideas)


[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344178011' post='119321']
I see the game in its current state as very much "beta" you could prettymuch close MD and work on it getting it into a more "workable" state, and re-open it again. You are all testers for the first stage. Many things need a lot of work to bring it up to a properly playable game. Combat has went through numerous stages and still hasnt reached one with the initial idea of "anyone can beat anyone"
[/quote]

(offtopic) re-opening... I wonder how people would react to that...


[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344178011' post='119321']
Thats a tad foolish, people get bored of stuff, they move on. I find MD immensively interesting from a point of view that few others will share, people get different things from MD.
[/quote]

imo, there's a difference b/w leaving because you're just mad at something, or leaving because it's just become too mundane...
I knew Marvolo, not that well at all, but I knew him, if he left due to 'boredom' like I said, then I'm wrong, and you're right, it's very foolish.. if the other option, then no, I really am sad he left of that
(I know this contradicts my first post, but I was editing, so didn't pay much attention to wording)


EDIT : for readability. Edited by The MoM

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[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344180147' post='119322']
okay, I maybe way over my head here, but, is it really difficult to change him/her?
I've done my research, and I know what I'm saying, it's not as absurd as it first sounds.
the new player will be an RPC, hence he has to be trustworthy and not abuse his powers,
he also has to prove himself, and the council has to approve him etc...

but in my point of view, almost any reliable person will do a better job than an almost always inactive one.

I read somewhere in the forums that there was a new guy who is drachorn master, but he was too inactive to do the job well... and now chewy just confirmed this...

maybe they don't want to switch so easily to a 'temperory' person, maybe they want to find the perfect one directly? or maybe they think that's not as big a change as what they're implementing...

again, I might be saying something that's totally absurd to some of you vets, for I've never seen the process of picking new RPCs, but... 5 weeks till the new citizenship feature, won't getting a new master be faster? forget faster, simpler?
and it'll also have an impact, many people (believe me you) would rush to try to solve the quest, he/she puts in store. even if not for the prize.

If this sounds absurd, I'm sorry I mentioned it.
[/quote]

Said person lost their alliance once, it was given back and they have done nothing, Essentially their role had faded into the background of inactivity. As for randomly giving a role out, yeah lets just randomly give everyone roles...

Since they were given the alliance back, they clearly were in favour to request and get the alliance back. I would doubt they would get it back a second time if they were to request it back, but then i questioned why they got it back in the first place because they were inactive before they lost it.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344180147' post='119322']
(offtopic) re-opening... I wonder how people would react to that...
[/quote]

MD has been a lot more inactive than this, and its "activity" changes, at one point "active" was lots of people grinding at GGG.

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[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344180694' post='119325']
Said person lost their alliance once, it was given back and they have done nothing, Essentially their role had faded into the background of inactivity. As for randomly giving a role out, yeah lets just randomly give everyone roles...

Since they were given the alliance back, they clearly were in favour to request and get the alliance back. I would doubt they would get it back a second time if they were to request it back, but then i questioned why they got it back in the first place because they were inactive before they lost it.
[/quote]

alright, I'm starting to understand this.
we can compare that alliance to the treasure keepers (in a vague type of way), and said person to seig, alright.

I had once read all the announcements, and I remember how alliances were created... I know for one thing they're deffinately not like other games, it takes time, a role, and a degree of commitment, but...
if they are this rare and unique and well, 'important', why are we letting this one go to let this one rot?

also, suppose seig were inactive (which of course points to nothing I'm just supposing). no seig -> no sponsorship from council -> less sponsorship in general -> less enthusiasm in quests & less people doing quests (since they don't have the rewards to back them up)...

on a final note, I never said we should give them out randomly... I said and explicitly stated that they would have to have certain characteristics, an RPC is a big deal, I know, but aren't there any non-RPCs who deserve it right now? Yes I'm talking over 400 active days maybe, but there has to be someone?


[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344180694' post='119325']
MD has been a lot more inactive than this, and its "activity" changes, at one point "active" was lots of people grinding at GGG.
[/quote]

I'm actually defining inactive with the broadest possible definition 'being online/idle at least 4 times a week'...

I was here when the GGG was in place (well, my brother was, not me, but he told me everything, and then I researched, so I know), and I know that Burns, after enjoying it for a while, started hating it, because it left him with little opponents and such... I also know about willow's...
now, let me tell you, what Burns was experiencing, I'm experiencing...

I'm an alt, in case you don't know, but I never meant to quit. a year ago, when Mur killed my stats, I quit, and now, I came back again. MD just has that pull to it...

my first account maxed out pretty quick on MP3...
this one? not even close...
Okay, I'm not particularly looking for opponents, but... there aren't MP3s with the quantity there used to be... on top of that, we have the MP3s who can't even be called MP3s... the ones with the 40k ve, and 200k ve, and 900 damage per hit, with 6 creatures + lots of ve...
If I try looking for a fight I have to think about. I find none. they're either too overpowered (like the ones above) or too under-powered (because they can't seem to understand the battle system too much) also I seemed to notice that people actually care less about the fights now. No one really looks at logs anymore (i'm talking about the new MP3s, comparing now and then)...


oh, and one final thing, what about the 'spoilers' topic?
I mean, aren't these specific things part of the 'filters' I hear a lot about?
why should some get special treatment and others not.
I hear some MP3s complaining (and mind me you, they're my friends) 'oh! they're so strong, how could X pass them? she wasn't that strong'
so, the 'strength that is also the weakness' that always pops up on the hints part, it's nothing now?


EDIT : it might be a little harsh or illogical, I'm sorry for that, I'll try to make future posts 'better and clearer' Edited by The MoM

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On the drachorns, it's quite simple, there is no need for a new master, the population is too high already. The distribution might be a little unfair, yes, but the amount of them, and of the angiens, is easily high enough for the number of players. I'd need to count to see just how many drachlings the lair contains currently, but it is a whole lot, and the melodic charm is all finished, there's just nobody doing anything cool enough to deserve one of those.

MP3 is what it is because of some mistakes in Mur's plan, and that's unfortunate, but inevitable. Luckily we got MP limits for creatures, you have no idea what it'd be like without them. Chewett said it, Mur and the council aren't flawless, but they make the decisions, we can only rant when we find the flaws. And, as we aren't flawless, either, sometimes we see flaws where none exist.

Spoilers are, and that is also very unfortunate, a lot more common these days, because there are many more who understand tiny bits and want to 'help their friends', or, more often, make a bargain in a deal with somebody who knows too little to see how he's tricked. Of course that doesn't get better with the general MP3 situation, where some are a lot stronger than others, but that's a global change. Either we change it back, or we adjust, and one of those options isn't in our power.

You can't apply what you found out about MD a year ago to MD now. You can't even apply your findings of yesterday to the MD of tomorrow. That's what Mur meant with perpetual alpha.

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[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
the point isn't WHO left the game, but rather how much...

also, and this I'm not exactly sure about but from what I've heard, Mur is on a 'break' well deserved in my opinion, and ofcourse, we can't expect him to tie his life on MD for us, but did he give the council authority over all matters MD? I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I don't know if it is or isn't, but it's one of those changes that actually changes nothing, but changes a lot.
[/quote]

Council is a group. They need to take decisions based on overal agreement. Why this is needed? SImple more heads think better than one. If one takes a decision he/she might forget any aspect which can lead to future errors/bugs/abuses. So I think it's good they do thinks as a group and well I think that such agreements take time. So we just have to have patience.


[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
burns, chew, dst, you've all been here for some time, and I don't think you'll leave anytime soon, but tell me, change is inevitable, I know, and we all agree here, that almost all changes Mur makes are for the best of MD, even if we don't see it that way, but I'm somewhat having a hard time understanding some of them, eventhought it might not be my right to 'question the system'
[/quote]

Md is developing every day. There are things out there that as you point we don't see. I'm sure MD coders are flooded with work. You have to have in mind that most of the feautures developed in MD requires a "hidden" part to ensure it's safe and not abuse enabled.

A full feauture won't be developed on a single day. There are many aspects to cover and we can't expect MD Staff to sort them out that fast. At least it's how I see that.


[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
for example, I know that smartAlekRJ used to be drachorn master, and he used to reward drachorns for quests...
right now, they cost a fortune to get one, 16 gold and up.
[/quote]

Smarty abused his role. Many do. People can get drachs as rewards for quests. Any quester can. MD provided many posibilities people aren't using.

Just to mention two ways they can reach such rewards:
[list]
[*]Contact the TK's
[*]Contact Council
[*]Contact any LHO/Vets who will point you to the right persons for such (probably last two mentioned)
[/list]
So basically there aren't any excuses for not having anything as rewards.


[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
angiens, eventhough less rare, are a dream for most MP3s... and the annoying this about it is this : they cost a lot of AP to level up and become useful.. that was good! it taught people patience! right now, almost all angiens are old enough to be directly upgraded, but here's the catch, not anyone can get them, oh no... you have to buy them

I say angiens are less rare because I've seen many people give them out for quests, Maebius for instance, buys all the ones he can find and gives them all out, sponsoring them, but is there no way a person can get them himself anymore?

the closing of the angien's shrine, I might agree with (eventhough I don't know why), and I will agree with. (maybe it was abused? I trust Mur) but the drach lair is closed only because no master appeared or since the old one didn't leave the key, or or or...
[/quote]

Angiens are still recruitable, but guess what, abuses make them hard to get. MD will evolve based on player actions. I believe (personal opinion) angiens shouldn't be creats for mp3s. Reality is they are. The ap requirements can be beaten, any player with the correct knowledge can use the tools outher to reach enough amounts of ap to upgrade any creats. So I guess it's a challenge any of you have to beat and best. The knowlege of it will make your other stages easier.

Also not everyone have to buy them... People are just too lazy to find one. :P

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
the idea that it's summer , well I agree with that. less traffic, but as far as demographics go if the mortality rate is higher than the birth rate, the country is in some trouble (well, in most cases, China excluded for example)

also, and this troubles me a little, a lot of MP3s are no longer doing anything alone! ie, a burst? they directly get the answer, without trying and guessing. beating the guards? people lend a hand and provide a spell... I asked for a cast a few days ago from a friend. he said no, and he was right, I shouldn't get into LR like that, after all, how will I learn anything about it? I was just jealous that those who probably knew less than me about rituals went in faster... spoilers spoil the fun, they don't seem to get it though
[/quote]

I can't agree more with sopiler things. There are a few mp5/mp4 outthere giving spoilers like crazy. Guess what, they are showing those players how little they care for them. They are making them weak. Most of those who are given such answers freely learn to be given all at their hands. Learn to make no efforts. Learn to leave when they can't get anything they wish. Worst, since they are just given the answer, they learn nothing about the concept, what it means, and how to use it in their favor.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
amd Rumi, I also knew Marvolo, and I also miss him, no one should leave MD due to 'boredom' or such, MD's just too enthralling... I wonder what happened....
[/quote]

MD is playerbased, we build the fun, we build the boredom. You all have it in your hands. Get involved.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344177075' post='119320']
oh, and dst, the point wasn't with the cycle the point was and I 'semi-quote' Eon

'it's not out of addiction for this game. That died out long ago' <-- for a fighter and one that doesn't do much RP, the implication is clear...
[/quote]

Eon? What with Eon?

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[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1344189564' post='119336']
On the drachorns, it's quite simple, there is no need for a new master, the population is too high already. The distribution might be a little unfair, yes, but the amount of them, and of the angiens, is easily high enough for the number of players. I'd need to count to see just how many drachlings the lair contains currently, but it is a whole lot, and the melodic charm is all finished, there's just nobody doing anything cool enough to deserve one of those.
[/quote]

uneven distribution is just the problem... and it will stay that way, because when someone gets rid of his drach, he gives to those who already are from that 'social group'

ie, the guys with lots of coins and lots of creatures....
but now that i think of it a little, those getting the coins and creatures were where we are now...

'no one has done anything cool' define cool please. Also, I didn't know that we had to do something cool to get drachorns. I thought it was a quest that we'd have to participate in, one that we knew the rules before we joined...

(note, no offense, I really didn't mean it)

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1344189564' post='119336']
P3 is what it is because of some mistakes in Mur's plan, and that's unfortunate, but inevitable. Luckily we got MP limits for creatures, you have no idea what it'd be like without them. Chewett said it, Mur and the council aren't flawless, but they make the decisions, we can only rant when we find the flaws. And, as we aren't flawless, either, sometimes we see flaws where none exist.
[/quote]

agreed. too bad.


[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1344189564' post='119336']
Spoilers are, and that is also very unfortunate, a lot more common these days, because there are many more who understand tiny bits and want to 'help their friends', or, more often, make a bargain in a deal with somebody who knows too little to see how he's tricked. Of course that doesn't get better with the general MP3 situation, where some are a lot stronger than others, but that's a global change. Either we change it back, or we adjust, and one of those options isn't in our power.
[/quote]

this is something we all agree on. Can we don nothing about it?


[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1344189564' post='119336']
You can't apply what you found out about MD a year ago to MD now. You can't even apply your findings of yesterday to the MD of tomorrow. That's what Mur meant with perpetual alpha.
[/quote]

maybe, but then again, isn't the whole point of the 'development' to try out new things and to find which worked best for us, and then apply them all together...
so shouldn't it be that what we saw 'yesterday' and liked, and what we saw 'today' and didn't have to be used all together to create the 'perfect' mix?
I know I can't apply them currently, but shouldn't they still be considered?

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This seems to have gone on quite a large tangent from a specific area of concern to a wide range of different ones.

Sticking to your first post, as I don't have the time nor need to read all the other posts (as I am replying to what you said directly), 90% of MD has less than one person in a scene at one time. Yes, the MDP may be a beginning area for a player, but then again so is entrance to the MDP. The player is not stuck to one location.
The tutorial teaches how to move and, briefly, describes about LHO's and live chat. They are more than capable of finding other players in other locations.

What with it being the heads contest and summer holidays, it is likely people will not be in the normal areas nor on as often.

I am sure that because one scene is empty, the player won't up their bags and leave.

~Sasha

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[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344191498' post='119339']
Council is a group. They need to take decisions based on overal agreement. Why this is needed? SImple more heads think better than one. If one takes a decision he/she might forget any aspect which can lead to future errors/bugs/abuses. So I think it's good they do thinks as a group and well I think that such agreements take time. So we just have to have patience.
[/quote]

rhetoric question. Are the council members real players?
from what I gather, they're not... so is it really in our best interest?
would an African gouvernment successfully rule an American populous?
no, they just don't understand them, same thing if you switch it... (not that I'm showing racism, I'm just supposing, that an African gouvernment, with all the poverty in it's country isn't used to being technologically advanced. I'm not showing racism, it's just reality.)


[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344191498' post='119339']
Md is developing every day. There are things out there that as you point we don't see. I'm sure MD coders are flooded with work. You have to have in mind that most of the feautures developed in MD requires a "hidden" part to ensure it's safe and not abuse enabled.
A full feauture won't be developed on a single day. There are many aspects to cover and we can't expect MD Staff to sort them out that fast. At least it's how I see that.
[/quote]

agreed. things will take time to be done right. If they could be done faster, it'd be better though...
but don't forget that one person deciding and implementing will be faster when it comes to decisions, BUT he/she will have more mistakes (ie, he'll probably implement a bad idea) but if he's 'one of our own' ie, like Mur was, the chances of a bad idea will go down dramatically... now with the council, many people arguing, it'll take more time to reach a consensus.


[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344191498' post='119339']
Smarty abused his role. Many do. People can get drachs as rewards for quests. Any quester can. MD provided many posibilities people aren't using.

Just to mention two ways they can reach such rewards:[list]
[*]Contact the TK's
[*]Contact Council
[*]Contact any LHO/Vets who will point you to the right persons for such (probably last two mentioned)
[/list]
So basically there aren't any excuses for not having anything as rewards.
[/quote]

but the reward has to be worth the quest, and such quests are usually also only restricted to a specific set of people, making the rich richer, and poor poorer.


[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344191498' post='119339']
Angiens are still recruitable, but guess what, abuses make them hard to get. MD will evolve based on player actions. I believe (personal opinion) angiens shouldn't be creats for mp3s. Reality is they are. The ap requirements can be beaten, any player with the correct knowledge can use the tools outher to reach enough amounts of ap to upgrade any creats. So I guess it's a challenge any of you have to beat and best. The knowlege of it will make your other stages easier.

Also not everyone have to buy them... People are just too lazy to find one. :P
[/quote]

actually, if you think about it a bit, it'll be an incentive for new MP3s to understand and discover the secrets of MD.
ofcourse, there are those overpowered MP3s that we still have to deal with...


[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344191498' post='119339']
I can't agree more with sopiler things. There are a few mp5/mp4 outthere giving spoilers like crazy. Guess what, they are showing those players how little they care for them. They are making them weak. Most of those who are given such answers freely learn to be given all at their hands. Learn to make no efforts. Learn to leave when they can't get anything they wish. Worst, since they are just given the answer, they learn nothing about the concept, what it means, and how to use it in their favor.
[/quote]

we all do, so same comment, can't we do anything about it?


[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344191498' post='119339']
MD is playerbased, we build the fun, we build the boredom. You all have it in your hands. Get involved.
Eon? What with Eon?
[/quote]


did we really build the boredom BFH? If you make a party and only two people show up, it's not really your fault is it?
but ofcourse, we're still trying to make it better... everyone's trying

oh, and about Eon, I was just quoting what he said about MD losing it's flavor...
will we all end up like that? and I don't mean out of boredom, but rather out of animosity that things have changed...






[quote name='Sasha Lilias' timestamp='1344195274' post='119343']
This seems to have gone on quite a large tangent from a specific area of concern to a wide range of different ones.

Sticking to your first post, as I don't have the time nor need to read all the other posts (as I am replying to what you said directly), 90% of MD has less than one person in a scene at one time. Yes, the MDP may be a beginning area for a player, but then again so is entrance to the MDP. The player is not stuck to one location.
The tutorial teaches how to move and, briefly, describes about LHO's and live chat. They are more than capable of finding other players in other locations.

What with it being the heads contest and summer holidays, it is likely people will not be in the normal areas nor on as often.

I am sure that because one scene is empty, the player won't up their bags and leave.

~Sasha
[/quote]

you don't like reading so I'll keep this brief.

where was the place you trained in when you were MP3? I mean, most of the time

the subtitle of the scene, for crying out loud, is 'the sparring grounds' why would no sparring be taking place?

plus, the GoE was full... but only one MP3 was there... me... *shrugs* I dunno, just doesn't seem right

Edited by The MoM

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[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344196157' post='119344']
you don't like reading so I'll keep this brief.

where was the place you trained in when you were MP3? I mean, most of the time

the subtitle of the scene, for crying out loud, is 'the sparring grounds' why would no sparring be taking place?

plus, the GoE was full... but only one MP3 was there... me... *shrugs* I dunno, just doesn't seem right
[/quote]

It's not that I don't like reading, it's that I want to keep to the point.

When I trained as a MP3 (and as for many of the Vets) there were no sparring grounds or GGG. There was the Dojo, but that came quite a bit later.
As for the title, it was named that when it was taken over by the people, such as ShadowSeeker. If people choose not to train there then perhaps it should have the tag a) removed or b) changed.

[b]Change happens. Nothing stays the same indefinitely.[/b]

I think you have taken this quite a bit too strongly, and need to realise that although it is empty now, it will fill up once more when people choose for it to do so.

~Sasha

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[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344196157' post='119344']
rhetoric question. Are the council members real players?
from what I gather, they're not... so is it really in our best interest?
would an African gouvernment successfully rule an American populous?
no, they just don't understand them, same thing if you switch it... (not that I'm showing racism, I'm just supposing, that an African gouvernment, with all the poverty in it's country isn't used to being technologically advanced. I'm not showing racism, it's just reality.)
[/quote]

I don't think people are stupid enough to think they aren't players. You really think any external person can understand MD world and such things without been players... If you believe that.. Too disappointing...


[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344196157' post='119344']
agreed. things will take time to be done right. If they could be done faster, it'd be better though...
but don't forget that one person deciding and implementing will be faster when it comes to decisions, BUT he/she will have more mistakes (ie, he'll probably implement a bad idea) but if he's 'one of our own' ie, like Mur was, the chances of a bad idea will go down dramatically... now with the council, many people arguing, it'll take more time to reach a consensus.
[/quote]

Mur left many unfinished things, he was one and like me on other sites, he just couldn't do all. Hence the need of a group, they might be slow, but at least do things fully.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344196157' post='119344']

but the reward has to be worth the quest, and such quests are usually also only restricted to a specific set of people, making the rich richer, and poor poorer.

[/quote]

This is a lie. Anyone can make a worth quest. I guess you guys aren't having enough enthusiasm participating in them or creating them. On my quests there are players from all stages who won them.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344196157' post='119344']
actually, if you think about it a bit, it'll be an incentive for new MP3s to understand and discover the secrets of MD.
ofcourse, there are those overpowered MP3s that we still have to deal with...
[/quote]

Spoilers shouldn;t be the option. Never ever. There are other ways to make them learn. Many ways.

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344196157' post='119344']
did we really build the boredom BFH? If you make a party and only two people show up, it's not really your fault is it?
but ofcourse, we're still trying to make it better... everyone's trying
[/quote]

If I make a party and I organize it correctly it will be successful. If I organize a party without considering all aspects it won't be successful.

Boredom is our fault. There are still ingame concepts that needs to be changed for more an "open" game. But still, it's our fault.
[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344196157' post='119344']
oh, and about Eon, I was just quoting what he said about MD losing it's flavor...
will we all end up like that? and I don't mean out of boredom, but rather out of animosity that things have changed...
[/quote]

Eon is asking for someone to challenge him :P That will be fun :)

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344196157' post='119344']
you don't like reading so I'll keep this brief.

where was the place you trained in when you were MP3? I mean, most of the time

the subtitle of the scene, for crying out loud, is 'the sparring grounds' why would no sparring be taking place?

plus, the GoE was full... but only one MP3 was there... me... *shrugs* I dunno, just doesn't seem right
[/quote]

As mp3.. lets see I trained on 3 places. Sparrings, GoE, & GGG.

Answer to why there aren't many mp3s out there points to other problems which are still being solved/fixed, but this shouldn't affect

[quote name='Sasha Lilias' timestamp='1344196771' post='119345']

[b]Change happens. Nothing stays the same indefinitely.[/b]

I think you have taken this quite a bit too strongly, and need to realise that although it is empty now, it will fill up once more when people choose for it to do so.

~Sasha
[/quote]

AGREE

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[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344197062' post='119346']
I don't think people are stupid enough to think they aren't players. You really think any external person can understand MD world and such things without been players... If you believe that.. Too disappointing...
[/quote]

are they STILL players?
if so then I misunderstood, but since it was Mur's announcement interpreted by chewy... well then, it would be an honest mistake
plus, if they still ARE players, then what's to make sure that they don't 'help themselves'
I know that's stupid, I didn't really mean it, I know they wouldn't, but that's the logical thinking pattern I followed to reach the conclusion that they're not current players.


[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344197062' post='119346']
Mur left many unfinished things, he was one and like me on other sites, he just couldn't do all. Hence the need of a group, they might be slow, but at least do things fully.
[/quote]

true. I can't judge this since I just showed up. Before, Mur was in charge. I'll have to wait and see.


[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344197062' post='119346']
This is a lie. Anyone can make a worth quest. I guess you guys aren't having enough enthusiasm participating in them or creating them. On my quests there are players from all stages who won them.
[/quote]

unfortunately I just missed your summer festival quest... I really got pissed...
but my point was that a lot of quests can only be solved by vets. some, I agree, are good for all, poems, pictures, etc...
but some, are targeted at higher level players. And usually that's where most of the 'good' prizes are located
I'm not saying some don't exist for other types, but that the majority are for this.


[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344197062' post='119346']
If I make a party and I organize it correctly it will be successful. If I organize a party without considering all aspects it won't be successful.

Boredom is our fault. There are still ingame concepts that needs to be changed for more an "open" game. But still, it's our fault.
[/quote]

exactly, if correctly organized, you'll attract a crowd, if not, you don't... the point isn't about boredom here, but attracting the crowd to avoid the boredom


[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1344197062' post='119346']
As mp3.. lets see I trained on 3 places. Sparrings, GoE, & GGG.
Answer to why there aren't many mp3s out there points to other problems which are still being solved/fixed, but this shouldn't affect
[/quote]

b/w every other thing in this thread, and a lot has been said, this is my main point...
there aren't many mp3s out there...
this will solve many, many, MANY things...







[quote name='Sasha Lilias' timestamp='1344196771' post='119345']
When I trained as a MP3 (and as for many of the Vets) there were no sparring grounds or GGG. There was the Dojo, but that came quite a bit later.
As for the title, it was named that when it was taken over by the people, such as ShadowSeeker. If people choose not to train there then perhaps it should have the tag a) removed or b) changed.

[b]Change happens. Nothing stays the same indefinitely.[/b]

~Sasha
[/quote]

it's not that I'm being offensive, but that's not my point...
actually, we're on the same side here... change will happen, it should, but I'm not talking about the place
i'm talking about the lack of MP3s...

sparring grounds is where they are usually located, their lack there is their lack almost everywhere... that's what I meant.
and at that time, that was the most populated scene by MP3s in the realm...

I'm sorry if I seemed offensive or such Sasha... Edited by The MoM

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[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344199143' post='119350']
are they STILL players?
if so then I misunderstood, but since it was Mur's announcement interpreted by chewy... well then, it would be an honest mistake
plus, if they still ARE players, then what's to make sure that they don't 'help themselves'
I know that's stupid, I didn't really mean it, I know they wouldn't, but that's the logical thinking pattern I followed to reach the conclusion that they're not current players.
[/quote]

Dont bring me into your misunderstanding, i havent spoken to you before...

show me where i was interpreting please :)

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344199143' post='119350']
true. I can't judge this since I just showed up. Before, Mur was in charge. I'll have to wait and see.
[/quote]

All this sounds like is "Iv come back, something has changed and i do not like it, i shall complain" quite honestly without actually spending some time to see the "new"

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344199143' post='119350']
unfortunately I just missed your summer festival quest... I really got pissed...
but my point was that a lot of quests can only be solved by vets. some, I agree, are good for all, poems, pictures, etc...
but some, are targeted at higher level players. And usually that's where most of the 'good' prizes are located
I'm not saying some don't exist for other types, but that the majority are for this.
[/quote]

You clearly did not even spend a minute looking at the summer festival, nor many of the recent quests, summer festival had quests where ANYONE could participate, please dont look misinformed in your statements...

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344199143' post='119350']
b/w every other thing in this thread, and a lot has been said, this is my main point...
there aren't many mp3s out there...
this will solve many, many, MANY things...
[/quote]

Go on then, you go and fix it :)

[quote name='The MoM' timestamp='1344199143' post='119350']
it's not that I'm being offensive, but that's not my point...
actually, we're on the same side here... change will happen, it should, but I'm not talking about the place
i'm talking about the lack of MP3s...

sparring grounds is where they are usually located, their lack there is their lack almost everywhere... that's what I meant.
and at that time, that was the most populated scene by MP3s in the realm...

I'm sorry if I seemed offensive or such Sasha...
[/quote]

Quite frankly, you seem misinformed and offensive towards people, you seem to have got an idea into your head "that there are lacking MP3's" and have wandered around as many points as you can think of blaming them.

Quests, Council, Eon, Awiiya, Heads Contest... the list goes on

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Ah, so you worry about the lack of MP3s? That the realm is "drying up" slowly?

This is merely the drought before the monsoon. There are periods when things seem to dry up, and hope looks lost, but then, without warning, in comes the rain, wetting the earth again, allowing things to grow once more.

People will begin joining the MP3 ranks again soon, just give it time.

~Sasha

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[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344199823' post='119353']
Dont bring me into your misunderstanding, i havent spoken to you before...

show me where i was interpreting please :)
[/quote]

sorry, you said anonymous, not non-players...
[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/12479-the-council-meeting/"]http://magicduel.inv...ouncil-meeting/[/url]


[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1344199823' post='119353']
All this sounds like is "Iv come back, something has changed and i do not like it, i shall complain" quite honestly without actually spending some time to see the "new"



You clearly did not even spend a minute looking at the summer festival, nor many of the recent quests, summer festival had quests where ANYONE could participate, please dont look misinformed in your statements...



Go on then, you go and fix it :)



Quite frankly, you seem misinformed and offensive towards people, you seem to have got an idea into your head "that there are lacking MP3's" and have wandered around as many points as you can think of blaming them.

Quests, Council, Eon, Awiiya, Heads Contest... the list goes on
[/quote]

sorry. I really didn't mean it like that.


[quote name='Sasha Lilias' timestamp='1344200175' post='119354']
People will begin joining the MP3 ranks again soon, just give it time.
[/quote]

I hope. not that I mean I don't think it won't happen, just I wish it happens

Edited by The MoM

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Protracted exchanges such as these where little is resolved (because neither side is too willing to listen, perhaps) always leave me feeling a bit discouraged. Usually I vent to Hedge, and after a few days I get over it. And then there's another forum dispute. I feel as if I need to read the forum to stay on top of things, but often I get drawn into something that leaves a sour taste in my mouth and thus affects my activity within the game.

Master of Mar is worried about the future of MD. It is obvious that many of those responding to this topic disagree with his arguments. But even if he's wrong about almost every last one (which I doubt) the worry remains. And it's not his alone. There are many concerned about the sustainability of MD. I don't think forum arguments help that concern (unless players come here for out of game arguments, rather than what I see as the core of MD, the overlapping interactive systems and "mythology" that can only be experienced in game).

I'd like to share a quote of Michel Foucault that appears in my papers:

[quote]"I dream about a kind of criticism that would try not to judge but to bring an oeuvre, a book, a sentence, an idea to life; it would light fires, watch the grass grow, listen to the wind, and catch the sea foam in the breeze and scatter it. It would multiply not judgments but signs of existence; it would summon them, drag them from their sleep. Perhaps it would invent them sometimes — all the better. Criticism that hands down sentences sends me to sleep; I’d like a criticism of scintillating leaps of imagination. It would not be sovereign or dressed in red. It would bear the lightning of possible storms."[/quote]

We all want the best for MD. Let's focus not on telling people how they are wrong, but show them a better alternative (a principle I've just violated, but I think it's worth stating this once). It's harder work, yes, but I think it would be more rewarding.

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finally... I've been searching for this since I first made this thread...

*drumroll* introducing the graph that made me worry :
[attachment=4104:1.png]

I'm not exactly sure, but graphical analysis and logical thinking lead the consensus that this isn't just 'temporary'
in 1 year, MD lost 75% of it's incoming 'hits'...

and now, so I don't get shouted at for only complaining, I have tried to think of what to do...

for one, I thought of making a referral contest, ie, he who refers the most (it would be obvious, an adept at a young age can only be referred) and the referred characters last over 15 days, wins. But I quickly found that silly and discarded it...

I also thought of something else, and better, but for this, I require resources I don't have...
to regulate and fix our 'change' it would be good enough if we simply made sure the MP3s stay here... how?
well, we should monitor their progress, and see at which stage they quit, allow me to exemplify :

first off, we check the number of unique visitors to the site that aren't already player (shouldn't be too hard).
we see how much of them actually sign up, as opposed to not. if about 99% sign up, well then, that's great!
If about 30% sign up, then we have to make the front page more attractive. problem found.

suppose 99% signed up. We check the how much quit right when they see all that reading (it happens) again, if the percentage is high, we have something wrong here to fix,
we continue all the time, creature acquiring, fighting, story mode
and we see, which part of the tutorial scares people away.

I'll be generous and say 70% of all people finish the tutorial and stick around...
we should know how much time they spent there, and on their time, we can deduce what they did/didn't do...
a mean & median for player's ages will also help a lot...

also, for the places we can't really know for sure, a simple pop up should appear for player when he tries to close the window if he is below 5 active days, and asks him if he wants to leave for good or not,
if he/she replies 'for good' then we ask why, not in the way of a text box,but rather, buttons, and we only input options he's seen so far
for example if he quits before story mode it would be something like 'the battle system is too boring' 'the graphics are horrible' 'the gameplay so far is really stupid' and ofcourse 'other'
and then, we do what facebook does to those who are trying to deactivate their account. Whichever option they pick, we tell them why that's NOT true, like 'the battle system is too boring' reply 'if it seems too boring for you, then maybe you have yet to find the creatures which will make it better, or have yet to understand it. Give it some time, and you might like it' then two options 'stay' and 'still leave'...

and one final thing, for those that make it out of the tutorial, an automatically generated random message, but from a player should be sent to the new guys, one like this :

hello, [name], and Welcome to MagicDuel!

in MagicDuel, you'll find all sorts of activities, so whatever you're like, you'll enjoy it..

There's fighting....
would you like to try and battle everyone, and become the supremem and ultimate player?
in our system, even the new player can beat the old one if he thinks well enough...

There's role playing...
are you creative and would like to show the world how unique you are?
magicduel allows you to build your character whichever way you want and then involve him in situations with others just like you!
There are no restrictions! you be anything, and do anything!

There's questing...
do you like to think and be mentally challenged? do you like to solve things?
magicduel is full of quests! anywhere you look, you'll find things that need solving.
I recommend [some tutorial quest starts go here]

There's learning...
if you like to uncover secrets and mysteries, and like to learn about the past and start of this world, then you can too!!

But first off,
before you can fight like a pro, you need more creatures...
before you can role-play, you need a more suitable position...
before you can quest, you have to find them...
before you can learn, you have to find hints...

you can do all that by exploring! so what are you waiting for? Go explore MD, and show it who you are!!








I don't mean to use this, I just mean like it'll help people know what to start doing... Edited by The MoM

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