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Muratus del Mur

Spent credits shop list

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Again, for those that are confused what all this is about, it means that all credits that ever reached you will count as 1 gift for each 200credits you have/had regardless of how you got them (gift, bonuses, rewards, freecredits, purchased)

My question is this: What happens about credits on other accounts?

 

Near all my credits spent were to be able to give gifts/rewards to people throughout my time here. Now, not all the gifts I wanted to give were available through just one account, therefore I needed to use credits on other accounts.

 

Sasha Lilias has, at this time, spent 1208 credits, but add on the amounts from other accounts, such as Sashas Presence (which comes to above 900 credits), I (as a spender on the game in general) would have doubled this?

 

This isn't about greed, as many of you would see it, as I am very grateful for this! But as I see it, we are being rewarded for our supporting as players, not so much characters (in this case)? 

Edited by Sasha Lilias

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And on what account would you like to recive the tickets? Does alt abuse ring a bell? No? Yes?

 

Well yeah, some new Lib army plus 5$ free per account equals loads of money and abuse, but I don't see reason to ban merging of credits on alts if certain amount of money was paid, like in Sasha's presence?

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the fast answer is that the tickets will be given to any account exceeding 1000 credits, for now, with intent to give them to anyone exceeding 200 once this sistem is fully automated. now it would be too time consuing to do it manually for everyone exceeding 200, you understand.

 

If you have 100 accounts each with 5 credits, it can't count as a total of 500credits. Doing that means that it will be too easy to abuse, because you can count in that any free credits given automatically, count free credits you could get daily, and so on. I thought such things are OBVIOUS. 

 

There might be indeed cases of people that spend large amounts on a couple of accouts without exceeding 1000 on each..that is true. I might find a solution to that...thinking of it now, this is what comes to mind:

 

any spent credits exceeding a certain (LARGE) ammout could be transfered from one account/alt to a main. This process will be done manually..so i am thinking to put this limit at 500 spent credits. UNSPENT credits won't be trasferable, ..i dont know why, but i think its less probable to become subject of abuse if i make only spent credits transferable. Please correct me if i am wrong or come with better options. Also, limits like max 2 alts to be summed up, would be good.

 

I don't want to leave an open gate for abuse, but i also don't want to deny spent credits tickets to people that really purchased them in good faith. There is no "rule" to tell you should only buy tickets on one account, and the tickets are aimed for the person, not just for the account...as Sasha pointed out.

 

 

It also depends on how many such cases there are. We might be talking of just one person here, in that case i can keep this decision on  case/by/case basis.

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Mur mailed me the SQL used, I am under the impression its slightly wrong, This would be the revised list if I am correct, which includes Eon.
 

playername | ID | Active Days | Tickets | Tickets Used
Zleiphneir 77300 1556 10 0
Nava 184261 521 10 0
Ailith 80963 986 9 0
*Shemhazaj* 143975 1712 8 2
Ratbert 198665 905 7 0
Jolla 217374 905 7 0
Menhir 202298 1215 7 0
Azull 202015 1256 7 1
Tal 214701 1001 7 0
Kyphis 104972 1764 7 1
darkraptor 193670 1184 6 0
Handy Pockets 136253 1510 6 1
Dayredeemer 109921 866 6 1
Manda 182380 1212 6 0
BigC 10213 336 6 0
Princess Katt 202952 802 5 0
duxie 208462 729 5 0
Yoshi 169242 604 5 1
Lady Aster 10080 591 5 0
Shoeps 12996 1053 5 0
MRG 38304 641 5 0
Junior 43448 1846 5 0
BlackThorn 54807 420 5 0
Mystic 104274 995 5 1
Akasha 1014 2175 5 0
sasha lilias 148016 743 5 1
lashtal 221376 969 5 0
Eon 67640 1182 4 2

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Ah, I see. Thought 5 was  the total of tickets I'd had and that I'd used 1/5.

 

My mistake!.

 

Yes, to clarify it is indeed 5 current tickets and 1 used already.


If anyone else takes exception, Or feels that it hasnt calculated their values correctly you can PM me.

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the fast answer is that the tickets will be given to any account exceeding 1000 credits, for now, with intent to give them to anyone exceeding 200 once this sistem is fully automated. now it would be too time consuing to do it manually for everyone exceeding 200, you understand.

 

If you have 100 accounts each with 5 credits, it can't count as a total of 500credits. Doing that means that it will be too easy to abuse, because you can count in that any free credits given automatically, count free credits you could get daily, and so on. I thought such things are OBVIOUS. 

 

There might be indeed cases of people that spend large amounts on a couple of accouts without exceeding 1000 on each..that is true. I might find a solution to that...thinking of it now, this is what comes to mind:

 

any spent credits exceeding a certain (LARGE) ammout could be transfered from one account/alt to a main. This process will be done manually..so i am thinking to put this limit at 500 spent credits. UNSPENT credits won't be trasferable, ..i dont know why, but i think its less probable to become subject of abuse if i make only spent credits transferable. Please correct me if i am wrong or come with better options. Also, limits like max 2 alts to be summed up, would be good.

 

I don't want to leave an open gate for abuse, but i also don't want to deny spent credits tickets to people that really purchased them in good faith. There is no "rule" to tell you should only buy tickets on one account, and the tickets are aimed for the person, not just for the account...as Sasha pointed out.

 

 

It also depends on how many such cases there are. We might be talking of just one person here, in that case i can keep this decision on  case/by/case basis.

I'd have to object to combining credit values for multiple accounts - It is a bit too much like alt abuse.

On the other hand, if the account that the credits value was being taken from was "permanently" locked, that should get rid of the abuseability. This would let people who have invested cash into an account they no longer use to still benefit from their contribution to the game.

 

If the alt is still going to be played as a regular account, then anything earn't from the shop that is account specific should remain so and not go to a different account, as per the alt abuse rules.

 

So anyone who has an alt they want to keep useing and have invested a lot of cash in (I am in this situation myself) can still benefit from the shop and enhance their alt account; and anyone who has an alt they DON'T want to play that has a significant investment can still profit, but at the expense of removal of access to that account (to prevent alt abuse). Would still need a minimal value before transfer and locking was considered.

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I'd have to object to combining credit values for multiple accounts - It is a bit too much like alt abuse.

On the other hand, if the account that the credits value was being taken from was "permanently" locked, that should get rid of the abuseability. This would let people who have invested cash into an account they no longer use to still benefit from their contribution to the game.

 

If the alt is still going to be played as a regular account, then anything earn't from the shop that is account specific should remain so and not go to a different account, as per the alt abuse rules.

 

So anyone who has an alt they want to keep useing and have invested a lot of cash in (I am in this situation myself) can still benefit from the shop and enhance their alt account; and anyone who has an alt they DON'T want to play that has a significant investment can still profit, but at the expense of removal of access to that account (to prevent alt abuse). Would still need a minimal value before transfer and locking was considered.

 

How can you abuse it? Just becuase you personally dont think its good doesnt mean its not valid. I feel that a case by case basis would work fine. Its not automated and we will decide on it ourselves.

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Abuse is quite possible - say for example someone has run an alt for a long time, but is getting bored with it. Suddenly, Tokens are introduced. Someone offers that player to put credits onto that alt in exchange for a large portion of those credits getting used to put tokens onto their creatures.

 

Do that a couple times and you are looking at a couple hundred credits with no alt abuse occuring - no payment or proceeds of payment went to an account of the player other than the one it was generated on.

 

There are multiple threads in the marketplace to this exact effect right now.

 

How are you going to track it? are you going to be the one to go through all their credits usage, determine the percent of credits spent on tokens? How about tracking how many of those creatures that recieved tokens remained in that players inventory, or the speed with which they where transferred? Or better yet, how are you going to determine that the creatures that where tokened where not purchased by the tokener, tokened to raise value, and then resold? Or originated with the tokener and then sold to create real profits?

 

If that's something you want to go through than by all means, go for it - but I can assure you there will be a lot more accounts than you expect. Hell, I could even apply for it! (I wouldn't, because I consider that abuse as stated by the rules, but I know I would qualify) I even have recollection of certain higher authority people being involved in such services, although I won't name-names as I haven't relocated hard evidence (not going to make an accusation, even if no crime is involved, without being certain)

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Abuse is quite possible - say for example someone has run an alt for a long time, but is getting bored with it. Suddenly, Tokens are introduced. Someone offers that player to put credits onto that alt in exchange for a large portion of those credits getting used to put tokens onto their creatures.

 

Do that a couple times and you are looking at a couple hundred credits with no alt abuse occuring - no payment or proceeds of payment went to an account of the player other than the one it was generated on.

 

There are multiple threads in the marketplace to this exact effect right now.

 

How are you going to track it? are you going to be the one to go through all their credits usage, determine the percent of credits spent on tokens? How about tracking how many of those creatures that recieved tokens remained in that players inventory, or the speed with which they where transferred? Or better yet, how are you going to determine that the creatures that where tokened where not purchased by the tokener, tokened to raise value, and then resold? Or originated with the tokener and then sold to create real profits?

 

If that's something you want to go through than by all means, go for it - but I can assure you there will be a lot more accounts than you expect. Hell, I could even apply for it! (I wouldn't, because I consider that abuse as stated by the rules, but I know I would qualify) I even have recollection of certain higher authority people being involved in such services, although I won't name-names as I haven't relocated hard evidence (not going to make an accusation, even if no crime is involved, without being certain)

 

I see no issue with people paying money into MD. We should be thanking them for paying for the servers, something that I cannot do because I lack the funds, Hell I think this is exactly the people who should be getting these special things. Am I sad im not eligible? Yes. But without these players I cannot do my job because there will be no server.

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I see no issue with people paying money into MD. We should be thanking them for paying for the servers, something that I cannot do because I lack the funds, Hell I think this is exactly the people who should be getting these special things. Am I sad im not eligible? Yes. But without these players I cannot do my job because there will be no server.

I completely agree, that's why I made a suggestion for an alternative system when I stated my misgivings about the proposition.

 

If your accounts are going to stay active and separate, then they should abide by the same rules as everyone else re alt abuse. Unlike in the real world, paying does not give you the privilege to ignore the rules. If you don't want the alt account anymore, that is fine it would be fair to transfer the credit value over - but your decision not to use that account anymore is going to be enforced.

 

Either way, any alt abuse is (largely) avoided, and people who are eligible for getting rewards are able to get them still, for all eligible accounts. Being a paying player in MD does not give you exemptions or authority. You still have to respect the same rules.

Edited by Kyphis the Bard

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I will issue a series of items that will value 200 spent/purchased credits each. What we will do later with these tickets i don't know yet, but this is a first step to revive the spent credits shop. Once these items are given, they could be used for a limited access treasury, similar to the drach cave, where i could place top value items to pick from. Again, for those that are confused what all this is about, it means that all credits that ever reached you will count as 1 gift for each 200credits you have/had regardless of how you got them (gift, bonuses, rewards, freecredits, purchased)

 

....

 

The items will be UNTRANSFERABLE for obvious reasons.

 

 

the fast answer is that the tickets will be given to any account exceeding 1000 credits, for now, with intent to give them to anyone exceeding 200 once this sistem is fully automated. now it would be too time consuing to do it manually for everyone exceeding 200, you understand.

 

If you have 100 accounts each with 5 credits, it can't count as a total of 500credits. Doing that means that it will be too easy to abuse, because you can count in that any free credits given automatically, count free credits you could get daily, and so on. I thought such things are OBVIOUS. 

 

So, there are 3 things :

 - each 200$ spent grants you one gift / item

 - items will be UNTRANSFERABLE

 - granting the gifts will be done automatically in the future

 

1. I don't understand why the items should be "UNTRANSFERABLE". You earn an item you should be able to gift it to others.

2. abuses for this should be allowed in this case in limits as there are money earned by one person with hard work either by free credits (and 200$ will take a really really really long time) or by real money

 

 

So, except the fact that we are indeed talking about possible abuses & alts, I don't see what't the problem .

If you have invested in an alt, you will be able to collect the gift once it is done automatically.

 

 

So, to all those that are in top : Thank you for your support and enjoy your items.

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So, because of the possibility that a few might try to use alts to abuse this, the rest of us should miss out? It you want to talk about fairness then where is the fairness in that? Some people, such as myself, (yes I use myself purely because I can), spend huge amounts of credits on the game to help others and the game itself.

 

Yes, there are obvious ways of abusing this rule, such as the "Lib Effect", but tokening? I can safely say I have tokened creatures for other people, does it make it wrong that you're helping someone whilst still supporting? Ok, so they pay for the tokens themselves, but you're still losing what you yourself could have had. It's exactly the same as selling creatures with tokens, except you're helping to support the game instead of your own pockets of gold.

 

I never once knew that this "Spent credits" list would come into action, nor did I once expect to be rewarded for what I did. But I see it "unfair" that I could have spent $2600+ on one account, had I known about it and just wanted the rewards, but because I didn't know, and wanted to be kind, I spent them all on different accounts. Yet players that have spent the same amount of credits purely on themselves get rewarded twice as much?

 

Why shouldn't I ask for at least a portion on my alts to be counted as this is a reward for the player? This just shows that each case is individual and should be treated as such.

 

As I said before, this is generous of Mur in any case, but fairness should be implemented.

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Personally I would say "You wish to argue about this, you get nothing at all" luckily for you Mur is the one arranging this and not me.

 

Greed is poor. You will get the items over all your accounts when the system is implemented unilaterally so be patient since everyone will be getting one item per $200 so you wont lose out.


As a final note for you sasha, have you considered that there were times that, if you had only put the money into one account, you wouldnt have been able to use it since you were in jail and such?

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Personally I would say "You wish to argue about this, you get nothing at all" luckily for you Mur is the one arranging this and not me.

 

Greed is poor. You will get the items over all your accounts when the system is implemented unilaterally so be patient since everyone will be getting one item per $200 so you wont lose out.


As a final note for you sasha, have you considered that there were times that, if you had only put the money into one account, you wouldnt have been able to use it since you were in jail and such?

 

I agree on the greed situation, as much as you may say otherwise. I asked a general question about money on alts, this caused a discussion and I answered back. I don't expect it for just myself, I'd expect it for no one or everyone.

 

I've been in the realm for over four years (or something like that), I highly doubt I spent even 3 months of that time in jail. I'd have had plenty of opportunity. Especially considering the MDShop still works in jail, I'd have just used it for personal gain.

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I agree on the greed situation, as much as you may say otherwise. I asked a general question about money on alts, this caused a discussion and I answered back. I don't expect it for just myself, I'd expect it for no one or everyone.

 

I've been in the realm for over four years (or something like that), I highly doubt I spent even 3 months of that time in jail. I'd have had plenty of opportunity. Especially considering the MDShop still works in jail, I'd have just used it for personal gain.

 

Would you be happier if I said that I would script it so that everyone over $200 gets their item given to them now rather than Mur doing only the first $1000?

 

Since the script would only take 20 minutes or so, Im quite happy to do this.

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So, there are 3 things :

 - each 200$ spent grants you one gift / item

 - items will be UNTRANSFERABLE

 - granting the gifts will be done automatically in the future

 

1. I don't understand why the items should be "UNTRANSFERABLE". You earn an item you should be able to gift it to others.

2. abuses for this should be allowed in this case in limits as there are money earned by one person with hard work either by free credits (and 200$ will take a really really really long time) or by real money

 

I think he meant that the tickets are not transferable once you buy something with them then the item will be normal

 

Miq

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How about, if someone wants to transfer their purchased credits, either spent/unspent totals, or both, to another account, they can do so only once, but then have the account locked from making any further subscriptions/money orders through that account? This way they can still vote if they want to for the free credits and all, but the abuse gets limited.

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