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dst

Cowardice seasoned with a bit of hypocrisy

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[quote]Why must everyone find SOMETHING to bitch about? It's either me, dst, or Eon. People, stop ****** ******** *****ing.[/quote]

Well,I'm okay either way..I won't stop playing the game or anything..but I'm trying to put up a def against Eon in my own way.

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[quote name='Eon' timestamp='1325792873' post='99826']
Take all the screenshots you want of my alts walking around. Can you prove their specific goal is to stalk you for my main? That's the thing here, you can't unless I specifically tell you. For all you know Eno may feels a strong connection to the MDA and enjoys walking around the area from time to time. The same goes for anyone's accounts. You have no idea why we use them for the way we do unless we specifically say so.

[/quote]
Are you using your ALTS to spot activity in different areas so that you know what's hoing on and your main can go wherever there is something to get?

Have you been using your ALT to record data about shared items abuse in the log room? That benefitted to your main (if you ever got a bounty, that is!)

Answer those 2 questions frankly and I think the dispute can be easily solved.

And if you or anyone else using ALTS does not want to answer such questions, then probably, before spamming the council, some limitations to the usage of ALTS logged at the same time should be put in place. Edited by Passant the Weak

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[quote]if you think eon is 'protected' because of his supporter status, then what about sasha????[/quote]

I'm sorry to answer your post!!But Sasha didn't do anything..She asked with her alt to Santa and got ignored,and understood it wrongly in my opinion..And we all expected some super special attention on Christmas and got dissapointed a little bit.

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[quote](hmm..I wonder how can I abuse you dear Peace :D). [/quote]

[color=#808080][i]I could think of a thing or two.... :P[/i][/color]

[quote]if you think eon is 'protected' because of his supporter status, then what about sasha???? [/quote]
[quote]I'm sorry to answer your post!!But Sasha didn't do anything.[/quote]

[i][color=#808080]Sasha is one of the most paying supporters and she's been jailed more than once.[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]That's what Mur meant by that Ignnus[/color][/i]

[i][color=#808080]As for the complain against Eon's alts.[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]Alts should not be used that way, but you need to prove he is misusing them.[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]That's how it works, always has been.[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]You have certainty the abuse is a fact? Gather hard evidence that will convince Mur, the Council and people in general and present it. [/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]Don't hide behind first excuse (supporter bias! lol) you can think of.[/color][/i]

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[quote]Don't hide behind first excuse (supporter bias! lol) you can think of.[/quote]
I'm not hiding behind anything...And I'm not a lawyer..I'm a player ,just go ask some veteran if Eon's doing it or not before insulting me.Or ask yourself

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Ignnus, why do you think everyone is insulting you? I mean, what did Shem say so that you will feel insulted?

Acting like "Oooh X did that bad bad thing, go ask Y cuz he knows everything about it and I don't." is not a way to fix stuff.

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[quote]Ignnus, why do you think everyone is insulting you? I mean, what did Shem say so that you will feel insulted?[/quote]

Now suddenly you know a lot about me?Read the first post if you want to see some real insults

Cause I'm not using a supporter bias.. he's using the alts that way.

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Far as the whole supporter argument goes....

When someone pays (actually pays, not just uses free credits to get it) a lot of money, that puts them on Mur's radar, yes. But what that means, is he is going to pay more attention to them whenever they come up, because he recognises them a bit more. That means, if they do anything wrong, he is LESS likely to let it slip by.

So yes, supporters do get special treatment. But until the spent credits shop opens, and outside Tombolas, that special treatment is not something anyone wishing to break the rules would want.

At any rate, I'm going to bring this matter to the CLC and see what advice we can give you here.

EDIT: Just as an additional, personal note... I have never seen any of Eon's alts do anything that contributes to them having a role. Without any role of their own, it is NOT POSSIBLE to argue that they are not there just as an extention of the main, and thereby as a means to alt abuse.
However, this is obviously only the case if they haven't been taking efforts to have a role of their own (ie talking in chat, PMs, raising their own creatures, creating their own papers, competing in quests, etc). I have never observed them doing any of these things, but that doesn't mean they havent.
So, dst and Eon, before it even becomes necessary for them to provide any substantial evidence that those accounts are used for alt abuse, the onus is on YOU to provide evidence that those accounts have their own role, that they are developing.
But as I said, that is all my own personal opinion, and nothing official, and really just food for thought. Edited by Kyphis the Bard

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[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]From what I've seen (my observations only), Mur goes out of his way to not let money give privilege. If you spend money, he's more likely to watch you to make sure you behave yourself. [/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]I've seen many alts around over the years. Some of them were abused and the situations were dealt with and adjustments were made (ie not being able to attack your alts). Someday someone may make the wrong complaint on the wrong day and the button will get pushed. Then all the alts will go 'poof' and you won't be allowed any alts. Better to silently observe and gather your information than to make a big show without a mountain to back you up.[/font][/color]

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[quote]When someone pays (actually pays, not just uses free credits to get it) a lot of money, that puts them on Mur's radar, yes. But what that means, is he is going to pay more attention to them whenever they come up, because he recognises them a bit more. That means, if they do anything wrong, he is LESS likely to let it slip by.[/quote]

[i][color=#808080]from what I've experienced it's not like that at all.[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]I've been a subscriber from like maybe my 3rd month in MD (don't remember exactly) and still after something like a year of playing Mur confused me with Shara :))[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080](actually not only he. Grido, Yrth, Sage and many others talked to me thinking I was Shara :P) [/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]I think now I've been around long enough to be recognized by all as me, it is not in any way because of my supporter status.[/color][/i]

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Kyphis, I have nothing to prove. It's like me making an alt to test a thing and once I am done with it I simply let it "rot" somewhere. Do I NEED to have a role for it if I wish to log in once in a while just because I can? Is this really what you're saying?

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Nope. But Eon's alts are logged in regularly, and travel around a lot. Unlike what you just expressed, which is dead alts, Eon's alts are very much active. They just don't do anything that distinguishes them from Eon's main.

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[quote name='dst' timestamp='1325801187' post='99859']
Kyphis, I have nothing to prove. It's like me making an alt to test a thing and once I am done with it I simply let it "rot" somewhere. Do I NEED to have a role for it if I wish to log in once in a while just because I can? Is this really what you're saying?
[/quote]
If you were in Eon's situation I would just ask you the same question I asked him above. They are fairly simple, and do not force you to tell about a role or whatever. Just state that you are not using ALTs to help main.

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I don't have the time to play. He does.Maybe he tests the viscosity or ap or <insert reason here> with his alts. So don't give me that BS that I have to prove something. Have you heard of innocent until proved guilty? I was under the impression that prosecutors need to prove that someone is guilty. Isn't that how justice works?

So, to summarize: until proven otherwise, everyone is innocent. Sorry guys but you're wrong and you only show that you're doing what you have been accusing me for years: witch hunt! So you're no better.

Have fun. I don't think I will be posting on this thread unless I see some good arguments and some real proofs. The rest is just rain water Edited by dst

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Actually the burden of proof is on all of you. I'm innocent until proven guilty.

My alts are antisocial and don't fight. Being antisocial and not interested in fighting doesn't mean you don't deserve to be in this game. My alts feel connected to certain area's so they walk around them. That's how I enjoy playing these characters, which isn't against the rules.

The CLC means nothing to me. Pretend to matter all you want, as far as I'm aware your decisions aren't official.

This will probably be my last post. I've said all I needed to or wanted to with these last two posts. The council or Mur can email me if they want, I'm fine debating with them whether my accounts have broken any rules for moving around.

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I have alts and I don't use them to benefit my main.

I have alts and I do use them to benefit my main.

I put these two together. But think about it. Who will go in public and admit the second only? Everybody will say the first. Until they get caught with proofs.

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[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325803341' post='99872']
You know it I know it..what's to debate?
[/quote]
The proof. Simply knowing something isn't enough, even in real world.

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Something that needs to be addressed is what does the term "benefit" include? Does it refer to just monetary values? Or does it include information?

Because, the way I see it, Eon is perfectly in his right to use alts to gather information. How many of you speak on YIM? MSN? Or any other IM service? Do you roleplay in such ways? Or do you act freely? Because, to be honest, any OOC means to communicate is essentially the same thing as what Eon is doing. You are using an OOC means to gather information, that then in turn benefits your main. Why? Information. Eon just does it through the game. It doesn't give him any tangible benefit, or a super advantage over others. Its not like you can't do it yourself. So whats the big fuss?

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